What the! [Archive] - Reef Central Online Community Archives

jenghes

05/29/2006, 10:05 PM

I know that was my statement and I'll stand by it in the context of the other thread. It was only made AFTER Scott said that I was not a member of TRAC (I was kicked out without my knowledge). These were the previous posts:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7370025#post7370025 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
If you refer back to the first page to where the personal insults started by the inital post by Jen regarding keeping TRAC members informed when she herself has no information what so ever in TRAC since she is not a member and the nice comment posted on NORA's website before it was removed.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7370236#post7370236 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes

Stating that TRAC did not have much activity was not an insult, but my impression of fact. I thought that I was a member of TRAC. I have not seen a meeting notice in a few months, newsletter, any meeting minutes or even a post within the last month. I assumed that TRAC was basicly dead. This is the first that I have heard that I am not a member of TRAC. I provided a draft of the by-laws, helped get the forum on RC started, attended several meetings, and provided input as well as pics for the site. Was I kicked out because I missed two meetings? Well, as of today, because of these comments, I am officially not a member of TRAC and never will be.

Being kicked out without my knowledge is unacceptable, thus prompting my comment that you pointed out above. Many things going on here are unacceptable from a member standpoint. If things change, perhaps I'd reconsider. I used to be a TRAC advocate, but I have not liked the way things have been progressing.

Scott was such a proponent of publicly sharing information. This secret "neat thing" is completely opposite of what he was asking for, IMO.

selgado

05/29/2006, 10:50 PM

That's weird. A question about club activities yields an inquisition on membership status from the President. That's pretty rude.

AnnArborBuck

05/29/2006, 11:20 PM

Jen, I don't think you were ever kicked out. From our standpoint you stopped showing up and responding to our (mostly Scott's) communications. How many times were we supposed to keep emailing you if you never respond?

Personally, I don't undestand all of the "High School" he said/she said stuff going on right, and honestly, I don't have time for nonsense like this. If you want to be a part of TRAC, then be a part of TRAC. That means showing up to meeting and if you can't make it fine, but don't make up some excuse that later turns out to be a total lie (nobody likes to be lied to). It would also be nice if you would stop attacking TRAC in other venues, because we have seen statements that you have made against TRAC. It's a free country and you can say what you want (to a point I guess), but don't be suprised if some of your comments (now deleted, how convienent) irritated us.

And as far as keeping you informed of our "Neat" things, it has been hard to keep you in the loop since you won't even talk with Scott in person about all of this nonsense. So if you won't talk with Scott how is he supposed to tell you about what is being planned. Seriously, should we send you a notorized letter detailing what Scott and I talk about on the way to work or what we have planned?

TRAC is just supposed to be an org where we can get together, learn some cool new things, trade some frags, and hopefully help some other groups out potentially. All of this political mumbo jumbo is just a bunch of fluff when you get right down to it. Does it really matter who is President of TRAC, it's not like it is going to go on your resume.

If you want to be a part of TRAC we would love to have you back, because even though you may not agree, you did leave the club by not showing up or communicating in any form to the org. Anybody can say they belong to any club or organization, but the only way you are truly in that org is by active participation.

jenghes

05/30/2006, 07:32 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7461818#post7461818 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck
Jen, I don't think you were ever kicked out. From our standpoint you stopped showing up and responding to our (mostly Scott's) communications. How many times were we supposed to keep emailing you if you never respond?

Personally, I don't undestand all of the "High School" he said/she said stuff going on right, and honestly, I don't have time for nonsense like this. If you want to be a part of TRAC, then be a part of TRAC. That means showing up to meeting and if you can't make it fine, but don't make up some excuse that later turns out to be a total lie (nobody likes to be lied to). It would also be nice if you would stop attacking TRAC in other venues, because we have seen statements that you have made against TRAC. It's a free country and you can say what you want (to a point I guess), but don't be suprised if some of your comments (now deleted, how convienent) irritated us.

And as far as keeping you informed of our "Neat" things, it has been hard to keep you in the loop since you won't even talk with Scott in person about all of this nonsense. So if you won't talk with Scott how is he supposed to tell you about what is being planned. Seriously, should we send you a notorized letter detailing what Scott and I talk about on the way to work or what we have planned?

TRAC is just supposed to be an org where we can get together, learn some cool new things, trade some frags, and hopefully help some other groups out potentially. All of this political mumbo jumbo is just a bunch of fluff when you get right down to it. Does it really matter who is President of TRAC, it's not like it is going to go on your resume.

If you want to be a part of TRAC we would love to have you back, because even though you may not agree, you did leave the club by not showing up or communicating in any form to the org. Anybody can say they belong to any club or organization, but the only way you are truly in that org is by active participation.

I never got any e-mails from Scott that were not responded to. Perhaps he had my e-mail addy wrong?

Yes, I made an inappropriate post. I removed it myself in less than 5 minutes because I realized that it was. I am a mod there and I can remove it. I apologize for the inappropriate post. There was only one inactive user online at the time "HereFishyFishy". No one else saw it. Obviously this person is hiding behind a unique user name so we do not know who it is. It is a shame that this person has to hide their true identity to check to see what NORA is doing.

Total lie for missing the meetings? What lie? I had 2 conflicts with the meetings. My hubby smashed his car, I had to help him take care of it. I supplied pics. I can supply an accident report, towing and repair receipts etc if you wish. The other meeting, I had family in town and they were being entertained at my house. I could not miss that. I am not sure of what this total lie is.

Scott dropped me from the notification list for missing the two meetings. I am not sure what that was about except that I was kicked out for it. Sorry for assuming, but it is my impression of the truth.

I don't care who is an officer or if I am on the board, but as a member, I would have liked to have a vote rather than just have a few people appointed.

I will talk to Scott in person. I am not sure what that is about.

