QT Tanks

[funloven]

I finally set up a QT Tank and I just re-read your article about QT Tanks and have a couple of questions:

1. When in use how often sould a water change be done?

2. Where do you get an Air-Driven Sponge filter from? I have been in several pet stores and have not seen one. Can I order one on-line from one of RCs Sponsors? Which one?

3. I am currently using an HOB filter system that uses a small filter cartridge. I would prefer the Air-Driven but if the HOB is all I can get what should I do with the cartridge between QT set-ups. You recommend running the Air-Driven in the sump. Can I just let the HOB cartridge lay in the sump?

Thanks for the help.

:rollface:

[Steven Pro]

1.) This will depend in large part to the water quality in the tank. If your biological fitler were damaged or not prepared properly beforehand, ammonia could be so problematic as to require daily 50% water changes. But, if everything is ok, a more modest 10% per week could be all that is necessary.

I would track pH, alkalinity, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate and watch for any trends.

2.) There are several models to chose from here, http://www.marinedepot.com/aquarium_filters_hagen_foam.asp?CartId=

You need an air pump and tubing as well with the above.

3.) It would be best to have the HOB filter operating somewhere on your system.

[funloven]

Thanks for the response and WEB page. This has prompted a couple more questions, please.


I'm guessing the single sponge Hagen would be sufficient for a 20 gal QT?

How long are the sponges good for? How long the HOB filter cartridges are good for? Indefinately?

That should do it (I hope).
:rollface:

[Steven Pro]

I would get the double. In this instance, bigger is better and the price difference is minor.

Sponge filters last practically indefinitely. Some fish munch on them and destroy them, but otherwise they are fine for a long time.

HOB filter cartridges are usually a combination mechanical (filter floss) and chemical (activated carbon) filter. They are generally no good after about a month because the activated carbon becomes used up and the filter floss plugged up.

[funloven]

Thanks so much for the help, Steven. I just found the mode of getting questions answered and it is great. :rollface:

[Steven Pro]

Glad to be of assistance!

[Depth]

Steven, how do I get to your forum? I was also looking to find your article on QT but I could not locate neither. Please help!
yana

[Steven Pro]

Here is a listing of all my Reefkeeping articles,
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/author/sp.php

My piece on quarantine was published in 2004.

[Depth]

Steven, I read your article on QT.

You seem to be saying that as long as you put an established filter on the QT, you can put it in operation right away. Do you mean the QT does not need to cycle?
I put the established filter from my main tank on the QT 10 days ago, and I am waiting for it to cycle (I am feeding the empty QT for that purpose), before I can put any fish. Is this unnecessary? If I have it running all the time as a QT, isn't it going to inevitably cycle at some point?

2) The reason I finally decided on the QT is that I had Ich infestation in my tank. 2 fish have died over the course of 3 months, both by means of secondary infections). I have 3 fish remaining (2 damsels, 1 watchman Goby). They all have had the white spots at some point but have been in perfect health for the past month (acquired immunity?).
My intention is to move them all to the QT and leave the main tank fishless for a month. But do I really need to move fish that show no symptoms? If the parasites don't consider those fish to be good hosts, aren't they going to die off even with the fish in the tank? (In this case I need not worry and can use the QT for new arrivals only).
What do you think?

3) I have different media in the QT filter, including PhosPure. However, I've read recently, that not only algae needs phosphate - beneficial bacteria needs it too. Can PhosPure kills my beneficial bacteria?

Your help would be vital!

Eternal Gratitude, Depth

[Steven Pro]

1.) You actually cycle filters, not tanks. By running a biological filter on the main display which you move over to quarantine after a month or more, you have in effect already cycled it.

If you keep the QT running 24/7 but doesn't have fish in it all the time, you will need to provide the bacteria with a source of ammonia for food. You cna do this buy using bottled, pure ammonia or extra fish food.

2.) Remove all the fishes to a QT and treat them. The fish may be safe enough not to succumb to the infestation but still carry a low number that could infect future additions.

I would leave the display fishless for 6-8 weeks.

3.) I have never heard of that before. I don't know whether or not it is true.

[Depth]

It was actually a quite interesting article. (It is originally about ponds but I think it lists some general points reg. the best conditions for nitrifying bacteria. While I would not necessarily approve of the product it was rallying for, I learned A LOT from the "Mistakes" section about the nitrifiers' needs ;-) It is also a very fun read!
I'd love to hear your opinion if you venture to read it. Here it is:

http://www.fritzpet.com/article_turbo_pg1.htm

[Depth]

Another thing: can medications kill your beneficial bacteria in the QT filter?

