6 Q's about Live Rock

[OkiDivers]

Okay, I (we) am NEW NEW NEW to this hobby. I bought a tank for my better half and will surprise him with it at the end of the month. I have been reading so much about saltwater tanks, and now I am trying to get of much of it together as I can before I give it to him. So, I am asking for everyone's help.


1. I plan on cycling my new tank with live rock and a substrate bottom. To do this I am supposed to get "cured live rock" correct?

2. Many articles talk about different quality live rock. How do I know what I am getting or what to look for in picking out LR?

3. How much should I start off with to cycle my new tank? One article said 1 pound per gallon of water. I have Frank's old 38gal tank.

4. Does anyone have directions to the Live Rock shop in Naha? I go down there every Wed and would like to go next week if I can.

5. If I buy the LR on Wed can I set it in saltwater until I am ready to put it in the tank of Friday?

6. Is it better to just pick up our own LR from the beach during low tide?

Okay, I think that is enough questions for now. I am sure you all will see my name on here a lot in the next few weeks. I hope to put water and live rocks in the tank next Friday (Memorial Day weekend) and give it to him.

Thanks in advance

Arika

[Dastank]

All of this is my opinion and how I did my tank.

I have a 30 gal tank w/20gal sump. It has a deep sand bed (over 3in) in the tank, and in the sump. It also has 30+ lbs of live rock in it. I also collect my own water (5 gal a week) I don't mix it, but I do top off my tank with fresh water to keep the salinity down.

There's a lot of discussion about DSB (deep sand beds) personally I believe they are a big help in controlling water quality.

I put all the sand, the rock, and the water in my tank in one day. All of it was live. (Anything that has been in the ocean for a while is "live")

Quality IMO has more to do with what the rock looks like rather than where it actually comes from. I've seen some Fiji Rock at a LFS that looked dead, and some on the beach that was covered with purple, red and pink coralline algae. Where ever you get it from, the amount of coralline is a pretty good indication of the quality of the rock.

Sometimes there are some pretty good rocks on the beach; sometimes there are some pretty good rocks and the store. I'm sure this helps a lot!

The problem with using uncured rock is there can be a lot of hitchhikers on it. For example I ended up with a lot of small crabs in my tank and a few urchins. I had to trap them out, but it wasn't a big problem for me I had to wait for the tank to cycle anyway. There can also be some die off of the organisms on the rock if it's not cured. Cured rock can also have hitchhikers on it. Personally if you setting something up a tank from scratch I wouldn't worry about getting cured rock.

If you want to buy rock and wait to put it in the tank I would recommend keeping it in saltwater with a power head on it. The rock will get a lot of die off if it's not in moving water.

Good luck!

[jeffb3t]

Be aware that buying rock can be spendy. Collecting rock can bring a lot of hitch hikers but all in all collecting your rock is the fasted way to go. Das and I can show you some great spots to get nice pieces. I would first, Decide how deep of a sand bed you want and put that in first. Next, get your water in the tank but leave it a few inches from the top. Last get your rock. If it is taken under water, you won't have a large cycle to deal with like the rock found on the beach. Put all your rock in and basically, wait until you don't see any ammonia or nitrite if you see it at all. I would wait a couple week before stocking however to give the sand bed time to set up. It will take a while before the sand bed is functional but you will still be able to slowly add things. DO start out with the clean up crew first.

[vest0830]

Sounds like some great advice!

[Dastank]

A word of caution:

You have to be careful if you decide to collect your own rock. It's my understanding that some locations you can take loose rock, or rock washed up on the beach, as long your not damaging the reef taking it it's legal. By the Meada point area it's illegal to take shells or even sand from the area. I would ask some of the people on the forum before you collect your own. IMO!

[OkiDivers]

Thank you all for the good information!

Das and Jeff what beaches or area did you get your live rock from? I wouldnt mind collecting a few peices myself and then buying the rest.

Also, anyone have directions to the Naha rock store?

