stocking a 75

[jacksonpt]

Here's what I'm thinking about...

Dwarf Zebra Lionfish -or- Black Volitan Lionfish
Betta Grouper -or- Huma Huma Trigger
Tesselata Eel -or- Zebra Moray -or- Snowlfake Eel
one other fish, if I have room... suggestions? Maybe a porcupine puffer?

What do you think? I don't know much about aggressive critters (still doing my research).

[Mad Scientist]

Jackson, Looks like you have some nice choices there, I have a 75 with a lion and some angels (Lemonpeels) and a big ol' toadfish, although a 75gal is not a tiny tank, it's also not huge by ANY means. So, assuming you want to stock your tank and not have to pick up a 125gal in 6 months I would reccommned:

The dwarf, the trigger (juvinile), and the zebra moray. Just personal taste, as I said all the fish on your list are nice. I just feel the volitan, I have owned several, will grow a little faster than you might be planning. A good compromise between a dwarf and a volitan is a spotfin (to 8in), I haveone now and he has great markings.

Betta Groupers are nice also, but, it's hard to beat a nice huma, they are so much better tempered than clowns.

Zebra eels are not that bad on escaping (unlike snowflakes), will take food out of your hand, and are hardy and longlived.

Good luck, sounds like you are on the right path.

[Wolverine]

I would suggest that if you go with a lion, don't get the Huma trigger. Huma triggers have a tendency to pick on lionfish. They seem to know which spines to avoid, and go for the rest.

I agree with MS about the volitans. They get big in a hurry. A lot of people keep them in tanks of that size, but I prefer putting them in larger tanks where they really have some room to swim.

By betta grouper are you talking about the Comet (aka marine betta; Callopiesiops altivelis)? If so, those are pretty cool fish.

Dave

[Mad Scientist]

I agree with wolverine, that there is certainly chance that the huma might nip the lion, it depends on the individual temperment of the trigger, if both are kept toghter as juvies, though, I don't think you will have a problem, espically if you have some good rock work. I also assumed you meant a marine betta (Comet), they are VERY cool. Voltians can really be pigs and it's shame to keep a big one in an undersized tank.

[FMarini]

Hey guys:
good dicussion.
I think your choices are excellent. For a tank this size (or should i say small) i would definately skip the volitans or russells, mainly becuz its will quickly outgrow the tank, it might even out grow the other fish which means... eats. But my main reservation is that it will look really cramped in about 8 months.
That said, Mad scientist gives an excellent replacement, the antennata or radiata lions would be a decent compromise. They max out around 8-10" have much small pec fin spans, and act like lions. Actually antennatas are one of my fave lions.
Next the trigger issue.
I am alway leary of putting rhinecanthus triggers in w/ lions, as those showy pec fins tend to attract trigger attentions, and as wolverine mentioned i have also seen triggers literally snap the poisonous dorsal spines off, NOT GOOD. So as a possible replacement for the rhinocanthus trigger may i recommend a planktonic feeding trigger, like a blue cheek, pinktailed, or crosshatch.

Otherwise the other fish would be fine. I will give you my experience w/ marine bettas (or comets). They are great hardy tankmates which are way too shy to be a good fish only tank fish. Mine took almost yrs to stop hiding 24/7. Now its still only comeout during feeding time.

Last thing about the eels. i will agree w/ the gang about the zebras. I currently have 2 in my 180gal. Great hardy eel. W/ one caveat in a small tank. They are clumsy as heck, if you have any small rockwork they will tumble it, they get real thick and beefy. If you can cover the tank w/ eggcrating you can consider a snowflake which will stay thinner and smaller.

One thing we haven't talked about is filtration. W/ this volume of water and all these meat eaters youre gonna be fighting some water quality issues. Do you have a wet/dry or fluidized bed. Big time skimmer. Live rock? Any ideas
frank

[Mad Scientist]

Filtration for tanks containing large aggressize fish is an interesting topic, given that you will have a very high bio-load, heck, you might even be putting live food in.

While live rock and natural methods are certainly great for reefs where you need real low nitrate l'm not sure the case is as clear for fish only systems with large, heavy feeding fish. Wet/dry, atlhough they can be nitrate factories are so effecinet that you will not be seeing NH4 or NO2 even if you have lots of undigested protein kicking around, they can handle it. In my 75, I have about 60lbs of live rock and a big wet/dry sump.

One thing I hope we can agree on is the benefits of having a big skimmer on these kinds of tanks, where overskimming on a reef might be a problems (pulling of Ca+) I say, go all out on fish only, I also like put on a UV (who care about plankton in a fish only) this helps keep pathogens at low levels and will help with nusaince alage that my be assoicated with higher nirtate levels.

