New Tank planning

[medic29]

I am looking at putting together a new tank. It will be a 60 gal reef tank. I plan to move the contents of my 30 gal tank into it when the time comes, but first I need to figure some things out.

I want a sump setup for this tank and plan on moving the heater & skimmer to the sump. I was thinking about a 20gal tank for the sump. Does this sound okay? Do I need to put some live rock in the sump or just increase the live rock in the tank? I have about 30# live rock and 40# live sand in my current tank.

What size return pump would I want to use? Would it be a good idea to also set up closed system to help with water flow?

I am not planning on putting a refugium in the sump as I plan to have it next to the tank and be gravity fed into the display tank, but should I pump water to it from the sump or the display tank.

Then there is the lighting question. I currently have an Orbit PC lights with 96 watt 6500k and 10,000k combo bulb and 96 watt actenic bulb. Should I switch the lighting system? Should I go to MH? (which is still very confusing). I would like to have enough lighting to start playing with hard corals sometime in the future, right now I have a lot of soft corals, a clam, and a few fish.

Sorry, this is long, I'm just a beginner and would appreciate the advice from those that have been doing this longer and have already learn from the school of hard knocks. I could ask these questions from the LFS, but sometimes you wonder what is their motivation for the advice, ya know??

Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Rick

[Horace]

a few notes:

- The bigger the sump the better, there is NO limit as to how big you can make it.

- flow through the sump, especially if a fuge is present should be low, flow should be achieved by other means as the filters/skimmer/fuge can not effectively handle high flow.

-Whats the purpose of using a separate fuge? Im not sure I understand the point....its just one more thing making the look of the tank less "clean". Personally prefer to have as much stuff hidden as possible, be it in the stand or a fish room.

-As far as MH lighting, that is a choice you are going to have to make. CF can work for many corals and even "work" for some low light SPS if they are high in the tank, however, I personally dont much care for the look, output, or efficiency of them. MH IMO the best lighting to use because it is very powerful, and is versatile. For a tank your size I would use a couple 175w MH or even possibly a couple 250w MH.

Good luck :)

[Vitaly]

How ironic...I am doing the same thing today!!! I currently have everything living in a 30 gallon...and am moving everything into my old 55 gallon (UPS should be delivering my stand any minute).

Medic is your 60 gallon tank already drilled? I will have a 20 gallon tall that will fit into my stand...and that I was thinking of using as a sump.

But my tank is not drilled and this is not something that I want to attempt yet or do alone. If you are drilling yourself...let me know as I would gladly like to watch how its done and offer extra hands for assistance (I live in Champaign as well).

<B><I>Does anybody here know a safe and unobtrusive way to set-up a sump without drilling?</B></I> Are there other ways to allow for gravity/overflow to get back into the sump without drilling?

[LegoZ81]

Horace, Seperate gravity drained refugiums are supposed to be better and supporting an area of refuge for pods and provide a non lethal way for then to get back into the display.

[LegoZ81]

Vitaly,
If the tank is not full i'd HIGHLY recommend getting it drilled, there are several people in Bloomington-Normal that can do this for you.

[hounddog01]

There are hang on the back overflows you can purchase. If you use an internal pump in the sump you can achieve the sump without drilling one hole. I like the drilled tank and sump for simlicity but if you do not want to drill anything you can still have the same thing.

[Dave Dunbar]

Like Horace said go with the biggest sump you can saves money in the long run. Its good to increase the LR in tank and you can put more in the sump the more the marryer? Another thing fill the sump with Cheto (it will limit the macro in the main tank) MH lighting is the best I had CF on my 30 and was OK then got MH for my 120 what a difference!! You want very high flow in the main tank and most people say to run 10 x the volume. I run a mag 12 in my 120 and seem to have very good flow and good flow thru my sump. Just make sure that you have enough heaters to keep the total volume of water even. Good luck and keep us posted
Dave:thumbsup:

[Vitaly]

<B>Lego</B> - the tank is not filled...still waiting for UPS...and watching Big Lebowski to pass the time. Thanks for the offer to help drill the tank...I may take you up on it after some more research.

<B>Hounddog</B> - thanks for the suggestion. I am going to pause Lebowski and read up on these.