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7691455#post7691455 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Depth
It was actually a quite interesting article. (It is originally about ponds but I think it lists some general points reg. the best conditions for nitrifying bacteria. While I would not necessarily approve of the product it was rallying for, I learned A LOT from the "Mistakes" section about the nitrifiers' needs ;-) It is also a very fun read!
I'd love to hear your opinion if you venture to read it. Here it is:

http://www.fritzpet.com/article_turbo_pg1.htm Thanks for the link. I am reading it now.

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7691471#post7691471 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Depth
Another thing: can medications kill your beneficial bacteria in the QT filter? Sure, some can.

[fishtk75]

Steven Pro,
Can you tell me I read your ich I and II papers is there anything else to stop ich in a reef tank?
And someone said that all fish have ich some brake out and some live with it is that true that it in all fish hidden in there skin?

[Steven Pro]

It is an old aquarium myth that ich is ever present. It is false. Ich can be eradicated using proven treatments (copper, hyposalinity, or tank transfer) and kept out of a tank with strict quarantine protocols.

Unfortunately, there is no proven method to cure ich in a display.

[Steven Pro]

By the way, did you see my article on testing some of the "reef-safe" treatments?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/sp/index.php

I was less than impressed with a few. :(

[fishtk75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7699343#post7699343 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steven Pro
By the way, did you see my article on testing some of the "reef-safe" treatments?

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-12/sp/index.php

I was less than impressed with a few. :(

Thank you for your help.
Yes I read that and used kick-ick in main tank after I got all the fish out in to a QT with Hypo and cupramine and now waiting for time of 4-6 weeks to kill it off.
Did you do any test which one works better Ozone or UV?
What I need to know is do they work as they say to kill diseases,
and bad algaes?
What setup do you use in your tanks that works for you if you use ozone or UV?

How do you take care of red slime I use chemclean and killed it of but it comes back all the water number are at zero?

[Steven Pro]

Did you do any test which one works better Ozone or UV? No, I didn't perform or know of any direct comparison tests.
What I need to know is do they work as they say to kill diseases, and bad algaes? To some extent.
What setup do you use in your tanks that works for you if you use ozone or UV? I don't use either.
How do you take care of red slime I use chemclean and killed it of but it comes back all the water number are at zero? Nutrient control always works for me. Just because your tests read zero does not mean there are not nutrients in the water. Phosphate test kits are inherently limited and often give a false zero reading because of the various forms phosphate may take. Use of purified water, protein skimming, vegetable filtration, high quality salt mix, careful feeding and dosing, etc. are all necessary to keep nuisance "algae" in check.

[aly6764]

Thank you Stephen Pro,
I am trying to gear up for the task at hand...evacuating my fish and placing them in a QT for at least two months. Maybe I should give you a quick run-down of our entire experience. We purchased a home with a 500 gal. built-in the wall saltwater tank. Originally it was a fish only(aggressive, ie, a foxface, picasso trigger, a battered sailfin tang, and a clown trigger),decorated with the most hideous pink, blue and yellow fake coral on the planet, being treated regularly with copper to prevent algae growth and disease. Searching for a conscientious aquarium service brought us a fellow pilot who taught us how cruel the tank set-up was. We drained it, gave him the copper poisened fish and started over. The tank has been completely overhauled and set-up new( including polishing the acrylic ). In Jan. '06 we introduced 300-350#'s of new live rock, let that cook for approx. 6 wks., then placed an established 75#'s of live rock and a variety of corals and mushrooms and fish(My aquarium service owner was moving out of state and sold us the contents of his established 75 gal tank including the water and sand). I am going to list the original inhabitants.
- 2 large colonies of frogspawn
- 1 large leathery toadstool
- numerous button corals
- a colony of grape coral( not sure of actual name )
- 2 large branches of orange pulsing xenia
- lots of red and blue mushrooms
- a red bubble-tipped anemone hosting 2 percs.(Mr. & Miss)
- 1 blonde naso tang(Lilu)
- 1 mystery wrasse (Sid)
- 1 pink-spotted fairy wrasse (Mel)
- 1 hippo tang ( Lazarus) they actually hand-fed this little guy.
- snails and a conch

[aly6764]

all was well for about 6 weeks, then being eager to see a stocked tank and being dumb as @%&# about reefkeeping we purchased approx. 25 fish and polyps and corals and acclimated thm for 6 hours then put them straight in the tank. A week later all heck broke loose... go figure...we sat by and watched one after another fish struggle & die, I cried, I felt helpless, and distraught. It was one of the most gruesome displays of "will to live" I have encountered. Eventually, all of the fish died except my final 4. The entire tank has been flourishing for the past 3 months( my pulsing xenia is stocking tanks all over FL) With trepidation I am wantig to restock. Set-up a 24 G aquapod Nano with water from the 500 Gal. It has been 2 months since the ich episode, but the survivors were never quarantined, sO I guess I am going to start over. will my final 4 be O.K. in a 24 gal. tank while I let the display tank cure? Sorry so long, but I think the history is crucial to setting up a successful, flourishing reef system. Please help and thank yu in advance for all your help and knowledge.