What do you guys think, am I stuck in the 1980s still using wet/dry on fish only systems?


I stronly agree about zebras being real clumsey, they can do a number on unsecure rock work.

[FMarini]

Mad:
Actually in the post above your I mention that a wet/dry or fluidized bed might be is only solution here. I think wet/drys have there place and they can be problematic, but if you want meat eaters and have small tanks, these are very useful.
I used one on my 180gal full of carnivoirse for almost 7yrs. Sure i had nitrates but they were managable, and the fish never seemed concerned.
I think in this scenario, they would be fine.

A big time skimmer is crtical in a tank w/ this bioload. I would even advocate something along the lines of a becketheaded skimmer so he gets high volume processing as well as efficent DOM skimming. W/ critters like this, a skimmer is mandatory

my opinion
frank

[Mad Scientist]

Frank, I could not agree more, in a fish only system (where some nitrate is not a real problem) and one is keeping large meat eaters, I think wet/dry or fluv. bed is the wayto go, these filters are just so effective at pulling out NH4 and N02.

[EdKruzel]

Hey Frank,

I'd like to throw in my $.02 worth.

The dwarf species is more than suited for the 75gal. I am one of the few that believe puffers are for species tanks.

So a nice eel, dwarf lion and a marine betta would make a great display. Since none are herbivorous, and all are big eater, I would recommend a variety of plants. This will also help to keep the nitrates lower.

I also agree that a big skimmer is a necessity, but what about a DSB? If nowhere else, in the sump?

My 120gal has a DSB, containing Volitan, Cherry Grouper, and a Navarchus.
I have razor, blade, grape, red grape, and fern caleurpa.

Good Luck

[Mad Scientist]

Ed,
I have a CC bed in my 75 now and (although it was a lot cheaper than a deep sand bed) it is a real nitrate factory and needs to be vacumed alot, I have a DSB in my reef tank and love it. They are the way to go. I don't think there is anything wrong with keeping a refugium on a fish only tank.

[FMarini]

Hi:
Thanks for the suggestions. I never thought about plants, mainly becuz they require additional work in pruning them. They also require lighting which I will not add to my tank.
The idea of maybe a sump w/ a DSB and plants might be useful, but i still think you'll max out the capacity of the DSB unless the sump is as large as the main system. Maybe the sump will be useful in control nitrates.

I'm on the fence w/ just dwarf lions in a 75gal. Even the largest radiata is had still would have fit into a 75gal comfortable.They are pretty inactive fish (as are the antennata), so either species (dwarf or mid bodied) should be acceptable.

I have a CC substrate, I vacuum like crazy, and still have nitrate issues, but they are in what i would consider an acceptable range. So vacuumin is not a complete answer.

Whats funny is Jacksonpt started this thread and he is yet to weigh in w/ any comments. I would like to see which way hes going. Its his tank

frank

[Mad Scientist]

Great pics franks, those lions all look pretty happy, that fu manku has some great colors. Nice Tusk as well. Any 'inside' tips on lion feeding? I feed almost excusively silver sides and cocktail shirmp.

[EdKruzel]

Frank,
I had a little advantage when I set up the 120, it was a reef tank previously. Anyway, I had 96watt PC's and a Large Turbo Floater before I began.

I placed about 30lbs of LR and used some sand from my reef to seed the tank. I did a mass order on plants from IA and added a Chocolate Chip Star for cleanup on the larger chunks.

The tank has a high pod population but the worms get replenished monthly (Damn Starfish). Bristle worms are building in numbers (mostly in the rocks).

I feed moderately on Mon & Wed, and heavy on Fri.
I feed the Navarchus every day however it's smaller foods that do the grouper and lion no good. Greens, plankton, brine, clam.
Constant variations and all soaked in Selcon.

The stable diet for the two "pigs" are tiger shrimp with vein and shell. Chopped to bite sized chunks. Squid with eyeballs and stuffed with OSI flake. Any kind of fish on sale that week with skin. Again all items soaked with Selcon. Beware of too much Octopus, it coats the skimmer with oils.
I find it very important to stuff veggie substances in there food for extra vitamins. Remember, the biggest and baddest carnivores eat the stomach and other organs first, Fish in the wild eat the whole fish, so there must be something to carnivores and there veggies. It sure hasn't hurt my fish.

My nitrates never exceed 10ppm's. I do a 10% water change a month and crop some of the plant about that time as well.

I'm sure Frank has something to add, just check his site for how healthy his fish appear.

There our guest, not pets.

[EdKruzel]

Wish I had a better camera.:rolleyes:

[EdKruzel]

These were taken with an 8mm and captured to my hard drive.

I really need to go buy that digital sony w/5gizzilion pixel or something like that.