Calcium Reactor on Nano?

[mokujin22]

anyone have a calcium reactor on a small tank (<30 gal)?

how about ozone?

i'm asking because i only have the one tank (26 gal) and have started to build up a few nice sps frags. i intend on detting up a larger tank (probably in the 90 gal range) sometime in the summer, but until then, i'd like to take all measures possible to prevent a crash (rtn, etc).

tony.

[Peabody]

(double post)

[Peabody]

I used to run one on a 15 (with a 10g sump). I had 3 small clams which were growing quickly, and about 10 frags all growing. Dosing very heavily with B-Ionic wasn't cutting it and I was almost forced to switch.

[grim]

What is your current alk and cal? What, and how much, are you currently dosing to maintain those levels? How often are you doing water changes and how large?

jb

[impur]

I have a 29gal and built a CA reactor for it. I haven't put it online yet, waiting to build a 30gal cube for strictly SPS, then i'll use it on that tank. Doing ok now using baking soda for alk, Seachem for calcium and weekly 10% WCs keeping alk at ~8dKH and calcium 420ppm.

[surfnvb7]

JMO, but you should invest in a top notch kalk reactor/stirrer/doser before you ever have to invest into a calcium reactor. Even once you get a calcium reactor, you will still have to devise a way to keep the alkalinity up. SPS do best when the alkalinity is stable first, then it can utilize the calcium more efficiently to build the skeleton.

If you get a good kalk dosing system, you have solved your alkalinity dosing/stability, a good portion of your calcium demand (depends on brand of kalk, and how efficient your stirrer/doser is), and your freshwater top off all in one instant.

All you need is the reactor/stirrer, a dosing pump, and kalk powder. This is ALOT cheaper than going with a calcium reactor (buying the champer, the media(s), then the regulator, and then replenishing CO2 cylinders), and also keeping up with alkalinity demand seperately.

I've seen alot of amazing all SPS tanks up to 120g that rely solely on a kalk reactor/stirrer/dosing with freshwater topoff.

Check out this link about the Deltec kalk stirrer someone I know just got. Its expensive, b/c of the brand...but I think I'd put $400 into this before i put the same $$ into a calcium reactor IMO. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=745046

You should only need a calcium reactor for that extra punch, you can't quite get with kalk on larger systems.

Hope this helps

[mokujin22]

grim-

my alk is at 8 dKH and Ca is typically at about 400-450. i have been checking figures at least 2x a week and supplementing with reef builder powder and Red Sea "Calcium +3". i have historically done a 5 gal water change about every 3 weeks, but have been changing more water out lately with frag acclimation. ideally, i'd like to get my Alk up a bit (more in the 10 range).

[smy168]

why don't you use a dosing supplement like B-Ionic?

[mokujin22]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6472018#post6472018 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
JMO, but you should invest in a top notch kalk reactor/stirrer/doser before you ever have to invest into a calcium reactor. Even once you get a calcium reactor, you will still have to devise a way to keep the alkalinity up. SPS do best when the alkalinity is stable first, then it can utilize the calcium more efficiently to build the skeleton.

If you get a good kalk dosing system, you have solved your alkalinity dosing/stability, a good portion of your calcium demand (depends on brand of kalk, and how efficient your stirrer/doser is), and your freshwater top off all in one instant.

All you need is the reactor/stirrer, a dosing pump, and kalk powder. This is ALOT cheaper than going with a calcium reactor (buying the champer, the media(s), then the regulator, and then replenishing CO2 cylinders), and also keeping up with alkalinity demand seperately.

I've seen alot of amazing all SPS tanks up to 120g that rely solely on a kalk reactor/stirrer/dosing with freshwater topoff.

Check out this link about the Deltec kalk stirrer someone I know just got. Its expensive, b/c of the brand...but I think I'd put $400 into this before i put the same $$ into a calcium reactor IMO. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=745046

You should only need a calcium reactor for that extra punch, you can't quite get with kalk on larger systems.