Aly

[Freed]

1 blonde naso tang(Lilu)
- 1 mystery wrasse (Sid)
- 1 pink-spotted fairy wrasse (Mel)
- 1 hippo tang ( Lazarus

If these are the four you are talking about that are left they should be OK, as long as they aren't huge, in the 24 as long as you don't have a bunch of non necessary items in there with them such as live rock. Some large PVC fittings used to hide in will work fine.

[Steven Pro]

I count 6 fish with the two percs in the anemone. Unless the naso and hippo are tiny, it sounds like too many fish for the 24 to me.

[fishtk75]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7702312#post7702312 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steven Pro
No, I didn't perform or know of any direct comparison tests.
To some extent.
I don't use either.
Nutrient control always works for me. Just because your tests read zero does not mean there are not nutrients in the water. Phosphate test kits are inherently limited and often give a false zero reading because of the various forms phosphate may take. Use of purified water, protein skimming, vegetable filtration, high quality salt mix, careful feeding and dosing, etc. are all necessary to keep nuisance "algae" in check.

thank you for your help.
What is vegetable filtration?
I am still learning.
When you say nutrient control is that what as to how much of what not to put in the tank as additives.
Do this not this everyone has there own setup.
I like to start over.
If you have time a list please of what you use works for you on a program that if you had my 120 reef what do you do as filtration, media,feeding and water supplements,water changing,other maintenance,etc.
I very much will thank you.

[Steven Pro]

Vegetable filtration would be things like an algal turf scrubber or refugium growing Chaetomorpha or Caulerpa or some other macroalgae.

Nutrient control is the use of purified water, protein skimming, vegetable filtration, high quality salt mix, careful feeding and dosing, etc. It is all about watching what you add and being sure you take out the extra.

A lot of my general aquarium care philosophy can be seen here http://www.pmas.org/pro/ It discusses my old 55, but the general idea is the same.

[Steven Pro]

By the way fishtk75, are you a member of the North Central PA Aquarium Reef Society (http://www.ncpars.org/)?

[aly6764]

Steven Pro or Freed,
Thanks for the reply, My 24 G does have some live rock in it. The four fish I have left Are the Naso 5 inches, Sailfin 5 inches, the mystery wrasse 3 inches, and an eyelash blenny 3 inches. Will the rock be a problem for QT?

[fishtk75]

You mean the fourm at North Central PA Aquarium Reef Society
I just signed up.
Also I stared a refuge on the 120 as you said to and read your 55 setup.

[Depth]

Steven,

Did you manage to read the article I recommended?

http://www.fritzpet.com/article_turbo_pg1.htm

Did you think that author's suggestions for caring for the nitrifying bacteria apply to marine tanks?


2) I just read the info on your website.

Here are a few questions:

what does a Kati-Ani unit do and how important is it? Is it something one could go without?
And if indispensable, where can one find it? I don't recall seeing nothing like that in Drs Foster catalog, although I've 'read' it for 3 days straight ;-)

2) Reg. water changes: I live in a dorm and can't hook anything to a sink when I do my water changes. I mix my salt in a 5-gal water bottle, from those that come with the water fountain machines for businesses. I let time do the aeration. (Is this enough?) Another issue I have is that when it comes to pouring the new water into the tank, I have hard time pouring GENTLY. I have to lift up a heavy 3 or 5 gal bottle and pour from high up. I am a tiny woman and can barely hold the bottle. So the water falls rather hard on the tank. Does the splash hurt the fish?
I tried to put a dish or small bucket in the tank and pour over it but sometimes the bucket strays away and falls over the LR etc. You say on your website that you use a Mag-Drive pump to pump the new water back in when you do a water change. How exactly do you do that, and is it feasible in my situation?

3) Now that I got started on water changes, I observe more precipitate in the mix lately - it has stuck to the bottom of the plastic bottle, impossible to remove. One day I tried to scrub it out, unsuccessfully. Now I find floating pieces in the mix - I do not know if they have broken off the old precipitate stuck to the bottom, or I am getting NEW precipitate, due to the fact that my salt is moist. The salt got clumped a bit after I started keeping smallt portions of it in a ziplock, which didn't close properly because it was full). Can I still use this salt?