<B>Medic</B> hope I am not hijacking your thread...and that this info benefits both of us. Otherwise I can move those over to a new thread. Additionally, I found some sites with discussion about DIY hang-on overflows. If they it seem like a good way to go...and you are interested we could maybe try building together (unless your tank is drilled).

Has anybody used a hang-on overflow?
Are there any inherent risks to them...or major shortcomings in efficiency compared to a drilled sump?

[hounddog01]

I have a hang on on my 29. It works ok, it has the overflow tube in it. I like the tubeless but you need to run an aqualifter on it to make sure the siphon does not break.

[lcashman]

I currently use a hang-on overflow.
I have had good luck with the overflows that I've used.

The only overflow I would caution you with is the CPR. It can become plugged quite easily and overflow the tank.

The major problem I see is the loss of space and having to siphon the air out when I clean the U tubes.

If I were to do it all over again, I would go for a drilled tank. That way if you want to add a closed loop/another sump/link tanks/etc, you can drill a couple of more holes and you're done.

As for the DIY overflow, IMO I would not use one. This is a vital piece for water movement from the tank to the sump. If it fails, you're looking at a big clean up. Another factor to consider is the gph of the DIY overflow. It would vary depending on how the overflow was built. Once again, another variable that I will not chance to reduce cost.

Anyways, that my 2 cents.

Leland

[Vitaly]

<B>Leland</B> you are definetly right. As I read more I realize how complex the physics of these things are and building/handywork is not my strong-point.

Additionally, I have read several people comment that the CPR brand is to be avoided. Are there any recommendation for brands are worth buying.

On a side note, I agree that having a drilled tank is the way to go...but since the bottom of my tank is tempered that would be out of the question. And personally, since my tank currently resides with me in a small apt...I would do want to deal with all the plumbing and PVC tubing that would results from drilling the back or sides.

[LegoZ81]

Just take the plung and drill ;)

[LegoZ81]

Hrm wish you were in B-town so you could come check mine out.

[Vitaly]

<B>Lego</B> I swear the next tank will definetly be drilled. For now I think I will go with the hang-on overflow, plus this way I can transfer all my critters today and add the overflow later...and not have to to arrange a drilling session.

Again huge thank you for offering assistance and your time on that.

Regarding seeing your tank...I would live to and will definetly take you up on it next time I am around your neighborhood.

And I am not "dissin" the drilled in the back/side tanks with PVC. I remember the thread with details on "<B>BennyZ's</B>" set-up, that you assisted with. Solid tank. but because of who my tanks is situated...in my 500'ish sq ft apt...it just would not look good.

[trendle]

Any of the U-tube type overflows work the same. Everyone pushes Lifereef but they all are good. I have a no-name u-tube overflow and have had no problems.

[cioutlaw]

Something to think about with a sump is not to go too tall because it makes it difficult to work in & hard to get equipment in & out because of being crammed in under the main tank. & I agree the sump can never be too big. My sump of choice is a 40 breeder

Personnally the hang on overflows scare the hell out of me, siphon breaks your going to have a mess that could cost $1000s I wouldnt do anything other than drill. When my stand doors are closed there is no exposed pvc & nothing hanging on the edge & gives a clean look.

Vitaly didnt you get some of the GSP I was giving away? Feel free to come by & check out the sump/overflow some time.

[Vitaly]

<B>Chris (cioutlaw)</B> you are definetly right about the siphon break and subsequent spill concern. I figure that 55 gallons will easily saturate my tiny living room. I suppose the only saving grace is that nobody here or at other sites has complained about this happening.

And yes...I do remember your tank [pausing to wipe drool from chin]...and asking you about your sump set-up and all. If I recall it was a reef ready tank and was drilled through the bottom. I think you had some plumbing that was on the far side close too the wall...mostly out of sight.

Well I will continue reading, researching and weighing out the options.

<I>Is there anyone in the Chambana area who has experience drilling tanks and is confident doing it?</I>

I have time at the moment as my 55 gallon set-up will be delayed for an indefinate amount of time. It seems that UPS was a bit rough with my stand. It arrived today, broken at two corners. I am awaiting for them to come out and "investigate" my complaint.

