Hair algae

[broden]

I'm fighting a massive hair algae issue right now and have tried just about everything ,any ideas?I've done water changes until blue in the face, marine sat and am now open to all ideas

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Bill

[jenghes]

Are you using Toledo City water? I used to use tap and had a massive dino outbreak. I cured that by altering the PH, but then had a massive HA outbreak. That was cured by pulling out all of the rocks and scrubbing them. I also added a Yellow Tang to munch on whatever came back. THEN.... I got a massive Cyano outbreak. I did water changes to the hilt, tried antibiotics, tried Marine SAT, overskimming, Phosphate removers, poly filters etc. Nothing worked until I switched to Wal-Mart distilled water. I plan on buying my own RO/DI and started with the distilled water to prove that it would cure my problem.

good luck

Jen

[AnnArborBuck]

I use Toledo City water and I haven't had an issue. I use all kalk water as all of my make up water so the high pH helps to precipitate things like phosphate out of the water. All city water does contain phosphate as it is an additive that is used to prevent the pipes from rusting.

If you are getting HA you have too much phosphate in the tank. Do you grow any macro algae, if so do you have enough Iron in the water to help them out compete the HA? Marcros need iron to really grow, without enough iron you will see poor growth and thus very little nutrient uptake.

Do you have an herbivors? How often do you feed (I don't feed very often, 4 times a week maybe).

The couple of times that I do see HA i pull as much of it out as possible and scrub the rock with a tooth brush to try to get all remaining parts off the rock. Once I knock it down to a reasonable height my tang takes care of the rest for me.

[Aquatic Aquaman]

Bill how big is your tank and what is your fish load like. If you don't have a tang I've got a sailfin for you to munch on your HA. Thats why I got mine in the first place and in a week he mowed everything down. He's the biggest pig in the world.

[jenghes]

Originally posted by AnnArborBuck
I use Toledo City water and I haven't had an issue. I use all kalk water as all of my make up water so the high pH helps to precipitate things like phosphate out of the water. All city water does contain phosphate as it is an additive that is used to prevent the pipes from rusting.
I also use kalk water - did not fix the problem. Too much phosphate is not good for our tanks, something undesireable will eventually grow. It better to not have the excesive PO4, than try to precipitate it out. Using too much kalk can also throw your CA and Alk way off. Be real carefull and test your parameters if you try this.

Originally posted by AnnArborBuck If you are getting HA you have too much phosphate in the tank. Do you grow any macro algae, if so do you have enough Iron in the water to help them out compete the HA? Marcros need iron to really grow, without enough iron you will see poor growth and thus very little nutrient uptake.
Too much Phosphate comes from the tap water. I too grew macro algea, still did not fix the problem. My macro grew like crazy and I prune it regularly.

Originally posted by AnnArborBuck Do you have an herbivors? How often do you feed (I don't feed very often, 4 times a week maybe).
I too had 2 tangs (Regal and Yellow) as herbivores... still had HA.

Originally posted by AnnArborBuck The couple of times that I do see HA i pull as much of it out as possible and scrub the rock with a tooth brush to try to get all remaining parts off the rock. Once I knock it down to a reasonable height my tang takes care of the rest for me.
It is better not to have it grow in the first place. I hate taking all my rocks out of the tank to scrub. Prevention works so much better for me.

[AnnArborBuck]

Originally posted by tjghes
I also use kalk water - did not fix the problem. Too much phosphate is not good for our tanks, something undesireable will eventually grow. It better to not have the excesive PO4, than try to precipitate it out. Using too much kalk can also throw your CA and Alk way off. Be real carefull and test your parameters if you try this.

My evaporation rate isn't very high, maybe 4 gallons every 2 weeks, so I really am not adding that much kalk. The couple of times I have tested my params over the past couple of years everything was fine. I am sure if I had to add 2 gallons a day to my tank it would be an issue, but I don't. I was just stating that tap water might not be the problem, thats all

Too much Phosphate comes from the tap water. I too grew macro algea, still did not fix the problem. My macro grew like crazy and I prune it regularly.

Phosphate comes from lots and lots of places. It comes in the food we feed, anything we may add to our tank (including the makeup water). If phosphate only came from tap water then there is no way Scott would have algae problems as he only uses RO water. I don't have any algae problems (except for minor issues every 6 months or so) and I use tap water. hmmm.