3) "Lastly, I wanted to give you one more tip from a maintenance guy. I use a magnet cleaner on my tank every few days. This keeps the buildup to a minimum by removing algae before it has a chance to take hold. It only takes a minute, but it saves a lot of hard scraping of coralline algae later."

Do you mean that you use the magnet cleaner on the glass?

Thank you for being here, Depth

[Depth]

Steven,

me again. First of all, apologies for the question bombardment from my side. I haven't been on the forum for a few days but I was doing my homework in the meantime - reading and researching stuff. Questions have accumulated and now pour over you all at once...
I hope you'll have the patience to live through my comeback! ;-)
*
I read your article on Quarantine, and saw the picture of your light fixtures. What exactly fixtures and bulbs do you use on your QT? I have a 26 gall bow, 24" wide, and my fixture is built for a single 18" , 15 W fluorescent bulb. I spoke with Drs Foster, and they told me I couldn't do much better than that.
Also, I only have 1 fish now - the watchman goby. I gave the damsels away, and decided on a more aggressive setup - a flame hawkfish, a coral beauty, and perhaps something yellow, haven't decided what yet. My tank is too small for a yellow tang, and the LFS person suggested a lemonpeel angel since it was very different from the Coral Beauty. I am suspicious to the idea - have you heard of people keeping together these two angels in particular?

So I am thinking to buy all 3 fish at once and QT them together for a month (quicker, and I read, they will get along better if they came all at once).

Yesterday I moved the watchman goby to my newly set 20 gal QT. He is pretty uncomfortable there. As a bottom dweller, it is hard for him to move on the glass. He darts about and swims up high to research the environment (which he never does).
As I am looking at him in pain, I doubt my 3 new additions could spend a month in a 20 gal QT, together with goby. What do you think? Can I do at least 2, or should I do them one by one?

Also: If I would go with aggressive setup, I'll have to part with all my cleaners (cleaner shrimp, a snail and a hermit crab). I know the flame hawkfish will eat them. I am flexible to try a more peaceful setup as well but can't find fishes big enough (I want good-size fishes, 3-4 inch), attractive and good for a small tank like mine. I am in love with wrasses but they would eat my shrimp too.
Can you pull from the top of your head a possible combination that you've seen to work for others with my size tank? (with fish larger than damsels ;-)


Grateful as always, Depth

Deeply in thought, Depth

[Depth]

I guess both signatures are very, very true.

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7707809#post7707809 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aly6764
Steven Pro or Freed,
Thanks for the reply, My 24 G does have some live rock in it. The four fish I have left Are the Naso 5 inches, Sailfin 5 inches, the mystery wrasse 3 inches, and an eyelash blenny 3 inches. Will the rock be a problem for QT? That seems like too many/too large of fish for a 24. And yes, the liverock is going to be a problem with any treatments.

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7712560#post7712560 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by fishtk75
You mean the fourm at North Central PA Aquarium Reef Society
I just signed up.
Also I stared a refuge on the 120 as you said to and read your 55 setup. They also have a club which has meetings from time to time. Usually big frag swaps and other large events. A nice bunch of guys. I have attended a few of their things.

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7714650#post7714650 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Depth
Steven,

Did you manage to read the article I recommended?

http://www.fritzpet.com/article_turbo_pg1.htm

Did you think that author's suggestions for caring for the nitrifying bacteria apply to marine tanks? I did read it and would have liked to see mor to completely convince me, but most of the recommendations were correct. Things like turning off the UV for instance.

[Steven Pro]

A Kati-Ani is a separate resin deionization unit. It is basically a rechargable water purifier and takes the place of the RO/DI units most people use.

I would add an air pump and airstone to the water to help mix your new salt water before use.

Splash does not hurt the fish, but it can move the sand all over and make a mess.

You should be able to still use that salt.

Yes, I usually use a magnet cleaner on my tank's glass every few days to keep things neat.

For fish, I just use the standard 20 watt normal output lamp that the tank came with. When I do corals, I use the two 55 watt PC lamps.

I would not mix the two angels.

I would add the fish one at a time with at least a month in between.

[Freed]

I agree with Steve. As for my recommendation on the 4 fish in the QT, if that's the biggest QT you have then that's all you can do. Yes, I agree with Steve on this as well for being too many in that size QT for that big of fish.