Bottom Line - I can't participate if I am not aware of what is going on.

selgado

05/30/2006, 09:49 AM

Jen, you lied about all the NORA meetings too. Oh, wait. You went to all of those. :D

Aquatic Aquaman

05/30/2006, 11:31 AM

Jen,

I sent you several PM's through RC on meeting with me to discuss your membership and involvment with TRAC on an off line discussion. Two of them were ignored and one had a comment "If you could find time with your busy schedule". The reason you were removed from the email list and as a member dates back to a PM you sent me back in April and various post made about TRAC on your behalf. You're not showing the club that you wish to be a active member by the actions in which you are taking. From those actions the Board voted to remove you from the email list. I would still like to talk to you in private about TRAC and TRAC Membership if you still want to be a member and keeped inform on what is going on with our club. Please send me a PM when you have available time on a Wednesday or Friday to meet me for lunch since I will be at your location and we'll put all of this behind us and move forward.

As for the "Neat Things" as I have previously stated, those on the Board who are working on arranging club activities are aware of what is coming up. Until the Board has official dates and times and other necessary information I do not want to post to confuse individuals or post on events that can't be managed and get peoples hopes up.

selgado

05/30/2006, 11:45 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7463838#post7463838 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
Jen,

I sent you several PM's through RC on meeting with me to discuss your membership and involvment with TRAC on an off line discussion. Two of them were ignored and one had a comment "If you could find time with your busy schedule". The reason you were removed from the email list and as a member dates back to a PM you sent me back in April and various post made about TRAC on your behalf. You're not showing the club that you wish to be a active member by the actions in which you are taking. From those actions the Board voted to remove you from the email list. I would still like to talk to you in private about TRAC and TRAC Membership if you still want to be a member and keeped inform on what is going on with our club. Please send me a PM when you have available time on a Wednesday or Friday to meet me for lunch since I will be at your location and we'll put all of this behind us and move forward.

As for the "Neat Things" as I have previously stated, those on the Board who are working on arranging club activities are aware of what is coming up. Until the Board has official dates and times and other necessary information I do not want to post to confuse individuals or post on events that can't be managed and get peoples hopes up.

I have never, ever heard of any board of any club or organization voting to remove someone off of a mailing list. What a crock. That is the most childish, rediculous, and vindictive thing I have ever heard.

Hey Jen, you are a greedy officer of NORA, can we have lunch? After seeing Aquatic Aquaman's behavior recently, I don't blame you for avoiding a lunch invitation.

Aquatic Aquaman

05/30/2006, 12:17 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7463930#post7463930 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
I have never, ever heard of any board of any club or organization voting to remove someone off of a mailing list. What a crock. That is the most childish, rediculous, and vindictive thing I have ever heard.

Hey Jen, you are a greedy officer of NORA, can we have lunch? After seeing Aquatic Aquaman's behavior recently, I don't blame you for avoiding a lunch invitation.

I don't know why you are posting selgado none of this concerns you and you are not the involved party.

selgado

05/30/2006, 12:23 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464116#post7464116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
I don't know why you are posting selgado none of this concerns you and you are not the involved party.

Just making an observation.

It didn't involve AnnArborBuck or 22caddy either, but they chimed in. Curious, why didn't you question that? You only want replies that agree with your point of view?

Aquatic Aquaman

05/30/2006, 12:29 PM

It does involve AnnArborBuck as well as 22Caddy as they are members of TRAC and are involved with the club and club activities.

jenghes

05/30/2006, 12:34 PM

I did not ignore any PM's or e-mails. Everyone was responded to. I was "voted off" the mailing list long before these lunch invites. I am not sure what these various posts were against TRAC were 3 months ago, please enlighten me.

Yes, I had a busy week and could not meet due to having to be in Dearborn. I said that I'd let you know if I could because I knew the trips were pending. I do get busy at times, it happens.

I still wonder what this supposed "lie" was.

AnnArborBuck

05/30/2006, 12:38 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464232#post7464232 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
I still wonder what this supposed "lie" was.

You told us directly after the meeting (next day I believe) that you couldn't make the meeting because you were in a car accident on the way to the meeting. We all felt bad and hoped you were ok. Then we find out later that it was days before the meeting and we aren't even sure if you were involved in the accident. To me, that is a lie

jenghes

05/30/2006, 12:49 PM

I did not say that I was in the accident. I had to help my hubby who had an accident. I was on my way to the meeting when he called me. He was in MI at the time so it involved an hour drive up there to rescue him. It was not days before. It was that same day and I had to help with arrangements to get his car towed, rental car, etc. I do not know where you got your information that it was days before because it was not.

I am sorry if I mis lead you, that sometimes happens with written communication. It was not intentional and indeed not a lie. I will not lie about not being offended by being called a liar.

Aquatic Aquaman

05/30/2006, 12:51 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464232#post7464232 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
I did not ignore any PM's or e-mails. Everyone was responded to. I was "voted off" the mailing list long before these lunch invites. I am not sure what these various posts were against TRAC were 3 months ago, please enlighten me.

Yes, I had a busy week and could not meet due to having to be in Dearborn. I said that I'd let you know if I could because I knew the trips were pending. I do get busy at times, it happens.

I still wonder what this supposed "lie" was.

Maybe you didn't ignore it but you didn't respond to the PM when I kept asking about lunch. Until the reply to fit me in. And yes you were "voted off" before the lunch invites based on what I previously stated which was your PM to me in April and various post made about TRAC. I want to take this off line with you and when we meet I will explain about these various post. Please let me know when you have time to discuss with me.

jenghes

05/30/2006, 12:56 PM

What days are you in? I am usually swamped on Tuesdays and Thursdays. I responded to every PM this has no regard to why I was "voted out". I am surprised that you did not vote on officers but you vote members out? I never made any comments in a PM months ago about wanting out. This must have been your assumption.