[okinawafish]

If you want I can show you exactly where to get your rock from. I'd like to go out this upcoming weekend if anyone is interested. I have collected over 200+ lbs of live rock easily. I have collected so much rock on trips that I almost drowned trying to carry it in...LOL. If you don't listen to another word I say please listen to this...get your rock from the deepest part of the ocean you can. If you pull the rock from the shallows it will be crawling with hitchhikers. The deeper you go the better. I have had really good results with rock coming from 15+ feet in depth. Also you need to freedive for it. Don't get caught pulling stuff out of the ocean with dive gear. They can confiscate your gear and your CAR onsite if they catch you.

As for your questions I think if you get your rock from a "clean" part of the ocean (not alot of algae around) you won't need to cure it and it won't have a lot of hitchhikers. Please don't buy your live rock. I personally think it's the biggest waste of money here. Even if you are looking for that one piece of rock to tie your whole aquarium together. Hammers, chisels and dremel tools are what make the world go 'round in this hobby, especially here on Okinawa. Hope this helps a little.

Take care,
Josh

[jasalmanza]

Live rock form the ocean does not need to be cured. The process of "curing" rock is done because the rock needs to be returned to a healthy state (if you mailordered rock that had to sit outside water for a period of time). Look at the process more like cycling it just like you would a tank. If you place uncured (mailorder) rock in you tank all you levels would spike, and your tank would begin the cycling process all over.

As far as setting up your tank, I think me and Josh have a pretty sound method that requires almost no cycling. Essentially you could beging stocking in three days. Start with live sand, or crushed coral if you want. You want to get it as the tide is going out, or pulling off of it. This way, all the benificial bacteria are still present. As said before collect your own water. You can buy water from the fish lady or PPM, but why not use water that the inhabitants of your tank were raised, and thrive in? There are a few place to collect, but I have found Kadena North is the best. Once in the tank, in a matter of 24 hours the tank will cloud. When the water clears, it's done and you can begin to add SLOWLY.

Good luck, and welcome. If you need any help let me know, and I'll drag Josh along for the ride!

[OkiDivers]

Thank you very much for all the info Jasalmanza (BTW, what is the name Josh uses to post so I know who is who?)

I found directions to Naha, so if DrsFoster gets my powerheads to be by Wed, I will probably buy some LR downtown. I would like to collect some from around here Saturday and get the water in the tank Fri or Sat. Is anyone else going out this weekend to collect LR?

I am so happy this forum is here!

[okinawafish]

I'm Josh

[jasalmanza]

I am going out every morning this week, You're (everyone for that matter) is more than welcome to come. Friday will probably be the only day I'll snorkle. I would HIGHLY advise that you don't waste you're money on rock (God knows this hobby will consume enough of that already). Especially since you'll probably just wind up replacing it with better rock sometime in the near future anyhow. Given our location, and the abundance of obtainable treasures, I think there is some truth to the old "you paid what,... for a ROCK!?!" joke. Good luck with your shipments, I wont go into my nightmares, I'll save those for the next frag party....

Jason

[vest0830]

I would get larger rock from the ocean, then place smaller stuff on top of that for future fragging. reason being, if you go to trade something, you will have to pull out the large piece to trade...but if you had smaller stuff in the tank, you could pull out the smaller stuff. Arika, you saw my tank, its full of the rock from the store in naha. I have (2) 1400 yen bucket fulls in there. (you buy it by the bucket full) So, my advice, get some larger peices from the ocean, and then put the stuff from naha covering it.


on the subject of snorkeling...im game for this weekend for sure! just let me know when and where to meet, and im there! I think I still have your number in my cell josh so I will just give you a call later this week...sound good?

[OkiDivers]

Frank, I think I will do that. Yes, I saw your tank and it was set up very nice. That sounds a lot easier than getting all live rock. My DrFoster stuff still hasnt arrived. I hope it comes in with the next set of mail.

Jason, I sent you an email. I would love to tag along and collect rocks.

arika

[vest0830]

have you called them yet?

-or maybe it might be a mail issue. I to am having some serious time delays on a few packages comming across the water.

[OkiDivers]

Yes, they said it takes 4-6 weeks for APO. I ordered it April 21st, I guess I am just impatient. I really wasn't thinking it would take the whole 6 weeks. ha-ha Oh well, such is life. It is okay!

[jeffb3t]

Arika,

Are the powerheads all you are waiting for? If so, I have a couple you can use until yours arrive.

