Help with Frogspawn

[Semi newbie]

I have a frogspawn, not the branching kind but the one with a base that is kind of shaped like a taco. Anyway it was doing beautifully in my tank for about 4 months and now something is going on. It appears that something is growing on the base/skeleton part. I picked it up and checked it out and the stuff is brown/red/purple and can't be scraped off. Almost appears to be a funky type of coralline, except it can't be scraped. Where it has grown to the soft tissue, the tissue has receded, the rest of it is doing fine. I am afraid that whatever this is it will affect my whole frogspawn as well as other things in my tank. None of the other corals seem to be in any distress. Any idea what this might be or what I should do about it. The only change I made recently to the tank was to section the sump so I can add a refugium. I tested the water on 3/20 and got PH 8.3, Calcium 450, Nitrate 10-20, Nitrite 0, ammonia 0, alk 3.2 and temp 78-80. I am in need of a water change any time now. I am at a loss as I have no idea what is going on.......Lynn (I don't have a digital camera so I can't attach a picture.....)

[Playfair]

It does sound like a type of coralline, which shouldn't harm the coral... I would really love to see a pic, do you have a neighbor you can coerce to take a pic? It is possible that the flesh is receding due to insufficient current or light... If it pulls up to the top edge of the coral, then you are in big trouble! Does it still fully expand? Why are your nitrates so high?

~Dave

[Semi newbie]

Only half of it still fully expands. The other half is closed up and right in the middle there is no flesh left, it has melted away. I don't have neighbor with a camera, my father-in-law has one maybe I can use that. Try to imagine one side perfect and fully expanded, nothing in the middle, and then flesh on the other end just not expanded. What do you mean by big trouble. Trouble for my whole tank or just this coral???!!!!! I don't know what is going on with my nitrates. I don't have a deep sand bed in the true sense. I have sand probably 3 inches to 4 inches in some places but it also has some bigger particles to it. I made some mistakes in the past and added some stuff that is not conducive to the deep sand bed thing but I am not ( or wasn't) too worried as everything was doing well. Like I said I finally separated my sump into three sections so I could get some Calupera(sp) in there and hopefully that will help with the nitrates. I don't think lighting or current is the issue as it has plenty of both. It is in the top third of my tank under PC lighting. I am upgrading my lighting to MH and actinic pc's. I decided that to get the true colors possible out of the sps and clams I needed to do it. I am excited but a little nervous about the heat and electricity bill. Anyway I am so confused, the coral did not fall, I have not moved it from where it has been happy for months, no other corals are close enough to sting it unless mushrooms or green stars can do it??? I am afraid it may be some sort of coral illness???

[cperson]

Lynn,
Have you introduced any new corals or rock to your tank recently? Could be a small critter or parasite maybe. You may want to post this to the coral forum and ask Eric Borneman about it. He will probably want to see a picture.

I've heard about this brown encrusting growth that looks like coraline algae but isn't. Somewhere in this BB I've seen pictures of this stuff. The edges curl up, like potato chips, when it spreads. I think it's an invasive species.

BTW, is the flesh color on your coral white or light pink color? It could be a hammer or pearl rather than a frogspawn. sometimes they grow in a long horizontal shape rather than more upright like most frogspawn. They're pretty similar LPS anyway.

[saltwaterfishlover]

not sure about the frogspawn in general other than I want one. but inyour question about mushrooms and star polyps... the polyps are harmless in my best opinion but the shrooms could be semi agressive a good place to check on how much attitude corals and such have is http://www.liveaquaria.com/ they give descriptions of lots of things.... btw what hospital you work at. I am a printer repair tech at strong/highland/UofR and all the offsites associated with them.... gawd that place has hidie holes everywhere....

[Semi newbie]

I work at RGH. I used to work at Strong, about 6 years ago. They closed the unit I was working on and I didn't like my choices within the hospital so I moved on. I enjoyed working there though. I worked with a great bunch of people, a lot of whom are still there. I don't know what is going on with the coral, I will have to get a picture somehow to show you all. I am just bummed by it. If it is a parasite or virus will it get all the other corals as well?

[Playfair]

Mushrooms DEFINITELY have a potent sting! Were they touching that area of the frogspawn? I would move one or the other away (preferable the shrooms), and keep an eye on the spawn for infection (brown jelley or other foreign looking stuff on the flesh). Periodically (1-2x per day) blow on that area of the coral with a baster to make sure it stays "clean".
Should come back in a week or so if it was just stung.


Craig- Even a TOTAL NEWBE can tell the difference between 2 VERY different corals... What are you getting at? :confused:

[Semi newbie]

Okay I came home from work today and half of the coral is gone! The stuff on the hard skeleton is horrible looking. More brown in color than anything else. I turkey basted it, nothing happened. I took some pictures with my father-in-laws digital and will post them as soon as I can.