Hope this helps

i have two float switches in the return section on my wee-little sump that is hooked up to a microjet in a 5 gallon bucket of RO for auto-topoff. i had to install it after seeing how much water i was losing on a dialy basis with the halide over the small tank. it works quite well. kicks on about once/hour and drops a few ounces for a couple of seconds before kicking off.

after getting the search function to work the other day, i found a few good threads on dosing kalk in your autotopoff. was almost convinced to run a small water pump (aqualifter, etc) on digital timer at night to keep the pH up (as opposed to adding it to my current setup). but then again, i'd like to simplify things as much as possible and not sure how much pH dive at night occurs with my chaeto fuge lights on reverse.

i am probably adding about 1 gal/day to my system in topoff. if i added kalk to the RO supply, do i need to run a small powerhead continuously in the resevoir?

thanks so much for the advice, guys!

[mokujin22]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6473383#post6473383 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by smy168
why don't you use a dosing supplement like B-Ionic?

until a couple of months ago, only kept LPS, shrooms and zoos. i wasn't even really testing Ca all that often. at the time, my ghetto Red Sea Ca +3 seemed to be enough (in my sheltered viewpoint...lol)

anyway (without sounding like a complete idiot), what makes B-Ionic different than what i'm using now? is it a 2-part?

t.

[smy168]

B-Ionic is a 2 part dosing system that helps with Cal and Alk. I can understand that this supplement doesn't work with everyone but it's worked well with mine. As Peabody mentioned, he dosed heavily and it didn't work for his clams but I think these are still "hit and miss" depending on the system that you're running.

As far as trial and error, it may be a better option to try the B-Ionic first and see what the results are on your SPS before sinking $$$ into a reactor.

I'm getting ready to set up a small 24 gallon system and my thoughts on Reactors are these:

Mechanical Hardware for cal. supplementation is iffy for me, too many opportunities for things to go wrong like power outage, surges, breakdowns etc etc

Smaller systems shouldn't require so much hardware..what are you running now for filtration?

B-Ionic is a little labor intensive because you need to dose everyday but it's cheaper now than when I started using it 6 years ago. I think most of us are staring at our tanks whenever we get a chance anyway so it's not so bad. There are a few companies offering this now which means you have options.

Just some thoughts, there are things that are very general that all reef tanks can benefit from then there are things that can be "hit or miss" that depends on your own unique system, Cal supplementation is a "hit or miss" as far as how you provide it to your system.

Good Luck

[Peabody]

I have to politely disagree with surfnvb7, both on kalk reactors and CA reactors....

Kalk reactors are great, but alone, they are a bit of work. Read the threads in the SPS forum....since it matches the rate of evaopration it doesn't always stay balanced....your numbers could creep to high, or stay too low. The amount of kalk isn't controlled. Most folks also stressed the importance of testing and supplimenting trace elements (MG, ST, and Iodine, chiefly.) No trace elements are replaced with Kalk, and will deplete.

With a CA reactor I have to disagree with the statement that it doesn't keep ALK up. It releases CA and ALK in balanced proportions, as well as all of the trace elements used by hard corals. I've run a reactor for years and never had to supplement ALK. On top of that, it is not reliant on evaporation. Everything stays rock steady.

[impur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6472018#post6472018 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by surfnvb7
JMO, but you should invest in a top notch kalk reactor/stirrer/doser before you ever have to invest into a calcium reactor. Even once you get a calcium reactor, you will still have to devise a way to keep the alkalinity up. SPS do best when the alkalinity is stable first, then it can utilize the calcium more efficiently to build the skeleton.

If you get a good kalk dosing system, you have solved your alkalinity dosing/stability, a good portion of your calcium demand (depends on brand of kalk, and how efficient your stirrer/doser is), and your freshwater top off all in one instant.

All you need is the reactor/stirrer, a dosing pump, and kalk powder. This is ALOT cheaper than going with a calcium reactor (buying the champer, the media(s), then the regulator, and then replenishing CO2 cylinders), and also keeping up with alkalinity demand seperately.

I've seen alot of amazing all SPS tanks up to 120g that rely solely on a kalk reactor/stirrer/dosing with freshwater topoff.

Check out this link about the Deltec kalk stirrer someone I know just got. Its expensive, b/c of the brand...but I think I'd put $400 into this before i put the same $$ into a calcium reactor IMO. http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=745046

You should only need a calcium reactor for that extra punch, you can't quite get with kalk on larger systems.

Hope this helps

A calcium reactor will also provide alk and trace elements along with calcium.