[Depth]

Steven,

Thank you for your time!
Here is where I am at the moment:

From your description of the Kati-Ani unit it seems like it could take the place of RO unit in my dorm. Unless it's very big... Now, the question remains, where it can be found?
*
The rule about one fish per month - what is the reasoning behind it?
*
I kept reading your stuff. First time I hear of "seeding" sand with copepods etc. But since I'd like to keep an angel (at least one;-), I guess I'd have to populate my LR with these creatures first....
How do I do that? Never heard of copepods, antipods or other similar buggers for sale :confused:
Also, tried to find the Southdown sand from Home Depot you recommended - without any luck. I currently have a mixture of the sand the person who sold me the tank gave me (???) and Aragonite Reef sand that I bought.
I am about to buy some more sand - what should I buy? (I plan on getting a starfish as soon as I learn a little more about them)

And a general Angel question: Besides the copepods, what else does one need to know in order to be able to keep a coral beauty?
My LFS person told me I need a month or so more "experience" but he is not being specific, so I don't know if I am gathering the experience as I go or it is just time passing...
What is the angel secret? I am kinda intimidated...

[Steven Pro]

Yes, the Kati-Ani unit can take the place of a RO. Contact ktani here on ReefCentral. His real name is Kip Tani. He is the US importer of the Kati-Ani units now.

One fish per month allows the beneficial bacteria time to increase in population to account for the increase in bioload (ie more fish). Adding fish too quickly or too many at one time can cause deadly ammonia problems.

Many "pods" (amphipods, copepods, and mysis shrimp) come from the liverock. They are good hitchhikers.

Southdown sand is not available everywhere. It is actually getting harder and harder to find now. Any sugar-size aragonite sand will do. Southdown is just much cheaper than the standard packaged stuff.

Angelfish don't just eat copepods. They eat some, but they also eat a lot of algae.

[Depth]

I see. So sand should be smaller-grained. Unfortunately, I already have 20 some pounds of mid-sized aragonite in the tank. It will be a mumbo-jumbo...
*
I have heard that every time you add new sand the tank will cycle. There is nobody in the main tank right now, and so it is the perfect moment to do it. But I've read that one should not cycle when mature fully cycled live rock is present (cycling could kill live rock). So how should I add the sand - little by little? Keep it in a water bucket?
*
The filter I am using on my QT is the filter from my main tank, which is used to a bioload of 5 fish. It should work for 2 larger fishies for a month.
*
Angelfish: I don't have almost any algae. (Is it ok to give vegi diet instead?). People have scared me with the difficulty of having angelfish without telling what exactly the difficulty consist of.
Should I brave up and get the coral beauty?
*

[Steven Pro]

I am sorry, but why is it that you want to add more sand?

There are some fishes which are very hardy and frankly difficult to kill. Angelfish don't fall into that catagory.

Do you have Michael Paletta's The New Marine Aquarium? It is an excellent book for beginners.

[Depth]

Ok.... I wanted to add more sand since I was never sure how much sand exactly I got from the man who sold me the tank. He brought some of his sand, swirled it around, and later claimed it was 10 lb but I doubt it. Sand seemed insufficient, so I added 10 more lbs, and I am thinking of adding 10 more. The main reason is, I want to get a seastar, and I've read they prefer 3-5 inch of sand bed.
*
Do you think that the fact I don't have reef automatically disqualifies me from having a coral beauty?

[Steven Pro]

It depends on what sea star you are interested in, if you will need more sand.

You can have a fish only with liverock (the so-called FOWLR) display and house an angelfish.

[Steven Pro]

Is the angelfish intended for the 26 gallon bowfront? If so, that would be too small for any of the angelfish.

[Depth]

In Drs Foster magazine it shows the Coral Beauty needs only 30 gal.
*
What starfish are easier to take care for? I know very little about them - I want one orange or red, but am afraid I will pick the wrong one. Please advise.
*
So, how is best to add the sand?

[Steven Pro]

The good Doctors are in the business of selling. I am not, at least not to you. I would not put a dwarf angelfish in a tank under 55 gallons.

The eastiest sea stars are the serpent and brittle ones, except stay away from the green brittle stars. They are predatory. And, you don't need a deep sand bed for a serpent or brittle star. The Caribbean red serpent star would be a good choice.

[Depth]

Thank you for your advice for the coral beauty. I'll try to pick smth. else.
Now that I see, they've put all dwarf angels in the 30 gal. category. Besides, in some places I read that the coral beauty is "peaceful", Drs. Foster describes it as semi-aggressive, and I've heard from people that in tank set-ups it should go last bcs is the most aggressive. Which is true?.....

For some reason, I don't like brittle stars. I fell in love with an orange sea star at the LFS, I think it was Fromia elegans.
What do I need to know in terms of care (besides the long acclimation time) if I venture to get a star like that?