I too had 2 tangs (Regal and Yellow) as herbivores... still had HA.

Maybe you had too many fish, feeding too much? Not all tangs will eat HA, especially if you feed them. Since I don't feed mine very much he spends alot of time picking at the rocks. That could also be why he hasn't grown much in the past 2 years, but I am ok with that.

It is better not to have it grow in the first place. I hate taking all my rocks out of the tank to scrub. Prevention works so much better for me.

I agree with this totally. My point was that if I even start to see an issue I jump on it so it doesn't get out of control. It is easier to get HA off of one rock then off of every rock.

Back to Broden's HA issue. Do you have a sand bed, bare bottom, or crushed gravel. I have only ever had a very fine crushed gravel and I find that a deep cleaning of this bed is needed every now and then. Over time the nutrients build up in the gravel and then they break down into phosphates and nitrate that then feed the algae. What I do is syphon the bottom when doing water changes, seems easy enough. I will also at times syphon the gravel crud into a 5 gallon bucket where I let it settle for a couple of hours. The crud will settle to the bottom and the water above it will become clear again. I then add the clear water back into the tank, this way I don't have to do a water change if I am feeling lazy. It is amazing how much crud accumulates at the bottom of your tank.


I also spend sometime every couple of days really blowing my rocks out with a turkey baster, I try to get all of the detrius out of the rocks into the water column where my skimmer can get the crud out. I will also run a diamateous earth filter every once in awhile to really clean the water, that gets the water sparking clean. I used to run a small amount of ozone and that seemed to really help keep algae in check and it helped keep the water very clear (no yellowing at all).

I have purigen in a small HOB filter and that hasn't hurt anything to say the least. I have also run polyfilters in the past, they pull tons of nasties out.

Just some food for thought.

[jenghes]

I doubt that I have too many fish - 5 fish in a 92 gallon + 20 gallon sump. All that I am saying is that I tried about everything and nothing worked EXCEPT changing the water source. Bingo! problem solved.

From speaking with Scott in the past, I believe that he uses RO water, not RO/DI. RO water should still have PO4, it is the DI stage that removes PO4. RO/DI is best then RO then tap. I even tried the RO water that came from the tap at Kroger. It did not work and it tested high for PO4.

I agree, I think that we need more info from Broden to fully answer his questions.

Broden - What are the test results for your water:
PH
Alk
Nitrite
Nitrate
PO4
CA
Temperature

What type of system (just as A2Buck asked)
Sump? Size?
Fuge? Size?
Substrate?
Skimmer?
Water Source?
Size of tank?
How many and type of fish?

Jen

[weimers75]

I too have a sailfin tang and he does a great job eating hair algae...he is truly a big. He's always fat. I also have a lawnmower blenny, and he helps keep it off the glass. I have not had much of a problem with HA, but then again I grow chaeto in the tank, and with the sailfin and lawnmower have not had problems. I also use exclusively city water...and have not had a problem.

[Aquatic Aquaman]

Sailfins rock except they're fat and eat way to much and need to be in at least a 90 gallon tank.

[jenghes]

broden,

check out spud's post about the urchin. It may work well for your issue.

Jen

[broden]

Tank size is 55gal,all my params are right where they should be
fish load is light as I only have a clown ,engineer goby,royal gramma and 2 damsels.I live in Napoleon and use there water until I can buy a RO/DI system as far as skimmer right now I have a seaclone and Tidepool sump I also am running a uv sterilizer.my tank bottom is bare I have gsp, an acan lord, kenya tree, Frog spawn ,flame tip coral ,pulsing xenia and some clove polyp and also a couple of mushrooms.

Thanks for all the input

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Bill

[jenghes]

I don't know the Nappy water source. IMO it is a prime candidate. Have you tested for PO4?

I would suggest trying Wal-Mart distilled water for your water changes for a while to see if it helps the problem. I made the switch and it took about 2 months for the problem to be gone.

[broden]

Have'nt checked PO4 yet but I'm thinking possibly the water source might be a big issue,I'm going to start buying RO at the local Culligan outlet and see what that will do for me

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Bill

[jenghes]

RO only will not take care of PO4. Make sure that you get DI as well to get rid of PO4.

[weimers75]

You can also buy phosphate absorbents to put in your filter and they're usually much cheaper (and easier) than buying water all the time.