Doug - this was my quote, I said that no one was hurt and I never said that I was in the accident:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6729302#post6729302 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
Unfortunately, I did not make it due to a little issue that my hubby had. He messed up our car that evening and I had to help him take care of the details :( Luckily no one was hurt.

selgado

05/30/2006, 01:11 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464319#post7464319 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
I do not know where you got your information that it was days before because it was not.

oo, oo, oo, pick me I know, I know. :wave: Who is Aquatic Aquaman, Alex?

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464359#post7464359 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
I am surprised that you did not vote on officers but you vote members out?

LMAO - bingo.

selgado

05/30/2006, 01:18 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464202#post7464202 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
It does involve AnnArborBuck as well as 22Caddy as they are members of TRAC and are involved with the club and club activities.

And what is the 'it' again? Kicking a member out of a club because they have a busy schedule and removing a member's email from a mailing list without permission?

Sounds like a great way to run a club to me. :)

Aquatic Aquaman

05/30/2006, 01:35 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464496#post7464496 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
And what is the 'it' again? Kicking a member out of a club because they have a busy schedule and removing a member's email from a mailing list without permission?

Sounds like a great way to run a club to me. :)

Once again selgado you are stepping out of your bounds. Once again you are not involved with club activities or what has happened in the past. I do have things documented since I am very good at that. When Jen wishes to meet with me I will provide the information to her since this is more of a private matter that I wish we would take off line.

Jen posted about her accident on the Nora forum on RC that was available to read. I did not give any other information to anyone they formulated that information from what they read. The only information that was given to any one in the club was a forward of the email that Jen sent to me stating that she was in an accident on the way to the meeting and being concerned and friends with Jen I shared this with other friends of Jen at the time that were involved in the club.

Please selgado since you do not know what is going on I would ask that you keep your comments to yourself.

selgado

05/30/2006, 01:39 PM

Motion denied. :hammer: As your cohort mentioned earlier, it is a free world. You can run you club as you like, but I am as free as a bird.

AnnArborBuck

05/30/2006, 01:51 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464616#post7464616 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Motion denied. :hammer: As your cohort mentioned earlier, it is a free world. You can run you club as you like, but I am as free as a bird.

True, but personal attacks are against the rules of RC. There is free speach to a point.

selgado

05/30/2006, 01:53 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464693#post7464693 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck
True, but personal attacks are against the rules of RC. There is free speach to a point.

Where is the personal attack? Please quote it for me.

AnnArborBuck

05/30/2006, 01:57 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464702#post7464702 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Where is the personal attack? Please quote it for me.

Go and read any of your posts from the first page, many of those can be considered personal attacks. All of this veiled comments that you like to make aren't as witty as you may think.

selgado

05/30/2006, 01:58 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464736#post7464736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck
Go and read any of your posts from the first page, many of those can be considered personal attacks. All of this veiled comments that you like to make aren't as witty as you may think.

I didn't think you could produce them.

jenghes

05/30/2006, 01:59 PM

You must have misunderstood my e-mail or my posts. I was not in an accident on the day of the meeting. My husband was. I was on my way to the meeting when he called me to rescue him up North. I then had to help him iron out the details of getting the car towed, repaired etc. I feel that this was an unavoidable circumstance and I apologize for missing the meeting. I was really hoping for meeting minutes to know what went on, but never saw any :(

I do not wish to have lunch to review your old files of e-mail's etc. I am also an excellent record keeper and have no desire to do this. I too have all mine and I can bring up my objections to what you have said to me too. I am choosing not to do this. Re-hashing old paperwork is a waste of time to me.

All we asked for was:

As a member, to have a vote in the club officer elections and activities.

To have one picture removed from your website because NORA is using it as the logo (should be a simple coding change). You commented that you did not have "time" in your busy schedule and that I gave you permission for public use. I did give permission for public use and I nicely asked for removal of that permission. I still own the photo and have the right to revoke the usage permission at any time. I never relinquished ownership.

I also asked for no bashing of LFS's in NORA forums from you. We are working to establish relationships and do not want our name tarnished by non-NORA members.

We ask that TRAC meeting reminders not be posted in our forums. Events are OK but trying to draw our members away is not.

We ask that you do not come to our forum with an alter-ego to watch what we are up to. You are welcome to come in and see what we are doing, but be honest about who you are. I am referring to at least the "HereFishyFishy" username and perhaps others. We don't hide from you.

Do not come to our forums and call us names like a "conglomerate of greed". We have been publicly posting information, just because it was not on RC does not mean that we are bad. We have our reasons for making other boards be our primary posting area. These reasons do not involve TRAC and there is no reason to comment on such.

If you would like to meet for lunch to discuss the future, I am open to it. I don't know your schedule here and I may not be available for the first time that we try to meet.

AnnArborBuck

05/30/2006, 02:19 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464751#post7464751 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
You must have misunderstood my e-mail or my posts. I was not in an accident on the day of the meeting. My husband was. I was on my way to the meeting when he called me to rescue him up North. I then had to help him iron out the details of getting the car towed, repaired etc. I feel that this was an unavoidable circumstance and I apologize for missing the meeting. I was really hoping for meeting minutes to know what went on, but never saw any :(

Point taken, thanks for the clarification. Maybe we mis-interpretted you email because that is not what we came away with.

I do not wish to have lunch to review your old files of e-mail's etc. I am also an excellent record keeper and have no desire to do this. I too have all mine and I can bring up my objections to what you have said to me too. I am choosing not to do this. Re-hashing old paperwork is a waste of time to me.

All we asked for was:

As a member, to have a vote in the club officer elections and activities.

Does it really matter who the Secretary is? It not like we are collecting dues and depositing said money into some account. We are just some people meeting together.