[Steven Pro]

I would say a Coral Beauty is semi-aggressive. Not at belligerent or territorial as tangs or damsels, but not as peaceful as gobies or dragonettes either. But remember, there is a lot of individuality in fishes. I have seen some Maroon clownfish that are absolute terrors while others that are shy and the low man on the totem pole.

Fromia and Linckia stars while beautiful are not the hardiest of choice. Both also seem to do best in larger (90 gallons plus) and older (setup for several years) aquaria where there is plenty of live food for them to graze upon and conditions are stable.

[Depth]

I'd love to get a shy maroon clown ;-)

Is there an attractive (preferably brightly colored) star I could have - or I should give up on this altogether for now?
*
I remember , when my tank was cycling, my ammonia spike was unbelievably high. Once I did 50% water change, and the ammo test still showed the darkest green....
I don't know if this is normal. But I think it might have been due to the fact that I had just added new sand....

If I put the new sand in a bucket with water for the first few days, in order to have the initial die-off outside the tank, is this a good idea?

BTW, I'm thinking of buying Petco "live sand" - it is wet, but in a closed plastic bag (no incoming oxygen). Is this really "live sand"?

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7736797#post7736797 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Steven Pro
The Caribbean red serpent star would be a good choice.

[Steven Pro]

Live sand in a bag is generally a waste of money in my opinion. I prefer dry sand and simply seeding it.

[Depth]

Just the way I thought.... (about the sand)...

I actually have some non-live sand (Meridian Oolitic Aragonite) that I bought by mistake from Drs. Foster (I thought it was LS).
I am wondering if I shall seed that and use it, or venture and buy the "live" Aragonite inm a bag (from the point of view that at least it will be the same sand I already have).
Will the "live" Aragonite cycle? I have some inverts in the tank and am trying to figure out a way to diminish the cycling effects on them. Any ideas?

[Steven Pro]

I would add the dry sand you have in thin layers, no more than 1/2" at a time. It will become seeded by the sand under it.

[Depth]

Yes... And I can also put some Cycle on it... (while dry or wet?)
*
On the other side, if I buy the "live" sand in a bag from Petco, may be I'd be lucky to get some "pod" eggs with it. What do you think?

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7748007#post7748007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Depth
Yes... And I can also put some Cycle on it... (while dry or wet?) Are you talking about the Hagen product? If so, I don't know much about it. The only product in that category I trust is Marineland's Bio-Spira.

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7748007#post7748007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Depth
On the other side, if I buy the "live" sand in a bag from Petco, may be I'd be lucky to get some "pod" eggs with it. What do you think? I think you will be lucky to get some bacteria. :(

[Depth]

CYCLE by Nutrafin... It is one of the most popular Drs Foster products - "Drs. Choice", too... Here is a visual reminder:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=3983&Ntt=cycle&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=0&Nty=1

I am looking for the one you mentioned... I've heard of it before but it seems that Drs. Foster don't carry it ... can't find it yet....

[Steven Pro]

Nutrafin is Hagen.

[Steven Pro]

Bio-Spira must be kept refrigerated, so only buy it at your local fish store and only if they keep it in the fridge.

[Depth]

Ok. I'll get it. So you don't believe in CYCLE? It is the only bacteria I've used in my tanks, and so far, I haven't had any problems after cycling.
Here is your portion of (fresh, live and meaty) questions for today:

1. In your article on quarantine, you suggest that everything live be quarantined. How would you quarantine live sand?

2. If I do not have reef, is it important for me to measure/know the Redox potential and the Oxygen content of my water?

3. I am still thinking about the Kati-Ani unit you mentioned. I live in a dorm so can't have RO/Di and resort to BRITA water thaat I then age, and put stress-coat on. They say tap water is good in NYC, one of the best in the US, I hope this is true. But I am thinking about the ionic balance of my water. Do I need to measure that? For now, I just have a basic kit - ammo, nitrate, nitrite, pH. Anything else I really need to test for?
4. BTW, do you know some good aquarists here in Manhattan? I don't have yet any fish "buddy" in my area, besides virtual ones ;-) The pleasure of exchanging "tank- watching" visits must be an unsurpassed one!

constantly renovating from inside and out, Depth

[Steven Pro]

1.) Simply put it in the quarantine tank and hold for one month while observing for unwanted critters.

2.) I don't measure either.

3.) I like to monitor calcium and alkalinity.

4.) There are several in that general area:

http://lireef.org/

http://brooklynaquariumsociety.org/

If neither of the above is close enough, they might be able to recommend a closer one.