[lcashman]

I understand everyone's concern about the siphon break, but I have not had that happen in the short time I've had salt tanks (3 yrs).
I have used three different manufacturer's overflows. Proclear, marineland SOS, and a quietflo (made by hurricane filters).

Basically, it boils down to your taste and whether you feel comfortable with either the overflow or drilling the tank.

[medic29]

Sucks about you stand. I know the anticipation was probably almost unbearable. All of this information has been great.

[humbugy]

i wouldnt try to drill a 55g, they tend to temper all sides of the tank, give all glass or perfecto a call and ask them.
i use the marineland s.o.s overflows on two of my tanks, never had a siphon break, (3 yrs) just run as close as 600 gph as you can.
the other option is to use an aqualifter to make sure no air bubbles build up.

[cioutlaw]

Im sure the hang on style works, just not going to take the chance.

Vitaly..Chris? Im Jason:) no plumbing outside my stand except the reactor stuff. Sailfin can drill tanks, they did my sump. Here are some pictures for some ideas.

http://www.hartdragracing.com/DSC01531.JPG

http://www.hartdragracing.com/DSC01532.JPG

http://www.hartdragracing.com/DSC01533.JPG

[Vitaly]

Okay boys...I took another look at my tank and there is a red sticker on the bottom that reads "Tempered Glass...Do Not Drill." So does that apply to the entire tank or just the bottom piece of glass?

<B>humbugy</B> you make a good suggestion...I will contact All-Glass tomorrow to get this clarified with the company.

<B>Jason</B> sorry for confusing your name. Did not realize that Sailfin drilled. Thanks for the info...I will keep that in mind.

[cioutlaw]

Not sure about if the sides are drilled or not. If you know what brand it is call or e-mail & ask.

"Jason sorry for confusing your name." No problem

[medic29]

Vitaly, Sailfin does not drill; they take the tank across the street to the glass company and have them drill it....this from management.

[cioutlaw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8330751#post8330751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by medic29
Vitaly, Sailfin does not drill; they take the tank across the street to the glass company and have them drill it....this from management.

Didnt realize that, knew they bought glass..thought they drilled themselves.

[Dave Dunbar]

cioutlaw
what are the controls on the side of your stand in the pic of the calc reactor? I see the wavy sea controlers above them, but dont know what the black box is.
Thanks Dave :confused:

[cioutlaw]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8331285#post8331285 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dave Dunbar
cioutlaw
what are the controls on the side of your stand in the pic of the calc reactor? I see the wavy sea controlers above them, but dont know what the black box is.
Thanks Dave :confused:

The 3 black boxes are timers for the lights & below that is just a big power strip.

[Benny Z]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8330711#post8330711 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Vitaly
Okay boys...I took another look at my tank and there is a red sticker on the bottom that reads "Tempered Glass...Do Not Drill." So does that apply to the entire tank or just the bottom piece of glass?

if the edges of the tank are smooth rounded edges, then it is all tempered. if they are hard edges, they are not tempered. i'm going to guess just the bottom is tempered...

[ChemE]

If it is an AGA 55 the bottom is the only tempered pane. They keep this info on their website...

http://www.all-glass.com/layerone/newfaq/#41

Sailfin has the AGA catolog online and the last page calls out which tanks have tempered bottoms. To the best of my knowledge, AGA doesn't use tempered sides.

http://www.sailfin.com/Parts/AGCatalog.pdf

[LegoZ81]

I got a 55 gallon tank from MA that was labeled ALL PANELS TEMPERED DO NOT DRILL. I think it was an all glass as that is typically all
Sam stocks, but I do not know for sure
I know they label them differently though.
Good luck

[pleaselaunchme]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8330374#post8330374 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by humbugy
i wouldnt try to drill a 55g, they tend to temper all sides of the tank, give all glass or perfecto a call and ask them.


My understanding on this is for All-glass (not sure on other manufacturers), that the front and back are tempered in their aquarium kits, but when you just buy the tank alone, the bottom only is. Again though, call to be sure.

Ben

[ChemE]

Agree. I think it is just the back but call for sure before drilling. Better safe than sorry.