Kalk is definately a good addition to any tank for obvious reasons, provides alk and calcium, as well as keeps the pH up and stable. I dose my kalk out of a 4gal bucket with a peristaltic pump. Total cost was $50 so if you are just falling short of keeping up with alk and calcium demands, kalk might just fit your needs.

But if you begin to pack the tank with SPS, you will need additional supplementation. I have just a 29 gal, mixed reef but have been primarily going SPS. As i stated i dose kalk 24/7 with the addition of vinegar to help eek out that little extra. This does not even come close to meeting my tanks demands for alk and calcium. I still am required to dose baking soda daily and calcium supplement 2-3 times a week.

[surfnvb7]

Yeah, thats what I thought ya'll would say. I've yet to use either (I'm too cheap...ha!), so my comments only come from what I see a majority of people in my club use. Good point on the controlability of a calcium reactor, versus the kalk reactor Peabody...forgot to mention that.
I was under the impression that calcium reactors only release calcium in the chemical reaction. But I guess this highly depends on what type of media you are using in the chamber though. What is the chemical make up of *most* media anyways, and what brand are ya'll using?

We have a local guy who has had a TOTM tank. He only doses kalk. Most club members are imitating his set up now with great results. As for replenishing nutrients, he gets that from his routine water changes as the trace elements are in the salt mix.

aside from the standard calcium reactor vs kalk dosing arguement you typically see in the sps and other forums which I don't want to get into, i think dosing kalk solely can definately be done if you have it set up *right*, i've seen living proof. ;)

January 2004 TOTM - 40g (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/totm/index.php)
Same guy - now a 120g tank (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=637834&perpage=25&pagenumber=1)

thats all you'll hear from me about this :rolleyes:

[Peabody]

All CA reactor media is basically the same thing, aragonite (or dead coral skeleton) so the proportions of ALK and CA are spot on.

The problem with water changes with Kalk is many of those trace elements in salt mixes (primarily MG) are lacking, and get depleted faster than they get used in our tanks. I still advocate water changes, though!

[calvin415]

On a nano, I would still opt for a 2-part additive instead... I run B-Ionic on my 40G SPS reef with a dosing pump so it's hassle free, I set it and leave it, check my levels when I do my water changes and they are steady everytime. Ca 410, Alk 9.8, click my little red house for pics of the setup.

[Peabody]

If you can do it, that's a GREAT way. As a counterpoint, let me expand on my example above. I was at a point where I was having to dose 6 times the maximum reccomended daily amount to keep my levels where they needed to be. It was such a strugle, I had to get the reactor.

But, if you can get away with B-Ionic...it's good stuff!

[impur]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6477870#post6477870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peabody
If you can do it, that's a GREAT way. As a counterpoint, let me expand on my example above. I was at a point where I was having to dose 6 times the maximum reccomended daily amount to keep my levels where they needed to be. It was such a strugle, I had to get the reactor.

But, if you can get away with B-Ionic...it's good stuff!

I second that. Its very nerve racking to be dosing 3-4 of the measuring cups full of part 1 just to meet needs when the recommended amount is far less than that.

In my 10gal tank, B-ionic was great. I added the alk to my topoff water, and dosed the calcium every other day. Worked like a charm ;)

[calvin415]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6477870#post6477870 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Peabody
If you can do it, that's a GREAT way. As a counterpoint, let me expand on my example above. I was at a point where I was having to dose 6 times the maximum reccomended daily amount to keep my levels where they needed to be. It was such a strugle, I had to get the reactor.

But, if you can get away with B-Ionic...it's good stuff!

How were your Mg levels? I can't believe you were dosing 6mL of each B-Ionic part per gallon and it wasn't enough... Like already mentioned the problem with Kalk, is just sucks the Mg out of the water.

Ca reactors are great, but costly, and if you don't have a controller they can screw up your Ph in a hurry. For a larger reef Ca reactor other wise you could be going through gallons of B-Ionic regularly and would cost more than a Ca Reactor so again for a nano, B-Ionic all the way.

[calvin415]

Oh and mokujin22 to answer your Ozone question, I run a Red Sea Ozonizer Plus (built in ORP Controller) injecting into my skimmer. Works great and love how crystal clear the water is.

[Peabody]

Calvin, my MG was fine, believe it or not. I was doing something like 5 or 6 full dosage cups a day of the stuff. I think the primary hogs were my clams. They were growing like there's no tomorrow, and in such a small tank they were just killing all the CA/ALK. When I got my reactor, although expensive, it kept everything spot on.

