Pondering potential possibilities

[BamaCoach]

Hello,

New here to RC, have been on another board and taking "baby steps" on the SW side for a little over a year now.

Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated :)

A little history/background

1. got a 180g, predrilled (3 holes), w/corner overflow tank about a year ago.

2. read and studied sites like this for about a year before putting anything in the tank...(combination of patience and an enormous desire to not waste money :D ).

3. around Christmas I began getting ready to cycle tank, everything is plumbed and ready....was planning on a FOWLR.

4. did not want to get into reef, yet, for several reasons.....(refer back to desire not to waste money, ie a fish/coral graveyard)

5. Setup as of now: 180g tank, plumbed to a 30g tank (future refugium), and a 30g sump...., a 4-6 inch DSB and 200+g of SW

6. OK, at this point I am chomping at the bit ready to see something start swimming........but


Change of plans:

1. in my original plans I did not want to get too "extravagant" because I knew I would be moving in 4-5 years.....did not want a large rock wall to break down etc.... and was going to use this time as my hands on learning time.

2. Now plans have changed, (moving) moved up to the 2-3 year time frame.

3. Unexpected expenses on future home site, current home site, new garden tiller, child, wife, etc., etc. and I just do not want to invest large amounts of money into LR and several fish etc. only to risk losing a lot of it in 2 years time during the move, but dang it I am tired of looking at a tank of SW circling around in my living room.

Thoughts:

1. Using the tank for an aggressive/predator for the next few years. Something which would not require a large investment in LR which might be lost, (the life, not the rock itself) in a couple of years. Also, a single specimen could be handled much more efficiently than several when time for the move comes.

2. Not to worry, I would not plan on disposing of this fish when the tank and myself are relocated....I would have no problem returning the fish to the LFS, even if it meant no return credit for me and who knows I may decide I want to continue as is.

Other Notes:
1. I do not mind spending the money for something but I just do not want to waste it, (LR which is ruined during an extended move). If I must I can wait a couple more years to prevent that from happening.

2. I would think feeding an aggressive/predator would/could be expensive but I do not mind that...I would not see that as wasting my money....

Anyway, just wanted someone's thoughts on my situation and if you agree with this plan what are some possibilities for inhabitants.....my research has been on community type fish and this is completely new to me. :confused:

Thanks

[FMarini]

Bama coach;
great name....do you have any affiliation w/ UA?
<img src="http://www.reefcentral.com/images/welcome.gif"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

I do have alot of ideas but need more specifics from you

frank

[BamaCoach]

Thanks,

No affiliation with UA, other than paying tuition, and parking tickets :D . My goals of being a "big time" coach changed once the wife and child arrived. I am a high school teacher/coach in Alabama, thus the name.

More details:
I do not have my information in front of me, but I will give you as much as I can remember..... When I get home I can get my log sheet and give you exact info. I am new at this so if I need to provide different info let me know.....

Water Flow:
1. tank has a corner overflow with 3 predrilled holes.

2. Two of the holes are plumbed as 1 inch drain lines.....one takes water directly to the 30g sump, (has 1 ball valve) for flow adjustment.....the other drain line takes water to both the sump and the 30g refugium, this line has three ball valves, one ball valve which serves as flow control for the entire line, one which can adjust flow into the sump and the last which can adjust flow into the refugium. (the term refugium is used loosely as that is what I intended this tank to be but it is not a functioning refugium as of yet)

3. The return line is 3/4 inch PVC and is fed by a nonsubmerged Little Giant Pump. (I do not have specifics of the pump but can post them later) this return line has a ball valve for flow adjustment as well. the pump more than handles the amount of water which drains from my tank....I am forced to throttle it back, (with the ball valve), or risk running dry.

4. The refugium is connected to the sump by a small pump which was rated around 15g per hour. I wanted this slow turnover rate in the refugium. This pump also creates a natural siphon which keeps the water level in the two tanks equalized in the event of a powerfailure.

Lighting:
1. Normal output flourescent.... I knew this would have to be upgraded fairly quickly. I love DIY projects and was looking around for ideas when my plan started changing.

Filtration:
1. 4-6 inch DSB in place and ready for any needed life. As of now it only has bacterial life.

2. Potential refugium

3. A canister filter which can be used as needed

Water Parameters:

1. Planning on using my tap water. I live in a rural area so it would be well water. My original tests on this water appeared satisfactory except it did have a measurable level of nitrate, out of the tap. (I can post numbers once I have my log sheet)

2. PH, out of the tap, is around 8.2...again I need my sheet to be sure

Other Info:
1. Have 2 heaters

2. Tank is completely covered

3. I have two Maxi Jet powerheads, (larger model but am not sure of the gph) which can be used.

4. Was planning on skimmerless, but I do have a skimmer I built from plans found at OZREEF, I think that was the site....

