Help Verifying HLLE on Tang

[thefireking]

I am new to the hobby, and have a 1.5" Royal Blue Tang that I have had in my tank for 3 weeks. I think the tang has HLLE, but would like more vetran opinions and suggestions for treatment.

The tang has been eating Emerald Entre since entering the tank, and once the clowns were introduced, marine cuisine & Cyclo-peez were added as well. The Tang likes the Cyclo-peez the best.

The tank is a 24G JBJ NanoCube with 40lbs LS, 15lbs LR, clean up crew, 2 Juvinile (>1") False Perc. Clowns (introduced to tank 3 days ago), and 1 1" Green Ricordia coral.

SG 1.024
Ph 8.0
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20
Temp 79-82

<IMG SRC=http://rskvs.com/SWRA/K00_8740(Cropped).JPG>

Any help is appreciated.

Ryan

[rljlll]

that tank is way to small for a tang you need at leat a 80-90 gal tank for that guy

[thefireking]

Thanks. It will be moving into a much larger tank when my new home is ready this fall. For now, any ideas on my original question?

[truthdesigns]

i thought tangs like to scratch themselfs on rocks and the glass

[thefireking]

I don't think I ever seen it scratching. It played dead for the 1st hour or so when first added to tank, but that was all. It has grown from 1" to 1.5" and is eating very well.

[evolust]

Its grown half an inch in 3 weeks! youd better get a bigger tank quick! It looks like HLLE to me but I'm no expert on HLLE. I think it should be put into a hospital tank and treated. From what i hear the disease can be stopped but the signs on the body and head will always be there. GL!

[thefireking]

From what I've read, HLLE could be from practically anything from poor water quality to missing trace amounts of iodine... Has anybody brought a fish back to health with HLLE and have any suggestions? With so many causes, I am afraid to commit to any treatment without determination of the cause.

[Paul B]

It's hard to tell from the picture. HLLE usually leaves white patches and they are not usually circular like that. Is there any marks on the other side?

[thefireking]

The marks on the other side are a mirror image. It isn't exact, but pretty close.

[Paul B]

Although hippo tangs almost always get HLLE if you have them in captivity yours does not look like it to me. And if it is not that, I have no Idea what it is.
For HLLE I would give the fish vitamin A. You can do that by buying some cod liver oil and floating some flake or freeze dried food (whatever he eats) Feed it to the fish once or twice a week. It will leave a little oil slick which will disapate in an hour or so and your skimmer will stop working for a while.
You should be doing that for tangs anyway.
Paul

[thefireking]

The Tang is eating Emerald Entre frozen cubes. The LFS told us to add a little water(RO) and mix it into a liquid that we could use a syrenge to feed with. The Tang has always eaten all of the food provided. Are you saying to add cod liver oil to that? If so, how much?

[paljets]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7811966#post7811966 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thefireking
From what I've read, HLLE could be from practically anything from poor water quality to missing trace amounts of iodine... Has anybody brought a fish back to health with HLLE and have any suggestions? With so many causes, I am afraid to commit to any treatment without determination of the cause.

I have successfully brought fish back from HLLE with a change in diet.. Are you feeding brocolli? If not, start :)

Just put a stalk of it on a clip in the tank.. I use the organic stuff, cause I don't trust the pesticides they use..

Also, you might try soaking the food in "Selcon" I've used it before too..

--paul

[thefireking]

Thanks paljets & Paul B.

paljets, is Selcon redily available at a LFS?

Also, did your fish that healed ever look the same, or were they scarred? I am just wondering how to tell if it is getting better, because other than the markings, it looks and is acting great.

[paljets]

They were a bit scared, but it faded over time.. I think Pets Inc has Selcon.. Not sure about any place else..

Basically, you're looking for vitamins.. To soak in the food...

--paul

[thefireking]

Thanks a bunch.

Ryan

[aztbs]

ATR carries Zoe-con, which is the same thing, just the Kent brand

[Philwd]

AA also carries it. You might have to ask them for it.

