Help -- tangs won't eat thier veggies

[harris611]

I've got a 6" Naso and a 3.5" yellow tang that will only eat formula one flake. I can't get them to eat any green stuff.

The Naso is starting to get lethargic, and I think its from stress and diet. I've had her about two months and was doing really well -- some scratches on her sides healed and her streamers started growing out.

I have tried formula two flakes, formula two cubes, nori, seaweed selects, macro aglea from the fuge and sea veggies. I have also tried soaking form two flakes in selcon.

I generally feed three to four days a week, twice a day and regularly go a couple days without feeding. I have to admit that I have still been overfeeding when I do feed and have some rising phosphate levels becuase of the heavy flake use. Should I be willing to starve them a little more?

Any ideas?

Harris611

[Kenzy]

Try some Romane lettuce in a lettuce clip. When I added my tangs
thats what I started them off on. Now they tear into what ever I put into the clip.

[Anemone]

IME, it often takes tangs several days to "recognize" that the algae clip contains food. You can help them out by always putting the clip in the same place. Put a small square of nori or seaweed selects in the clip and leave it. Next day, do the same thing. Day after, ditto. You can use different types of seaweed selects or alternate between types of food - just put the clip back in the same place. They eventually get the idea, then they'll attack the clip before you can get it attached to the wall.

Kevin

[Kenzy]

P.S.

I wouldn't skimp on feeding them right now, if they're eating flake then let them have it. Once they do start to take other foods then you might make some changes in how much you feed.

[Frisco]

[moved]

[tang named junkyard]

what is formula 2? chopped liver?

[naesco]

I would be concerned with the lethargic naso. They often seem to do well for a while stop eating and go downhill.
First check your water conditions to make sure everything is pristine. Do a water change if you have not done so in a while
Try the following:
Place a large powerhead in the tangs swimming area. Drop flake, shrimp and pieces of nori in the flow. It may get her excited to eat.
Buy some garlic extract (not garlic juice) and soak the food in it for about 20 minutes. Sometimes the garlic flavour encourages the tangs to eat.
Buy some brown algae which naso's prefer to eat. Brown algae is this tangs natural food.
Place an air diffuser in the tank away from any sponge. Tangs like highly oxygenated water.
Why do you think your tang is stressed?
For the benefit of others who may be considering a naso tang, the ideal size is around 4 inches. Fish smaller or larger tend to be problematic. Never buy those skinny ones. Buy always a plump fish and SEE it agressively eating in the LFS or pass on the fish.

[harris611]

Okay--

I'll try the brown seaweed in garlic and keep putting it up.

Junkyard -- Formula Two is the veregtarian version of flake food

Naesco -- I think she is stressed because since I took all of the rock out two days ago to get two anthias and a couple chromis that were too smart to trap she has been acting all freaked out. That is when she stopped eating and is staying in one place instead of following me back and forth in the front of the tank.

Thanks for the advice -- I'll see if it works.

Harris611

[naesco]

Feed than after a few minutes close the lights off for a whole day and stay away from her tank and keep your hands out of her tank.
That will give her a day to relax because she is scared of you. Than watch her at a distance until she gets used to you again.
Sometimes we only stress our fish further with our concern and constant looking in to see if it is OK.
Keep a sharp lookout for any signs of ich.

[hcs3]

keep trying the brown nori. day after day after day...

if you must use romaine lettuce, make sure you boil it first. this will make it digestible to the surgeonfish. otherwise the fish is incapable of breaking down the cellular structure of the lettuce.

romaine lettuce has very little nutritional value. i would highly recommend you don't feed it, but rather stick with dried marine algae.

HTH

henry

[harris611]

Okay -- now she is not eating at all and is hovering in only one spot.

Starting to panic -- I do not want to loose her.

What can I do short term to get her actively eating again and healthy enough to train on the veggies?

Thanks

[BrianD]

The Naso tang I had would only eat the red Seaweed Select. He seemed to ignore other varieties, but ate the red algae voraciously.

FWIW, Fenner attributes a "sulking", non-eating tang to perhaps too small a tank or incompatible tankmates.

Brian

[harris611]

BrinaD--

Well, its a 200g tank with only 5 chromis, a small yellow tang (which acts like the naso's affectionate little brother -- NO aggression) and a recently added square spot anthia.

She had been very active and since I only have 150# of rock in the tank there is plenty of swimming room.

Why would she all of a sudden stop eating the Form I flake? Have I messed up her GI tract with the lack of veggies?

I'll start trying a bunch of different kinds of seaweed.

Any other insight would be appreciated.

[BrianD]

Harris

I didn't mean say to your tank wasn't adequate. Without knowing every one of your tank parameters, it is hard to eliminate the ones that are not plausible.

Good luck.

Brian

[naesco]

So where is the tang now?
Back at the LFS?
In your Qt?
In your main tank?
Thank you

[harris611]

Okay--

Naso is looking a little better today and ate some of the formula I flake that she has been eating, but is still lethargic and floating in one spot.

I think that removing the rock and stirring all the gunk into the water had a bad effect in some way -- the problems started right after that.

I'm going to do a big water change this afternoon -- I don't have a QT tank so I'll have to treat in the main tank.

I'm going to continue to try a bunch of different veggie options soaked in garlic extract.