[Depth]

I am a member of the Broklyn Society. But it is kinda far for me and they don't meet during the summer. I've found manhattanreef.com. Researching it now....
2) somebody is offering $12 chaetob bags beeming with pods (Nick: pufferpoison). I wonder if I shall buy it in order to have some pods. I am worried that they won'tlike my sand, as per your warning. I do not know whether to put the dry non-live sand, add more Aragionite, or try and find small-grained sand (that is their first preference, right?)

thinking hard and not finding an answer in my thinking, depth

[Steven Pro]

Pods tend to prefer a woven-type matrix. Intertwined Chaetomorpha is an excellent substrate for them.

[Depth]

I'll get it then... ;-) How fast do pods multiply? I am afraid I first have to install a fuge. Otherwise the'll all be eaten soon.

[Depth]

The LFS person gave me some pods from PETCO's reef tank. Taht was great!!
I have a sudden problem - turns out, most tank thermometers are very inaccurate. Do you happen to know where can one find a lab grade tank thermometer?
I bought a Ranco temp. controller ($129) and it does not seem very accurate either ;-(

[Steven Pro]

Why do you think your thermometer is inaccurate?

[Depth]

Steven, this thread was supposed to be devoted to QT only, right? It became a mumbo-jumbo of things, because of my all-over-the-spectrum questions. I feel bad... Do you prefer to be asked questions only relating to QT? BTW, I am re-reading a few of your articles and will have specific questions on them soon.

In the meantime, (till I'm told the opposite) I'd consider myself allowed to keep the mumbo-jumbo going:

1) THERMOMETERS "INDIVIDUALISTS"
I have four thermometers at present - 2 classical ones with mercury, 1 digital, and one "Big Time and Temp" thermometer-alarm. With the Ranco controller, 5.
They all show different temperatures!! I asked around and was told by diff. folks that tank thermometers are notorious for not being properly calibrated - so they are rarely accurate. I did the test with ice water (if put in a glass full of ice and water, a correct thermometer would show 32-33 F). All thermometers were 5-6 degrees off, including the Ranco ($129!), and all gave different readings. Ranco's makers are trying to convince me that Ranco is extremely accurate. I see no evidence to believe this.
One day it got much cooler than the previous, one could clearly feel that the heat was down. All thermometers dropped down 2 degrees (although still showed diff. readings) - Ranco did not move at all!

Exhausted and disappointed, searching for a reliable (lab grade?) therometer ;-<
*
2) SAND-SIFTER: I got a sand-sifting sea star and put it in my QT. She is an ultimate joy! I am afraid, however, that there isn't enough food for her in the QT. So I am trying to feed her as I've read - trying to put little pieces of seafood under her. It is... IMPOSSIBLE! Whatever I try to put next to her, she perceives as a threat and starts to avoid it. I am worried.

[Depth]

This is my 51st post, which marks a kind of a divide for a newbie.

In it I want to thank you for being so reliably here, showing up every new day, to patiently listen to all kinds of misguided, ignorant, sometimes outright crazy questions in my first months of this hobby. It is so very important!
P.S. And I am sure your wife hates the sight of an (even virtual) newbie on whom questions grow like Ich spots!... But this is an issue with no answer :beachbum:

Depth

[Steven Pro]

1.) I am not convinced that a glass of ice water would necessarily be 32-33*F. So, I really can't comment on the accuracy of any of your thermometers. And, I really can't think of a good way to test them.

2.) You can cut the quarantine time short if you must to two weeks or you could place inert silica sand in the quarantine to aid in the comfort for the seastar as well as providing a place to bury food items.

[Depth]

Thank you for the silica sand recommendation. I personally agree that the star does not need much longer Quarantine - it looks healthy and is very active. The delay is bcs of my intention to put some more sand into the main tank. Or may be instead of live sand I should just buy some of those Detritivore Kits.
I read about countless varieties of micro life you could seed your sand with...
For example, the STARTER KITS from Inland Aquatics include culturing animals like:

Nanochloropsus Disk 9.99
Isocrysis Disk 12.99
Rotifer Cysts 1,000 9.99
Rotifer Cysts 1,000 s-strain 19.99
Micro Algae Grow 6oz 6.99
Roti-Rich Liguid 2oz 4.99
Live Cultures also available Phytoplankton and Rotifers 19.99/Qt
Addison's Larval Feed C-QUEST's first food!!!! 13
Inland Green Goo Breeders' Conditioning Formula 5.99/oz
Spirulina/Kelp/Krill Powder (2 oz) 4.99
Copepod Starter Culture 15
Beta Meal 5.99

(http://www.inlandaquatics.com/prod/prod_detrit.html)

Question is, WHICH ONES does a person really need? (esp. for a FOWLR tank...). They are pricey, too, so a good selection won't hurt...