5. I do not want anything which is poisonous, small child in the house. Also, I tend to be a bit meticulous, or as some people like to say "A Neat Freak" and I do not want to be too worried about sticking my hand in to clean the tank :)

I am sure I have provided you with info you probably did not need and left out needed info, but this is just what comes to mind right now. Also, I do not plan on going out a buying something this weekend, I want to make sure this is what I want before doing it. So any advice, general or specific to my needs would be appreciated.

Thanks

[BamaCoach]

Frank,

Got so caught up in my details I forgot to tell you.... nice pictures!

Going back to look at them a little more closely now.

BC

[cruzer]

BamaCoach,

Do you already know were you are moving to, if so how far away is it?
Here are my thoughts for what it's worth. If you already have the equipment and are planning on moving it to your new place then I would say go for it. In my experience LR holds it's value better than equipment does. If you buy some rock and sell it when you move you still may get 75% of the cost back. The money that you loose IMHO is not wasted as you would be able to enjoy it for a couple of years. It may not make good business since but if you look at it as a hobby then it looks different to me. Get some rock and set up a simple FOWLR system and gain a couple years of hands on experience. When you move depending on how far away you could move your rock and live stock, or sell it and start it again. By the time you are moved and settled you might be ahead of the game when you attempt corals and have great success. Bottom line, to me a few hundred bucks lost is a fair price for the enjoyment I get out of my tanks for a couple of years. HTH,

Rob,

[BamaCoach]

Cruzer,

I have had those same thoughts, myself.....I have kinda felt like the dog chasing his tail on this. After examining this alternative I may very well end up doing as you suggest. I just want to see what other options are available.

The move will not be a long distance move. When I said an extended move I was refering to the time I was figuring the move would take, I know I was not very clear on that :) . In my profession I have already had several moves and just figured that when the time came the tanks were going to be neglected for several days. Especially when setting up in the new place.

Another concern I had with the FOWLR was I was under the impression that it would take 1-2 years to get everything "working" properly and then I would break it down and start over again. I was hoping to find something to inhabit this tank which does not require a large investment in LR or time to get "working", is interesting and appealing. I may be "barking up the wrong tree", but I knew someone here could help me.

I guess one of my problems is I tend to "think" too much, (I make no promises about the quality....just the quantity ;) ) and am constantly coming up with potential problems. I guess I am just going to have to pick an option and dive in..... but beofre I do I am going to think about it :D

Thanks,

BC

[BamaCoach]

Frank,

Must be tough trying to be a mind reader :)

A little more info on what I would like for my tank: (I think)

1. A small number of inhabitants

2. inhabitants which require little LR,

3. something hardy, I am a beginner

4. I also do not want the tank to look "empty", I would like something which is active and a little larger than the community fish I have been looking at for the past year.

5. maintenance requirements should not be a concern....my wife thinks I am strange and one of the reasons, :D , is I actually enjoy cleaning my FW aquarium. i.e I would not be scared away of a fish if you told me I was going to need to be the cleanup crew.

6. feeding requirements could be problematic: I live in a rural area and finding some foods might be difficult, but not impossible. (I have seen posts describing homemade foods from store bought seafoods.... this could be done, I would just need to hitch up the horse and go into town to buy supplies :D )

I assume that some amount of LR is beneficial for any potential inhabitant. But the pictures I see of community tanks have these enormous rock walls and everything I read says to try for a minimum of 1lb per gallon. I do not want to risk losing that much of an investment in my future move nor do I want to move 200lbs of rock. I am thinking that going with a larger aggressive/predator would reduce the LR requirements which is my main goal for the next couple of years.

I know I am giving you info in a piecemeal fashion but hope this helps.

Thanks

BC

[cruzer]

Hello again,

I do not think it takes most people a year or two to get a FOWLR system stable. I think it is the other way around. I Know my system was harder to keep stable until I had LR in the system. How much do you need, many different opinions. In my 180 I have about 150-200 LB's. With the 180 you have the option of placing the rock in such a way that it does not look like a wall of rock because of the width. I have a Porky Puffer, Assasi(sic) Trigger, Blue jaw Trigger and a small Red Coris Wrasse. The rock work provides hiding places and is fun to watch them navigate the different caves and ledges I built for them. Remember if you are going to keep large fish they are messy and require a good sound filtration system to be healthy. Most would say a good skimmer is a must and it is difficult to have a clean up crew when the fish see's it as a nice snack. If you are not going to have much rock then you need to make up for the filtration (bio) some were like a trickle filter or something. Many people state that a sand bed provides more surface area for good bio filtration than rock does and it probably does. My system is an on going, growing creature of it's own. I have three tanks that share the same sump and equipment and will not have the system finished for another year or so, if it will ever be truly finished. If you look at my occupation you will realize I am not new to moving and do understand were you are coming from.

Rob,

[BamaCoach]

Cruzer

Thanks,

Yeah, I can see that you have probably had to make a move or two yourself......