[calvin415]

How strange!!!??? Guess you gotta love that kind of growth!

[Peabody]

It was pretty wild! I had several little baby maximas and squamosas. They laid down new shell constantly! The frags growing didn't help my levels either.

But, it basically convinced me that there is a critical mass where it becoes easier, and cheaper in the long run tin invest in a reactor.

[mokujin22]

wow... thanks so much for the info guys. i think that i'm going to pick up some B-ionic and try that for a bit. i admit, i spend at least 20 minutes or so every day (most days more time) staring at my tank and tweaking and/or testing something. however, i would like to get things as automated as possible to keep additions to 2x weekly or so.

after spending a bunch of time reading through about 10 pages of Eric's 40 gal setup (very nice, btw), i am thinking of setting up a diy kalk reactor. this will be plumbed in between my RO resevoir microjet pump and sump (where the float switch is). other than being cleaner, what is the primary difference between a kalk reactor and adding kalk powder to my resevoir?

let me also note that my current setup is merely a stopgap. i intend on setting up a larger (120+ gal) SPS tank this summer. at that point, i may even dismantle my high-tech planted tank (which will free up my CO2 controller, solenoid and tank). this will convert nicely to a calcium reactor.

thanks again,
Tony

[mokujin22]

oh yeah... things that i'm dosing/adding regularly:

-Seachem 8.3 Marine buffer (added only after water changes)
-Seachem Reef Builder (weekly/biweekly to raise alk)
-Red Sea "Reef Success" Calcium +3 (contains Strontium, Molybdenium and I; added about every other day)
-Kent Marine Iodine (weekly to help shrooms and zoos - as i'm moving more towards all SPS, do i still need this?)
-Kent Marine Coral-Vite (weekly; containes Ca, I, P, Mg, Str, vitamins A,B-1,B-6,B-12)

should i be adding something else? i typically only test pH, Alk, NO3, PO4, salinity and Ca. actually, only check NO3 or P04 once is a blue moon these days (chaeto rocks!)

thanks,
Tony

[calvin415]

First, don't dose anything you don't have a test kit for, regular water changes should take care of any trace element needs. To answer your kalk question, the difference is just that, it's cleaner. When you add kalk to water either in a reactor or in a reservoir it becomes unstable and wants to start reacting. When you do it in a reactor you keep it stable until it's added to your tank, when you have it in a reserviour it will react with the CO2 in the air and form calcium bi-carbonate (the crust on the surface)... This isn't a big deal until the crust gets in the drip line. It will clog the line, it will dirty the tank, and the worst part is that it will not disolve and is a complete mess. I actually pulled my DIY reactor, not that it wasn't working, but I feel the dosing pump is more stable/reliable, and so far it is. Hope this helps, feel free to PM me if I can help at all...

[Peabody]

I agree...never dose anything you haven't tested for. Some aquarists get to dangerously high levels of Iodine and other things by not testing.

[mokujin22]

10-4 on the Iodine and testing. do SPS tanks need regualr addition of an I supplement? i was adding it to help my xenia, shrooms, zoos, etc.

Eric- funny about the dosing pump. i read the first 10 pages of your tank thread and you change to a dosing pump on page 11. lol. i think that for now, that may be the simplest and most reliable method.

thanks so much, guys!

[Peabody]

You need to add and maintain CA and ALk rock steady. MG also needs maintained at an appropriate level (a little high than what'sin most salt mixes). Other than that, there's little to worry about

[mokujin22]

thanks peabody. i think that i'm sold on Eric's dosing pump method with the B-ionic.

where in New Orleans do you live? i have an uncle in Metairie. he was one of the lucky ones who happened to be on the right side of one of the canels. did you lose much?

[Peabody]

B-Ionic is great. I think you will be fine with that. It hasall trace elements in proper proportions, so you wouldn't have to add nor test for anything but CA/ALK!

I live in Mandeville. I was just settting up my tank after moving, so it had nothing but rock in it. So, I lost nothing but time. Power was out for 4 weeks.

[mokujin22]

yeah, that's what i've heard. sounds very promising; i'm going to make an order this weekend.

glad to hear that everything was allright with the hurricane. you were lucky.

take care,
Tony