To have one picture removed from your website because NORA is using it as the logo (should be a simple coding change). You commented that you did not have "time" in your busy schedule and that I gave you permission for public use. I did give permission for public use and I nicely asked for removal of that permission. I still own the photo and have the right to revoke the usage permission at any time. I never relinquished ownership.

This is more of a legal matter that I care not to get into. I will just say this, not everything is as cut and dry as you make it out.

I also asked for no bashing of LFS's in NORA forums from you. We are working to establish relationships and do not want our name tarnished by non-NORA members.

Yet your members come here and bash us. Ok, have your cake and eat it too. And I was with Scott at the fish store in question, and he was correct in everything he stated. I have been going to that store for a long time and normally everything looks great, but on that trip that was not the case. Heck, that is the store that really got me into this hobby when I used to live very near said location.

We ask that TRAC meeting reminders not be posted in our forums. Events are OK but trying to draw our members away is not.

If you are talking about the RC forums there is nothing in the rules that state this. If you mean the private NORA forums then consider that done.

We ask that you do not come to our forum with an alter-ego to watch what we are up to. You are welcome to come in and see what we are doing, but be honest about who you are. I am referring to at least the "HereFishyFishy" username and perhaps others. We don't hide from you.

You locked everybody out of your forums who don't pay "dues", what would you call this. Plus you are very heavy handed in the banning over there, so how else are we supposed to see when NORA board members bash us. Oh yeah, you deleted that one so no harm done right :(

If you would like to meet for lunch to discuss the future, I am open to it. I don't know your schedule here and I may not be available for the first time that we try to meet.

I assume you are talking to Scott here because I am not in the area at all during the week.

Aquatic Aquaman

05/30/2006, 02:38 PM

An accident is an unavoidable circumstance. The email was not mis-understood it stated exactly this "We were involved in a car accident on the way, not horrible but the car had to be towed :( This is our brand new car, wish it was the junker." You may have exaggerated the truth I'll give you that but the email is taken for what it says. I want to put this at rest.

I'm willing to have lunch with you to move ahead. Its just that you asked for proof of what was written and I was going to provide that for you. You never asked the question to me or anyone else in the club about those individuals appointed to positions to get to club off the ground. You posted this complaining about it in NORA and how terrible TRAC was. I wish you would of came to me about this or brought this forth to someone in the club before publicily trashing what was happening.

There was no Bashing of LFS on your forum. I was just reporting what I saw when I was there the week before. Which they stated they had a bad shipment so it was vouched for. I agree with you that you do not wish to have your name tarnished and I ask the same of you. I see you also partake in tarnishing TRAC. We had never previously publicily tarnished NORA as you had with TRAC before I stated what I saw on the NORA forum as locking down the forums to paying members only.

We're not trying to draw any members away. I don't believe in competition for membership. The two clubs are totally different. Nora charging a membership free and TRAC being open to the public. People can decide what clubs they want to belong to and if they want to belong to both.

I did not come to NORA forum with an alter-ego I can to the forum as a registered user with a valid email to read on information on the saltwater hobby. At the time I had to login to read certain forums since they were not open to public view for information regarding swaps. Just because I never posted. I sorry I never filled out my profile because I like to keep my personal information private especially since I do not know how its going to be used and I've seen that you do not respect private information such as PM's sent on RC and share them with the online world.

The conglomerate of greed was the lock down of what was in a forum on the NORA forums that stated all forums were going to be locked down to paying members only. In which they were until a bunch of individuals complained and you (Jen) took the inititive to work out. I give you a complete thumbs up on that. But there was some slander involved by yourself before that post on the NORA forum which you admitted to finally and also slander against your partner in crime Selgado.

I just wanted to make sure all of that was cleared up so the forward progress can take place. We keep beating a dead horse with a stick and I've been stating I would like to move forward and meet with you.

What you ask for I would also ask for inreturn for TRAC. Except I would be willing to refer people to your club in the findlay area. As I have stated before in the NORA forum I think both clubs can exist and bring education to those people in the hobby. The clubs are suppose to be fun to bring together a group of people who are interested in the hobby nothing more and I want to keep it this way. I'm sorry for all those individuals who wasted time reading all of this because for some reason we have to keep posting and not meet in private about matters.

Jen I'll be available on Wednesday and Friday to meet with you for lunch. Let me know what works out for you or come see me in the Met Lab on those days but I would prefer to keep it a lunch time discussion and not on buisness time.

jenghes

05/30/2006, 02:46 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464899#post7464899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck

Does it really matter who the Secretary is? It not like we are collecting dues and depositing said money into some account. We are just some people meeting together.

I am not only speaking of Secretary but all of the leaders (President, V.P. etc.). As a member, Iâ€™d like to have a say on the leadership.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464899#post7464899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck

This is more of a legal matter that I care not to get into. I will just say this, not everything is as cut and dry as you make it out.

I do not want to get into legalities either. I wish that the Webmaster would have simply taken the 10 minutes to re-code the website and remove the one picture â€“ no questions asked. It would have gone a lot further in maintaining a relationship than quoting â€œpublic usage grantingâ€? and that TRAC doesnâ€™t have to.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464899#post7464899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck

Yet your members come here and bash us. Ok, have your cake and eat it too. And I was with Scott at the fish store in question, and he was correct in everything he stated. I have been going to that store for a long time and normally everything looks great, but on that trip that was not the case. Heck, that is the store that really got me into this hobby when I used to live very near said location.

OK â€“ new agreement â€“ We wonâ€™t if you wonâ€™t. Deal? Scott even admitted to exaggerating as to the condition of the store. Iâ€™m sure that every store has issues every now and then. Does that make them bad? I donâ€™t think that it does but to publicly bash them for a one time event when they know better sickens me. That particular store got me going in the right direction in the hobby as well.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464899#post7464899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck

If you are talking about the RC forums there is nothing in the rules that state this. If you mean the private NORA forums then consider that done.