[jenghes]

Originally posted by weimers75
You can also buy phosphate absorbents to put in your filter and they're usually much cheaper (and easier) than buying water all the time.

You can do this, but make sure you use the iron based ones not the Aluminum based ones (Like PhosGuard), I have heard that the AL based ones leach AL into your system and have caused many people problems. I have only heard of a few people having problems with the Fe based ones. IME, this did not work for me though. As I said before, I tried everything and wasted a lot of money trying all these products. The only thing that worked was changing my water source. It would have saved me a lot of money on phosphate pads, poly-filters, phosphate grandules, Marine SAT... etc, etc, etc. I wish I would have made the change a lot faster.

I have found that a little extra work of prevention saved me a lot of headaches later.

Jen

[Spuds725]

I'd get some snails but if you have massive ammounts, you will have a poop problem instead of a hair algae problem-- 6 turbos would be a good start but only if you have a good skimmer.

I'd start taking some rock out with each water change--- dividing the water you take out, scrubbing rock while submerged in one bucket, rinsing in the other bucket, and then returning to your tank.... the only down side of this is you will lose some critters probably living in the hair algae....

what kind of a skimmer are you running??

Sump/fuge???

I imagine with your light bioload you shouldn't be having these problems unless you are way overfeeding-- how much and how often are you feeding???

I'm betting its your water (as suggested earlier).. your parameters are probably ok since the hair algae is pulling it all out a benefit of alot of hair algae... the scrubbing I described above will export the nutrients from the tank while the snails will just releast them back to the water (after its broken down)....

I'd recommend a tang if you had a bigger tank...but of course this will only convert your hair algae back to poop form.... :rollface:

[jenghes]

[i]
I'm betting its your water.. your parameters are probably ok since the hair algae is pulling it all out... [/B]

I agree. The reason that your "Changing water until you are blue in the face" is not working is because every time you perform a water change, you add more food to feed that HA.

[broden]

I'm using a seaclone skimmer for know and it seems to produce about a half cup of skimate every two to three days.I quit using marine sat because it seems to be making my acan alittle mad:(
as far as water I'm changimg it abot 5 gal a week.Do you know if culligan uses RO/DI or is it just RO?Last week I changed about twenty gal.

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Bill

[jenghes]

I have no idea, however if it is drinking water it is probably RO only. The DI is so stripped of all trace elements, causing it to taste bad. Call them and ask. Let me know if you are in Maumee sometime, I'll test it for PO4 since you don't have a test.

Jen

[broden]

Thanks Jen I'm going to go have sea2sea test it for PO4 tomorrow.

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Bill

[broden]

While I'm thinking of it when is your meeting going to be again, I might try to make the trip up to meet you guys and hopefully learn a few things since this is my first reef

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Bill

[jenghes]

the 27th of November.

You may want to think about that free urchin if it is still available. Great for eating HA.

Is Sea2sea nice? I have been meaning to make the trip sometime. Worth an hour drive?

[broden]

I think they are but I'm only ten minutes from there .He can be alittle pricey but I think it is worth the drive just to check out something new.The guys that own it seem to know what they are doing and are real helpful if you have a problem.

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Bill

[Spuds725]

Thats pretty good for a seaclone-- you must have the right touch (I know they need to be dialed in right to make skimmate)-- I ran one for a few years in my sump-- supposedly better then HOB.

[broden]

I bought it not knowing there reputation, then after I found out I looked on the net and did all the mods and now it seems to do ok.I will probably upgrade as soon as finances allow.

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Bill

[ohioreef]

I've put together a page on my site outlining my battle with HA and what worked for me.

www.ohioreef.com/hair.html

[broden]

Thanks Gary, I like your site and the info on HA.beleive it or not I too have been using fiber fill like mentioned in the post you mentioned and am going to replace it tomorrow when I go to my lfs. thanks again for the info

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Bill

[ohioreef]

No problem. That page is a work in progress. As I hear of other methods that have worked for people I will add them to the page.

[broden]

Finally fixed the hair algae problem :) got a 125gal tank for xmas:D
Jen would you be willing to part wth another frag of zoas.I'm not sure what happened to the frag I got from you but I would be willing to buy another one and possibly some other colors if you have some available
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Bill

[jenghes]

yup will part with more! I have 2 fragged now. Do you prefer that I ship it since you said that you don't get up here much?