[Paul B]

I have also cured fish of HLLE and if they have it for a while they stay scarred but as was said it fades a little. I use Selcon now almost every day, it was not always available. I still add Cod Liver Oil because fish in the sea eat other fish which are full of vitamin stored in their livers. Selcon is good but I also add the straight vitamin A.
Good luck.
Paul

[thefireking]

Thanks Paul B!

[sarahdae]

That looks like HLLE to me...it is following the same pattern as classic HLLE, just looks like the pits are a bit larger/more rounded.
Medication will not cure HLLE. I agree, try experimenting with good foods. Keep us posted if the HLLE fades, or seems to get better, and what you think helped.
Good luck!

[rljlll]

http://www.nosickfish.com/

[Paul B]

Rljlll I read that site and I don't know if I agree with the cause or the treatment. I persomally don't believe it is a protozoan, if it was it could easily be cured with copper which it is not. It does say it is a disease of the digestive tract which I think it is. I have controlled it with vitamin A which should have no effect on a protozoan. Of course it could be caused by a variety of things.
Sarahdae, you are correct, it looks like HLLE but not classic HLLE. The shape just does not look right to me.
Paul

[rljlll]

ok i just did a search and found that thought id share

[thefireking]

Thanks everybody for all the help. The Tang doesn't seem at all interested in the broccoli. What methods could I use to interest it in eating the broccoli?

Ryan

[Rayman380]

Your tank is to small for that fish. He will out grow it quickly and you will lose him.

[thefireking]

Rayman, your comment is redundant and already answered in the 3rd post. I am constructing a 800 gallon tank for my new home which will be done this fall.

[moore_rb]

Although it is not classified as a causal agent, there is typically one common denominator with HLLE outbreaks: water quality.

Are you doing frequent water changes with RO/DI water mixed with a quality salt mix? What are your nitrate levels?

Even a 1 inch Hippo tang in a 24g nano should be getting a minimum 10% water change every week if you expect it to be even moderately healthy. As adults, these are pelagic fish that rarely swim past the same location twice in nature.

Diet is also important. If he won't nip at broccoli, then try spinach leaves.

Water quality and diet seem to be the two strategies that save the most HLLE victims from their ultimate demise, but with the erosions on your fish extending all the way to the caudal base, I'd say the prognosis is grim for this fish ever moving into your new house.

Good luck. Hope I'm wrong.

[Paul B]

I have to change my opinion to it "definately" has HLLE. I diden't see the lesion extending to the tail. I only looked at the oval marks on it's face.
Paul

[thefireking]

Well, I appreciate the help guys. I will keep working with it as long as it lasts. I have been doing 25% water changes on a 2-week basis. I have been doing the changes with RO & a good salt mix (I don't recall the brand off the top of my head.)

The erosion on the lateral line was the first indication I ever had that something was wrong. It actually looked like minute bubbles attached to the Tang's side for the first couple of days. When the facial marks appeared, that's when I started posting here.


Thanks,

Ryan

[thefireking]

Well, Tang is still going strong & getting fat on new nori sheets. Never would eat broccoli or spinach, but took to nori, and began to eat alot. Used supplaments as well.

One of the Tang's facial marks has been greatly reduced, and the erosion along lateral line seems to be diminishing. So far, so good. Tang now comes to top of tank for feedings & is much happier, I think.

Thanks for all of the people who read the thread and responded with good info.

Ryan

[UberNoober]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7824590#post7824590 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by thefireking
I am constructing a 800 gallon tank for my new home which will be done this fall.

i just read thru this thread and I have 3 words.....pics...pics...pics.

Gonna look like seaworld in ur house.

BTW congrats on getting your fish healthy again.

[Doglover_50]

Team Frag, just how fragile is the health of hippo tangs? The cat at my LFS says that they stopped stocking because so much tougher to keep in terms of fragile health than other tangs. Say it ain't so, Dorey. Say it ain't so!!?? [generalizing from thefirekings experience here]