No it is not in the rules, but it is common courtesy. We do not post our meeting announcements in the TRAC forum on RC or your website. Please do not do it to us.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464899#post7464899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck

You locked everybody out of your forums who don't pay "dues", what would you call this. Plus you are very heavy handed in the banning over there, so how else are we supposed to see when NORA board members bash us. Oh yeah, you deleted that one so no harm done right :(

At the time this all happened, no one was locked out due to paying and non-paying members. All that was required was registration. A few days later we went to having some paying members and we made some changes to the website. We accidentally locked some forums that should not have been. It was fixed in less than one day. HereFishyFishy knew this, as they saw my inappropriate post. I admitted to doing it and apologized for it. It was very immature of me. I apologized and I apologize again. I personally removed it, not any other mod, with out any prompting from anyone.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464899#post7464899 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck

I assume you are talking to Scott here because I am not in the area at all during the week.

Yes, this is intended for Scott.

Aquatic Aquaman

05/30/2006, 03:07 PM

Jen,

You just previously said you granted me public use access in just a previous post and which you did in an email. I had questioned it with our law team at work on public use access. You requested me to remove it and I have told you that I would remove it by August of this year. We are planning on redesigning our website. Recoding takes a little more time then 10 mins. If any coding was done in 10 mins they wouldn't have engineering firms writing software for extended periods of time. The approximate time it would take for me to remove it would be approximately an hour to an hour and a half. Which I've been traveling for work lately and didn't have time on my home computer to do this. I do not have time in the afternoon or the weekends to do this as well. When I get off work I'm generally not at home. I don't mind that NORA is using this picture since you have granted them public use access to it as well. You still own the picture. I have not taken and claim to owning the picture but the access rights to the picture that you have given me which will expire for you in August.

I admitted to exaggerating a little to the effects of the store in question and that was to the number of dead fish (which were quite a few) in their tanks, but most of my statements were true and was backed by the LFS themselves on their bad shipment and once again by AnnArborBuck. I wasn't trying to say that they were a bad store this was as selgado would put it "spun" to make it sound like that. I was just reporting what I saw that day and the current condition on that day of their fish. I see on the NORA forum the same report on Trillby Tropics. So does that mean nora members are publicily bashing trillby on your forum? No you're just reporting what you saw that day at Trillby as I was with Fish Dr.

The lock down was stated in the Forum that all Forums were going to be locked down in which they were. They were only unlocked after a post made by yourself was done to prevent people from becoming upset and to try and show that this wasn't the original plan. (I'm sorry that this keeps coming up but as before I have been done with this discussion) You can refer to HereFishyFishy as my login name on the NORA site that has been removed or revoked. Just because I saw it doesn't mean that anyone else at the time couldn't of seen it and that was not the only inappropriate post I saw by you on the NORA forum regarding TRAC and TRAC activities.

Jen I hope you will have lunch with me. I want so badly to move forward from this.

selgado

05/30/2006, 03:28 PM

The spin I was speaking of was not referring to the store, but your behavior in the thread.

But gee whiz, thanks for thinking of me.

jenghes

05/30/2006, 03:42 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
An accident is an unavoidable circumstance. The email was not mis-understood it stated exactly this "We were involved in a car accident on the way, not horrible but the car had to be towed :( This is our brand new car, wish it was the junker." You may have exaggerated the truth I'll give you that but the email is taken for what it says. I want to put this at rest.

It was stated clearly and concisely in the forum what happened. There was no lying involved. I still do not understand where it was accused that the accident happened â€œdaysâ€? earlier came from. Sorry if the e-mail was not clear, I did not think that I needed to go into further description of my whereabouts.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
I'm willing to have lunch with you to move ahead. Its just that you asked for proof of what was written and I was going to provide that for you. You never asked the question to me or anyone else in the club about those individuals appointed to positions to get to club off the ground. You posted this complaining about it in NORA and how terrible TRAC was. I wish you would of came to me about this or brought this forth to someone in the club before publicily trashing what was happening.
[/B]

I did send you an e-mail once regarding the appointment of officers. Yes, Iâ€™d like to have a vote in a club and have my one voice heard. I do not recall posting in NORA that TRAC was â€œterribleâ€?. I may have voiced some of my complaints. I fully admit that I may have because I was dissatisfied how the â€œmembersâ€? were being treated.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
There was no Bashing of LFS on your forum. I was just reporting what I saw when I was there the week before. Which they stated they had a bad shipment so it was vouched for. I agree with you that you do not wish to have your name tarnished and I ask the same of you. I see you also partake in tarnishing TRAC. We had never previously publicily tarnished NORA as you had with TRAC before I stated what I saw on the NORA forum as locking down the forums to paying members only.
[/B]
I beg to differ. I had to apologize to the LFS in question in your behalf to obtain them as a sponsor. In general we want to have good relationships with all of our LFSâ€™s in the area. Criticizing them when they get a bad shipment is not a good way to establish good relationships. Again â€“ if you stop, we will too.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
We're not trying to draw any members away. I don't believe in competition for membership. The two clubs are totally different. Nora charging a membership free and TRAC being open to the public. People can decide what clubs they want to belong to and if they want to belong to both. [/B]
That is fine but early on in TRACâ€™s inception you did comment about dragging members away from TRAC. I feel that we can be a member of both â€“ but I really am not sure of all the differences are that you state.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
I did not come to NORA forum with an alter-ego I can to the forum as a registered user with a valid email to read on information on the saltwater hobby. At the time I had to login to read certain forums since they were not open to public view for information regarding swaps. Just because I never posted. I sorry I never filled out my profile because I like to keep my personal information private especially since I do not know how its going to be used and I've seen that you do not respect private information such as PM's sent on RC and share them with the online world. [QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
But you did create a unique username and the e-mail is hidden from view. Why not use the same username as on RC so that we recognize who you are? We would welcome you.