[OkiDivers]

Frank loaned me his. Thanks anyway! I cant belive how nice everyone is on this forum. I really appreciate everyone's help!

[jeffb3t]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7405356#post7405356 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OkiDivers
Thank you all for the good information!

Das and Jeff what beaches or area did you get your live rock from? I wouldnt mind collecting a few peices myself and then buying the rest.

Also, anyone have directions to the Naha rock store?

Actually I collected mine form Aja in Naha. Not the best place now with all the polution and all.

[jeffb3t]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7434340#post7434340 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by OkiDivers
Frank loaned me his. Thanks anyway! I cant belive how nice everyone is on this forum. I really appreciate everyone's help!

Actually the whole point of this is forum is to bring awareness and friendship to folks who share the same hobby and to teach different methods and styles of reefkeeping.

[OkiDivers]

Naha directions can be found on this post http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=704778

I went there last week following these directions and landed right at her shop!

arika

[vest0830]

Did you give him the tank?

[OkiDivers]

I gave him the tank on Saturday. He LOVED it! We went snorkeling for live rock on Saturday (though I had some from Naha), and made several trips to PPM for water. Yesterday, we aquascaped and got everything up and running.

Now we are just waiting for the tank to cycle. We have noticed several creatures in there already. We have some tube worms, a sand clam, a crab (named Nicki), and a little fishy who hitched a ride. Its funny we sit and stare at the tank looking for more things who hitched a ride to our home!

This morning when we woke is when we found Nicki the crab, he had rearranged the furniture! Anyway, thanks to all who have helped me get to this point. I am sure I will have 50 million more questions! I took pictures of the tank, I will upload them later today.



arika

[vest0830]

Awsome! I would watch those crabs. Nicki might turn into a big burden. we had a few crabs in the tank, and they messd lots of things up. Not to mention, the clowns would like to sleep in the crannys of the rocks, right where the crabs would stay. The crabs got ****ed one night and re-talliated on the fish and we lost 2 fish.

[fdokinawa]

yea, had a crab that killed a couple of my fish and shrimp.. :( It's usually best to just pull them, just to be on the safe side.

[OkiDivers]

Thanks for the advice. We got 1 crab out because he took the whole rock with him all over the tank, but I think there is 1 more. Any tricks for getting them out?

[Dastank]

I've been pretty successful with a plastic bottle. Cut the neck off before it starts to taper down. Turn it around and stuff the two pieces back together so the crabs can walk up the neck and drop into the bottle. Put some food in it before you shut the lights out and collect the crabs the next morning. If you want I'll try and take a picture of a trap I made so you can see what I'm talking about.

Happy Hunting!

[jasalmanza]

One of the best things to have!! I completely agree with Dastank. I got a snowflake eel, and all my crabs mysteriously disappeared, but I wouldn't recommend getting one. They dig, and are known for knocking things over. Every morning I have to put things back where they belong. The bottle also works wonders for catching fish without any added stress. I have caught evry fish in my tank!!! Simply place a forozen cube in, hold it in the tank, and pull it out when you get what you want.

A few other inexpensive things I've picked up along the way are a turkey baster (great cleaning tool), a toothbrush, dental tools (you can get them at any 100Y store...go figure), a magnafying glass, and a long pair of tweezers (about 11" long, get them at makuman). 100Y stores are great!

[jeffb3t]

Don't forget about a syringe...just as FD about the aptasia.

[OkiDivers]

We just cut the bottle, put a peice of shrimp in it, and dropped it in the tank. Hopefully in the morning we will be free of the crab!

I understand the turkey baster and the tweezers. However, what kind of dental tools are you talking about and what do you need them for????

[jasalmanza]

I was able to pick up a couple of different shaped dental picks, and I've used them for a number of things. They are great for scraping algae and calcium buildup out of tight areas. I've used them to get rid of urchins, but mostly, I use them to get anemones out of tight places. There is a place up north we snorkle where you can get really small bubble tip anemones by the dozens. Unfortunatly they dont stay small, and split regularly. so before I knew it I had a tank full of them. With the picks I can get them out of the rocks with little to no harm to them. Then I just put them back, or give them away.

Forgot about the syringe...absolutely necessary.