[Semi newbie]

Here is the picture. I think the coral is pretty much in a bad way. Is there anything I can do to save the half that is still living? What do you think caused this? What can I do to prevent it from happening again?

[Semi newbie]

another picture

[Semi newbie]

Last pic. Sorry they are not that good but it was my first ever usage of a digital camera?????

[Gary Majchrzak]

Lynn,good pics.There are certain sponges and algae that attack corals.I'm not sure that is what we are witnessing here.In any event,and I'm sure everyone will agree, you need to cut the 'infected' area of that coral skeleton off, and THROW IT AWAY -into a garbage can! Your coral can survive this and recover with the proper care.I have confidence in you....you are a NURSE! ;)

[Semi newbie]

Okay being a nurse makes me good with tubes and needles and gives me a comforting bedside manner (sometimes !!! :D ) But how in the world do I cut the infected part off? After I cut it off do I have to do anything special to the remaining healthy part? I will say one thing, whatever this stuff is, it spread very quickly!!!!!!

[Gary Majchrzak]

Semi: Regarding the operation before nursing the coral back to health.My tools for these operations are circa. 1800AD -a hammer and chisel.Sometimes I go high tech and grab the hacksaw.Playfair's array of fragging tools is better than what I got in the garage to work on my home repairs!You are going to find the skeleton on that coral to be rather soft and crumbly.{Relatively! - There are much denser coral skeletons to 'hack'at than Euphyllia species!}Just make sure to get the infected part separated from the healthy skeleton.I would place the coral back in the reef where it is somewhat distant from other corals and bathed in indirect currents.{I don't do 'dips!}Make no major tank parameter changes at this time.Good luck, Gary

[Playfair]

IMHO, I wouldn't frag the coral yet... It definitely looks like an infection from being stung. There's enough of the coral left that I think it would recover if you blow/siphon off any other "loose" material on the receeding edge. Just my .02

On the subject of the stuff growing on the sides, it looks in your pics to just be a type of algae that bores into coral skeleton, which sounds worse than it is. I don't remember the name, but it is mentioned in TRA vol1. All my LPS corals have this on it, and the coral does fine.

Other observations: The spot in the middle looks like it was damaged some time ago. Also, the flesh over the skeleton on the "good" section of coral looks to have been receding for some time, telling me that the coral hasn't been real happy for a while.

I guess this reefers recommendation is to move it to where the "hurting" edge gets decent current (not damaging), and blow/suck it off 3-4 times per day. You are trying to keep the dying edge from spreading on an already stressed animal. Don't shock it with much more light than it was getting, and don't handle any more than you have to. All hope is not lost, but if it doesn't stabilize soon (stop receeding) then splitting may be your last hope. If it is worse tonight, and you would like help, give me a call at home (in book) and I'll bring over my hammer :)

[Gary Majchrzak]

Lynn, was it stung? Mushrooms or green stars do have toxins that can overpower euphyllia corals...{all corals have some kind of 'defense'system}.If stung, it could cause the 'meltdown' on the half that is gone. If you think this dieoff is due to being stung by neighboring corals, fragging the dark stuff off would not be necessary...otherwise- start checking out hubbys workbench for potential tools to operate with :D .....

[Semi newbie]

It may very well have been stung as it was close to both green stars and mushrooms, neither of which I realized could get a Frogspawn. I kind of thought that the Frogspawn was the more dominant and could therefore hold it's own. I really do have a lot to learn. I am concerned that you think the coral wasn't happy for some time since it was very fully expanding and and waving in the current happily. I am not sure how I would have known this if it appeared so happy to me. Could it just be that it looks that way in the picture because I just picked it up and it was mad at me? Like I said before this spread very quickly, one day it looked perfectly happy and then boom, it didn't. I will try blowing the spot with a turkey baster and see what happens and then if I have to, do some surgery. I appreciate all your help and your offer to come over and help me separate the bad part playfair (Dave is your first name right?), I may just take you up on that if need be. Thank you all so much and I will keep you posted.....Lynn

[cperson]

You think you have a lot to learn, I can't even tell the difference between a frogspawn or a hammer without looking at a picture.:confused:

BTW, I have the same morph of this euphyllia species, except it grows upright with braches. Don't you love the colors? Dave P. has a part of this one too.

[Semi newbie]

I do love this coral and have good news to report. No more seems to have wasted away. I am going to go turkey baster it right now and keep my fingers crossed. One thing I really enjoy is fellow reefers who can admit they have a lot to learn!!!!

[saltwaterfishlover]

I know I have tons to learn.
only 2 things I know for sure

1 if my prefilter box water level gets high change the filter

2 if the water in the sump gets to low check the prefilter pad if that isnt the culprit add more water....

other than that i got lots to learn


;)

[Semi newbie]

Hey! I know that too! The rest seems to be ever evolving so even if you do think you learn it,wait and it will change!!!! I think that is one thing I love about this hobby. There are so many different ways to do the same types of things!