2) Can sifters climb? I just read in Drs. Foster catalog that they CAN'T. Mine does climb - I now doubt that it is a sifter at all (although it looks like one). ??

3) Researched Bio-Spira... It seems that this product is only for cycling new tanks, and not for weekly use (maintenance of the bacterial population)?

4) a QT question - why do people use mostly sponge filters in QTs?

P.S. i read a puffer dentisty article on WWM site. There was a pic. of yours there, of AC and KJ with a puffer. That was so nice!!!

back to work, Depth

[Steven Pro]

1.) I don't think you need any of that, especially for a FOWLR. Most of it is for culturing larval fishes.

2.) They can climb but usually don't.

3.) Correct

4.) They are cheap and effective.

[Depth]

I read that copepods can use stars as a parasite host. My tank is "seeded" with copepods. Does this present danger to the sea star?
Thank you,
Depth

[Steven Pro]

While there are some parasitic copepods, the ones we normally see in aquariums are not those and as such pose no risk.

[Depth]

Steven,


Emerging and ready to come out of my fishless 30 days... I send a few numbered questions that have been plaguing me for days. Your tips are eagerly anticipated, as always.

1. Would you use distilled water in a tank and if not, why? I don't have RO/DI capability where I live and distilled is the only alternative of "Britta" tap.
2. Star Feeding: The Sand-sifter seems to be doing well but I have no idea what it eats. I cannot derive any enjoyment from watching it as long as don't know if it's eating. Could you please tell me how long can this star survive without food? (this way I'd know when I can calm down, and rest assured that, if it's not dead, it must be eating, although I don't see).
I bought a live scallop from the grocery for the Star. Surprisingly, the scallop was alive and well for 4 whole days, but the star did not touch it. After the death of the scallop, I buried pieces of it in the sand, but the star did not eat it. I have no idea how could I feed this guy.
Thirdly, does the hermit Crab COMPETE for food with the star? Should I remove the crab?
3. Does a sea star need adding CALCIUM additives?
4. I never quite understood the concept of aeration for saltwater. Till now I thought that pumps are being used in FW only, but today I read somewhere that tangs needed "bubble bars". Beside the powerhead, would I need some add'l "bubble" aeration for the star and fish?
6. On the topic of aeration, I got a fish corral by Kordon.
Here is the link to the product : http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=9048&Ntt=fish%20corral&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&pc=1&N=2004&Nty=1
It is EXCELLENT for fish catching (I lended it to a friend, and he caught all his fush ;-). It also claims to be useful for temporarily housing aggressive fish. However, s.o. told me it could not provide enough aeration for any fish to stay there any considerable length of time. What do you think?
7. What do you think of the combination of a flame hawkfish, filefish (Pervagor Melanocephalus) and a Yellow Watchman Goby for 72 Gal?


Thank you for your time.

[bad351stang]

Advertising removed...

Ryan
RC Staff

[Steven Pro]

1.) I would trust neither distilled or Brita water.

2.) These sea stars prey upon various worms, crustaceans, and other things living in the sand bed. They generlaly need fairly large aquaria with a mature sand bed to find enough to survive.

3.) I am sure they use some calcium.

4.) Dissolved oxygen is important, but airstones in tanks can easily create a mess with salt creep everywhere. And the idea that tangs require a bubble bar is bunk.

5.) Appears to have been skipped.

6.) Looks good. Glad to hear it worked so well.

7.) Seems fine to me.

[Depth]

Ryan,

Your diligence in removing my "advertising" inescapably reminds the countless robots of the Federation in Star Wars that were shooting on everything that moves.
I would deeply appreciate if next time you first try to fathom the context in which something is being said, and then remove text from people's writing. The first is a property of a human being, the second - of a mindless machine.
Because neither am I a vendor, nor was I advertising. For my question to be understood, the link was needed. Fortunately, Steven Pro must have gotten to the link before you have faithfully removed it.
(Not) sorry to be angry at you - you destroyed my evening after a 7-day work week.
"Bad" in your nick is accurate.

Depth

[Depth]

Steven,

In your article on quarantine, you mention "aquacultured" rock. What does it mean? Here is the exact occurrence: "While I very much approve of aquacultured rock because of the abundance and diversity of creatures that come with it, as well as for conservation reasons, there are common issues with this substrate."

2. In the same article, you also mention a deep sand bed. What is a DSB and when do we need it?

thank you much, Depth

[Steven Pro]

Aquacultured liverock is simply mined rock or rock produced from concrete that has been transported out to reef areas, permitted to become encrusted with various organisms (making it live), and then sold.

There are dozens of articles available online on the deep sand bed methodology. Particularly look for things written by Dr. Ron Shimek.