I was concerned about the absence of a skimmer on my system and figured that would raise a red flag to those of you in the know.

As I was reading posts, I came across a thread in which 2 "old timers" were discussing their first tank and how everything had to be just perfect. One of them compared it to the first child syndrome. I guess that is my downfall here....I am thinking this tank has got to be perfect. I had even "decided" to leave the tank empty for these couple of years and start it back up after the move. But I do not think I am that patient :) .

I had just read an earlier post of yours when you briefly described your 3 tank setup. And all 3 feed into the same sump. That is interesting and I will probably be asking you some more questions about it. I am planning on building a house and the basement will be devoted to me, well at least one room :D , and I have thought about the addition of an "inwall" tank. That is a whole other topic/thread I guess.....first things first, my first tank.

If I decide to start my FOWLR I definately will take the approach you suggest, a work in progress, start with a decent amount of LR and add fish as I am able...even if I do not reach that 1 to 11/2lbs of LR per gallon goal.


I am still interested in exploring other possibilities.... but I will make this pledge, I will decide which route I am going to take by the end of this weekend, tired of chasing my tail on this issue :D .


Thanks
BC

[BamaCoach]

Water parameters

These were taken from my first, and only, SW mixture.....

1. Specific Gravity = 1.027 (using a Tropic Marin hydrometer)

2. pH = 8.4 (using Tropic Marin Test kit)

3. Alkalinity = 16.5

4. Nitrite = 0.1 ppm

5. Nitrate = 10 ppm

6. Ammonium = between 1.0 and 3.0 ppm, test kit is not very specific at this upper end of the scale...don't guess it matters once it reaches this level

I am going to test my tap water and then retest my SW mix and will post any changes. I can turn my city water on if it proves to be high enough quality. Or invest in a RO/DI unit. Or can I work around and correct the aboe problem(s).

Thanks

BC

[cruzer]

BamaCoach,

Couple of questions. What are you cycling the tank with? Do you have any live stock in the tank already??

You salinity is a little high, try for about .025 and you ALK does not make since to me. If you are measuring in DKH then it is high if you are not then it is through the roof. Should be about 8 DKH or about 3 with the other measurement.

Rob,

[cruzer]

I went through and re-read the thread and you do not mention any live stock. If you are cycling with fish or any other living thing it is not going to make it with an ammonia reading in the 2-3 mark. If you have nothing cycling then your readings are off.

Rob

[cruzer]

One more thing,

I do not mind at all helping you out, but you would get a lot more opinions and answers from different people if you posted in the New to Hobby, general discussion area. Like I said I do not mind, but it never hurts to get more opinions and other peoples experience.

Rob,

[BamaCoach]

Cruzer

Thanks

Yeah, This thread has kinda taken a differnet turn from what I originally intended. I will probably ask some questions on the nebie forum tomorrow.

Nothing in tank but water, sand, and some shells.... Had planned on starting a cycle but hve not.

I just retested my tap water:

1. pH = 7.4 (this is strange to me, I have fw for 2+ years and this is the first time my tap water has ever tested below 8.0)

2. Alkalinity = 10 according to my manual that would be 10 dKH

3. No trace of nitrite or nitrate

4. Ammonium appeared to be above 3 with this test ??

I have looked at my test kit, I mail ordered it around Christmas, I now see a date, I assume to be an expiration date, Feb. 2002. Hopefully I have just gotten a lemon test kit and my water parameters are not that out of whack. I am going to order a new test kit and also have a "lfs" perform tests on my water. Take a few days, my "lfs" is a 2hr drive, one way.

Thanks

BC

[BamaCoach]

Cruzer

Ammonia readings

On my original test, when ammonia was between 2-3, the test was performed twice. I have the results written down twice and both ar ethe same. Now with the result I got tonight from my tap water I am hoping I just have an expired reagent for that test.


Thanks again

BC

[cruzer]

In my opinion the Salifert test kits are the best if you have them in your area.

Have you given any thought on how you are going to cycle the tank? Cycling with fish is a bad think IMHO. You run a good chance of bringing disease and unhealthy fish in your system. Look into cycling with LR or dead shrimp. There are many articles around that cover a fishless cycle.

Rob,

[BamaCoach]

Cruzer,

I am going to start a thread in the newbie forum....about my water parameters, test kit questions, etc. I appreciate your help and wanted you to know where I would be if you had more help :)

Again thanks

Dr. Marini,

I came across your expert board last night and saw you were Dr. Marini. Hope I have not offended you by calling you Frank in my posts :) .

Thanks again and I am sure I will be back here once I get my water straightened out.

BC

[FMarini]

BC:
I'm glad everyone was able to jump in and help you along w/ some of the questions you had. It looks to me that a new thread in either the newbie forum might be in order.

Yes i have a terminal degree, I (we) try to be casual here, so you can address me either way. Your decision.

frank