[QUOTE]<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman

The conglomerate of greed was the lock down of what was in a forum on the NORA forums that stated all forums were going to be locked down to paying members only. In which they were until a bunch of individuals complained and you (Jen) took the inititive to work out. I give you a complete thumbs up on that. But there was some slander involved by yourself before that post on the NORA forum which you admitted to finally and also slander against your partner in crime Selgado [/B]

The â€œConglomorate of Greedâ€? comment was made well before anything was locked down. Finally? I admitted right away and it was removed right away. The only two users online was you and I. No one else saw it. Partner in crime? You insulted him as well, just as you did now. Please stop with the personal attacks. This is no way to make it better.

jenghes

05/30/2006, 03:57 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465201#post7465201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
Jen,

You just previously said you granted me public use access in just a previous post and which you did in an email. I had questioned it with our law team at work on public use access. You requested me to remove it and I have told you that I would remove it by August of this year. We are planning on redesigning our website. Recoding takes a little more time then 10 mins. If any coding was done in 10 mins they wouldn't have engineering firms writing software for extended periods of time. The approximate time it would take for me to remove it would be approximately an hour to an hour and a half. Which I've been traveling for work lately and didn't have time on my home computer to do this. I do not have time in the afternoon or the weekends to do this as well. When I get off work I'm generally not at home. I don't mind that NORA is using this picture since you have granted them public use access to it as well. You still own the picture. I have not taken and claim to owning the picture but the access rights to the picture that you have given me which will expire for you in August.

TRAC can afford a legal team? I asked for it to expire when I requested it. You replied that you donâ€™t have to because I granted public usage until August? I did not do such a thing. You could have responded in such better ways that saying that you did not legally have to. Please donâ€™t criticize me for lack of time when you commonly use this as an excuse as above. It happens.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465201#post7465201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
I admitted to exaggerating a little to the effects of the store in question and that was to the number of dead fish (which were quite a few) in their tanks, but most of my statements were true and was backed by the LFS themselves on their bad shipment and once again by AnnArborBuck. I wasn't trying to say that they were a bad store this was as selgado would put it "spun" to make it sound like that. I was just reporting what I saw that day and the current condition on that day of their fish. I see on the NORA forum the same report on Trillby Tropics. So does that mean nora members are publicily bashing trillby on your forum? No you're just reporting what you saw that day at Trillby as I was with Fish Dr.
Selgado did not spin it, you did this all on your own. The LFS was upset with your comments not his. No one bashed Trilby, we stated that there was an algea problem, but they are new and need to work the kinks out and that it was probably â€œNew Tank Syndromeâ€? We all agreed that they will probably be a good place to go to when they work out the kinks.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465201#post7465201 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
The lock down was stated in the Forum that all Forums were going to be locked down in which they were. They were only unlocked after a post made by yourself was done to prevent people from becoming upset and to try and show that this wasn't the original plan. (I'm sorry that this keeps coming up but as before I have been done with this discussion) You can refer to HereFishyFishy as my login name on the NORA site that has been removed or revoked. Just because I saw it doesn't mean that anyone else at the time couldn't of seen it and that was not the only inappropriate post I saw by you on the NORA forum regarding TRAC and TRAC activities. [/B]
Spin it anyway that you want, it was not the intent to lock out our members. As far as my inappropriate post, at least I can admit to it and have apologized. I am still hoping for an apology for some of yours such as the â€œConglomerate of Greedâ€? and the â€œTerrible Threeâ€? No one else saw it because no one else is there. HereFishyFishy still appears to be active. I am not sure what you mean about it being revoked.

selgado

05/30/2006, 03:59 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465007#post7465007 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
But there was some slander involved by yourself before that post on the NORA forum which you admitted to finally and also slander against your partner in crime Selgado.

Wow I totally missed that. Mr. Aquaman are you saying someone slandered me or I slandered someone else? Seeing how I really don't think you would be looking out for my best interests, I have to assume the latter. If that is the case, I challenge you to produce the statement.

Rest assurred, I will not be scared by the aggressive language in your statements. Again everyone sees this for what it is and you for what you are. You really think people don't see right through you, don't you? NORA and RC club members are not dumb.

Oh and for crying out loud people if you are going to accuse someone of something, consult a dictionary. Slander can only be in spoken form. Libel would be what you are looking for if it is in written form, such as on a website.

selgado

05/30/2006, 04:34 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7465552#post7465552 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by jenghes
HereFishyFishy still appears to be active. I am not sure what you mean about it being revoked.

I just PM'd him. It's still active. Talk about a colossal lie. This just keeps getting better or should I say deeper.

Anyone can go to the members list on NORA's website to verify this.

ohioreef

05/31/2006, 02:52 AM

Hey Jen!!

They are not worth your time!! Your time is better spent elsewhere, like maybe WORC....... :) Haven't seen ya around in a while.

Aquatic Aquaman

05/31/2006, 08:06 AM

I never bashed the fish doctor. I was just stating that there was a problem with their tanks and fish at the time when I was in there. Just as was reported with Trillby on the Nora forum. I so sick of this.

As for the appology I did state it here:

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7370110#post7370110 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman ]

There was no personal attack against selgado. He did personally attack me and my integrity. And if you want me to prove it selgado you can check here.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7464451#post7464451 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado

Where you accused me of something that you have no Idea of whats going on and defamed my integrity.

All the prove you need is in the post people can read them both on the RC Nora Forum, and the TRAC RC Forum: The Nora website forum can not be a reliable source since the members have control on postings and delete post as they see fit.

The Dictionary that I have states Slander as:

"the utterance of false charges or misrepresentations which defame and damage another's reputation"

definition of utterance:

"something uttered; especially : an oral or written statement : a stated or published expression"

I am so done with this and Jen if you want to continue to talk about this I would sugguest you take it off line with me as I have requested of you several times now. I don't take well to public threats jen. If you wish to take me to court over your picture that you gave me permission to use, and that you requested I removed and I gave you a removal time frame I am more the willing to do so.

selgado

05/31/2006, 08:26 AM

Sorry dude still don't see the libel. You are going to have to be more specific.

And I don't know what planet you got your dictionary from, but mine defines utterance like this:

The act of uttering; vocal expression.
The power of speaking; speech: as long as I have utterance.
A manner of speaking: argued with forceful utterance.
Something uttered or expressed; a statement.

If you are going try to intimidate someone with legal terms, you should consult a lawyer or at least an online legal dictionary for pete's sake.

You're just making stuff up as you go again, eh Prez?

Aquatic Aquaman

05/31/2006, 08:41 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7469428#post7469428 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Sorry dude still don't see the libel. You are going to have to be more specific.

And I don't know what planet you got your dictionary from, but mine defines utterance like this:

The act of uttering; vocal expression.
The power of speaking; speech: as long as I have utterance.
A manner of speaking: argued with forceful utterance.
Something uttered or expressed; a statement.

If you are going try to intimidate someone with legal terms, you should consult a lawyer or at least an online legal dictionary for pete's sake.

You're just making stuff up as you go again, eh Prez?

I got my definition from Merriam-Websters dictionary you can check them out online as well at http://www.webster.com. Not sure what dictionary you're using. I don't know where you get this Prez stuff from. Once again I think you need to check your sources or step out of the conversation, but good luck with that selgado.

selgado

05/31/2006, 08:51 AM

Hmmm...I stand corrected. Maybe you should just go straight to a lawyer.

Here, I'll make this easier for you.

"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "libel" and "slander". Libel is defamation that can be seen, such as in writing, printing, effigy, a movie, or a statue. Slander is any defamation that is spoken and heard.

As taken from the first few lines of an entry here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander

I am confident in my sources. It is and has been apparent that you want me to leave. I will not. So what do you do next when you don't get your way?

Aquatic Aquaman

05/31/2006, 08:59 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7469528#post7469528 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Hmmm...I stand corrected.

Thats all you needed selgado. Two different sources show two different definitions. I just wanted to show you my source from a very highly regarded dictionary company. Take it however you wish. So to your source your Libel to mine your Slanderous either way. All I ask is that you quite being slanderous and libel to a club in which you know nothing about. You can stay and read and post, but keep mindful of what you are posting.

selgado

05/31/2006, 09:06 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7469587#post7469587 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
Thats all you needed selgado. Two different sources show two different definitions. I just wanted to show you my source from a very highly regarded dictionary company. Take it however you wish. So to your source your Libel to mine your Slanderous either way. All I ask is that you quite being slanderous and libel to a club in which you know nothing about. You can stay and read and post, but keep mindful of what you are posting.

You should be aware that in the real legal community there is no such difference of opinions. If you say to a Judge, "he slandered me" and then show a website as proof, you will be laughed out of court.

I am and always have been mindful of my posts. Everything I have posted is accurate.

In any event, you still have not specified the statement that is supposedly defaming. All I have seen so far is a link to a web page on RC, but before you referred to statements on NORA. Which is it? Where is it? Enquiring minds want to know.

Aquatic Aquaman

05/31/2006, 10:00 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7469625#post7469625 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
You should be aware that in the real legal community there is no such difference of opinions. If you say to a Judge, "he slandered me" and then show a website as proof, you will be laughed out of court.

I am and always have been mindful of my posts. Everything I have posted is accurate.

In any event, you still have not specified the statement that is supposedly defaming. All I have seen so far is a link to a web page on RC, but before you referred to statements on NORA. Which is it? Where is it? Enquiring minds want to know.

I don't really feel the need to, but if your enquiring mind needs to know you can go to the link below.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7368817#post7368817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado

selgado

05/31/2006, 10:07 AM

Dude, there is like 4 or 5 different posts by me on that page. Can you pick one (unless there are more) and put it directly on this thread? When you hit the quote button what do you do? Erase the actual words in my quote? Why do you do that?

Why are you afraid to put my words on this thread for all to see? I'm not.

Aquatic Aquaman

05/31/2006, 10:13 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7469927#post7469927 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Dude, there is like 4 or 5 different posts by me on that page. Can you pick one (unless there are more) and put it directly on this thread? When you hit the quote button what do you do? Erase the actual words in my quote? Why do you do that?

Why are you afraid to put my words on this thread for all to see? I'm not.

The link takes you directly to the quote on the page, but here you go. I'm tired of this you are wasting my time.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7368817#post7368817 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
AquaticAquaman is in charge of a dead Toledo club. That is the motivation for his comments.

selgado

05/31/2006, 10:25 AM

Finally, thank you. I know it took me to the page, but there's no telling what you find defaming.

That's not slander, libel, defamation of character or a kick in the pants.

TRAC is a dead club. You are, or used to be, in charge of it. And my comment about your motivation is an opinion, and opinions can not be libelous. Unless you are saying I am stating that I know your motivation is fact, in which case I would have to be either in your brain :eek1: or psychic.

Any others?

P.S. I noticed that Corey just replaced you as Prez. Did you get voted out?

Aquatic Aquaman

05/31/2006, 10:49 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7470000#post7470000 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Finally, thank you. I know it took me to the page, but there's no telling what you find defaming.

That's not slander, libel, defamation of character or a kick in the pants.

TRAC is a dead club. You are, or used to be, in charge of it. And my comment about your motivation is an opinion, and opinions can not be libelous. Unless you are saying I am stating that I know your motivation is fact, in which case I would have to be either in your brain :eek1: or psychic.

Any others?

P.S. I noticed that Corey just replaced you as Prez. Did you get voted out?

Show me proof to support you fact that TRAC is a dead club. If you can not back your fact that it is a dead club then you are libel and your assertion is false. The club has an active website and an active mailing address we hold meetings and have future meeting and events that you yourself can attend and find out first hand what this club means and what it is all about. I am a founding member and webmaster of the TRAC club I am not the president. I was holding a previous leadership position in the club to aid in getting the club off the ground. Once again please attend the meetings and you will know what goes on within the club do not make false pretenses and assumptions.

selgado

05/31/2006, 10:56 AM

Again "TRAC is a dead club" is an opinion. And opinions are not libelous. If I had said "TRAC officers use TRAC as a non-profit front for money laundering," that would be libelous because it is both a false statement that is presented as true and it is damaging. Saying TRAC is a dead club is neither false nor damaging. Gotta admit though, I really didn't think you would argue the 'dead club' angle. ;)

Kinda like when you said "NORA has become a conglomerate of greed." Again not libelous. Just an opinion. Bad manners if you will.

saltfever

06/01/2006, 08:00 PM

WOW this is the most activity ive seen in here in a month or more!!!!!!!!! Cant we all just get along!LOL

Dubbin1

06/02/2006, 09:43 AM

Wow it looks like we have problems on both sides of the fence. Things would be so much better if the fighting just stopped. I really see no need for it and all it does it make both of our clubs look bad...

Aquatic Aquaman

06/02/2006, 10:22 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7483425#post7483425 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
Wow it looks like we have problems on both sides of the fence. Things would be so much better if the fighting just stopped. I really see no need for it and all it does it make both of our clubs look bad...

I totally agree with you Dubbin and welcome back!

AnnArborBuck

06/02/2006, 02:18 PM

selgado

06/02/2006, 02:26 PM

Some apologies that were made in private that should be made public, because the accusations were public.

Dubbin1

06/02/2006, 03:54 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7485717#post7485717 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck
Word!

So are you as worried about the game tonight as I am? Rasheed better come to play for once this post season.

Well I was worried but as bad a they have been playing I have almost all but given up. I didn't even really watch the last two games. I just couldn't take watching them play like crap anymore.

AnnArborBuck

06/02/2006, 07:06 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7485770#post7485770 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Some apologies that were made in private that should be made public, because the accusations were public.

Seriously, let it go man.

selgado

06/02/2006, 07:12 PM

Easy for you to say. No one ganged up on you and called you a liar. Imagine how it must feel to be the on the receiving end.

AnnArborBuck

06/02/2006, 08:37 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7487426#post7487426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Easy for you to say. No one ganged up on you and called you a liar. Imagine how it must feel to be the on the receiving end.

Nobody was completely innocent in this whole thing.

Dubbin1

06/02/2006, 08:40 PM

And yet you two want to keep this up :rolleyes: Like I said, this makes both of our clubs look bad and your bickering does not help the situation. It seems like I am the only one that has posted in this thread that cares about the image of my club.

selgado

06/02/2006, 08:51 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7487859#post7487859 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by AnnArborBuck
Nobody was completely innocent in this whole thing.

Whatever comforts you. Let your conscience be your guide.

AnnArborBuck

06/02/2006, 09:06 PM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7487880#post7487880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
And yet you two want to keep this up :rolleyes: Like I said, this makes both of our clubs look bad and your bickering does not help the situation. It seems like I am the only one that has posted in this thread that cares about the image of my club.

Anything to take my mind off the stinkin Pistons :(

I agree with you, I will not post in this thread again.

selgado

06/02/2006, 09:13 PM

You can admit in private that you were wrong but not rectify public statements just to avoid upsetting Aquaman. Wow. Just wow.

KingDiamond

06/03/2006, 11:10 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7487426#post7487426 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
Easy for you to say. No one ganged up on you and called you a liar. Imagine how it must feel to be the on the receiving end.

I didn't think anyone ganged up on people on these boards :D !!

Brad

Aquatic Aquaman

06/05/2006, 07:19 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7487880#post7487880 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Dubbin1
And yet you two want to keep this up :rolleyes: Like I said, this makes both of our clubs look bad and your bickering does not help the situation. It seems like I am the only one that has posted in this thread that cares about the image of my club.

Hey I posted a thread I want the Images of both clubs to be great as well. Some people have a hard time of letting things go. Dubbin we need to work together if we want both of these clubs to succeed.

Aquatic Aquaman

06/05/2006, 07:22 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7488083#post7488083 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by selgado
You can admit in private that you were wrong but not rectify public statements just to avoid upsetting Aquaman. Wow. Just wow.

As how this thread started I wanted to keep all of this private between the individuals involved but there were two certain individuals who wanted to make everything public so it was, and now it has been going on and ending in private. The only thing that upsets me is how you wont let things go selgado. Please as Dubbin and I have pleaded let it go for the best of both our clubs.

selgado

06/05/2006, 09:29 AM

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7500036#post7500036 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
As how this thread started I wanted to keep all of this private between the individuals involved but there were two certain individuals who wanted to make everything public so it was, and now it has been going on and ending in private. The only thing that upsets me is how you wont let things go selgado. Please as Dubbin and I have pleaded let it go for the best of both our clubs.

If you really wanted this to end in private you would have PM'd me instead of posting in this thread. You are fooling no one. It's interesting to me how you so anxiously want to let it go to avoid being exposed.

As far as individuals making everything public, if you look back at how the thread started, you will see that it started with you questioning someone's membership in a club, in public. That should have been done in private, but you decided to do it in public. You knew it would create tension when you posted it.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7458766#post7458766 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Aquatic Aquaman
Jen, are you a member of TRAC?....