I'll keep you posted.

[thebigblue]

harris

i put a 5-6" naso in my 125 two weeks ago...(of course i ordered a 2-3"er but thats a different link...)

he seemed to be pretty timid but would come out to graze on my supply of brown sargassum weed growing out of my new 150#s of LR...i never ever noticed him eating anything other than this...he wont touch the formula reef flakes or the frozen mysis i feed his tankmates...

after two weeks he has pretty much munched it all and i noticed him swimming out and about alot more not being as scared....he seems to be pacing more and maybe is hungry?...i offered the red seaweed selects the last couple nites but to no avail...i will keep trying...

if i think hes just too big for my tank (which i suspected anyway) then he will go to a friend or to a LFS for credit...

keep me posted

FWIW

brad

[naesco]

Continue to feed as much as you can of the various garlic food you are trying.
What are you doing a water change?
Your tang is already freaked by your previous messing around in the tank.
Feed it, close the lights off for a day and keep your hands out of the tank.
Observe it from a distance until it gets used to you again.
I know you are trying to show your concern but all you are doing is stressing the tang further.
As long as she is eating it is OK for a few days.
Watch for ich

[harris611]

Okay--

Quick update.

Naso is back to normal after the lethargy, I guess brought on from the stirring up of all the detritus under the rocks. Much more active and "begging" for formula I flake.

Unfortunately, "normal" also means she still won't eat any veggies.

She is starting to get skinny and her gut is pinching. Can't feed her enough flake (its the wrong kind anyway) to fatten her up.

I have been offering red, purple, brown and green seaweed soaked in galic that she ignores. (Yellow tang looks like he is going to burst).

I'm going to try some romain this afternoon. Any other thoughts?

[Wolverine]

Have you tried going back to the Seaweed without soaking it in garlic? Now that the tang is acting more normal, he may be willing to try it. There's a chance that, just like with people, there may be some tangs that don't like garlic (I don't understand why one, tang or human, wouldn't, but it happens).

Dave

[naesco]

Yes and also try selcon soaked food. Try everything but don't get to the point that your hands are continually in her tank as the fish will be stressed at all times.

[hanyongun]

I had the same problem with a Yellow Tang in my tank. A friend suggested tearing brown seaweed into small pieces, soaking and feeding it with flakes. That worked for me. The Tang "accidentally" ate a piece of the seaweed and the rest is history.

[harris611]

Just wanted to update everyone who gave me a hand with this.

Good news is that I have gotten the Naso to eat Spirulina flakes like a pig and she is getting fat again.

She also still eats the Formula One, which does have some vegetable matter in it, and will sometimes take Formula Two frozen cubes (majority veggie) if soaked in Selcon. Also have been able to get her to eat a homemade recipe of blended peas, carrots and spinich, mixed in a gel binder -- but that is a HUGE PITA to make.

I am still trying to get her to take nori or seaweed by mixing it in with her flake, but she avoids it.

Main thing is that I think we are out of the woods in the short-term. I'll keep putting in the leafy stuff (much to my plump Yellow Tang's delight) and maybe she'll take to it.

Thanks again for all the advice -- it really helped.

Harris611

[Wolverine]

Thanks for the update. We're glad to hear that all is going well (even if she won't eat nori yet).

Dave

[gljjr]

Harris,

I'm glad to hear that the Naso is doing well. One other thing you might try is to get some "Tang Heaven" macro Algae. If I put any of that in my tank it is gone in a matter of minutes. It is by far all of my tangs favorite food! If your LFS doesn't have it or won't get it you can go to http://www.ipsf.com/#anchor219582 and get it. I have never ordered from them but have heard good things about them.

[Agu]

Harris, glad to hear your tang is doing better :).

An idea that hasn't been mentioned. Rubberband the seaweed to a piece of live rock rubble and set it on the rockwork. Assume it'll get knocked over so don't set it above a coral. That's where a naso normally grazes, and it's how I got mine to eat nori. It looked at the seaweed clip like it was from outer space, but only took a few hours to determine seaweed on a rock was food.

Agu

[thebigblue]

agu

boy thats true about the clip...ive had a helluva time gettin mine to eat and hes finally figured out the clip has food on it...i put some green caulerpa on the clip in front of brown seaweed selects and he finally figured it out...

gljjr

thanks for the tang heaven link...i will have to check that out...im gonna setup a refugium soon...can you grow that stuff in there?...

[gljjr]

I'm growing some in my Sump but it is a slow grower so it doesn't do as well as the Caulerpa.

[RedFishBlueFish]

I second the rubberband to a rock trick. My tang refused to go near the clips. I started rubberbanding the nori to a rock, dropping it into a tank. Now the tang is all over it as soon as I introduce the Nori.

[harris611]

Thanks for the ongoing advice -- I'll keep trying!

I'll try and get a photo of the Naso up when I get my camera fixed.

Harris611

[quiteallright14]

I noticed that my clam had some "holes" in it the other day, IT was after I had just cleaned up and alot of sand was disturbed. I also changed the current flow--I thought that might have done it. but I was weary of my wrasse-I know it's time to get rid of him, another story--my girlfriend said she saw my tang mess with it. I just started to cut back on feeding to see if he will eat more algea. is he a threat?

[Wolverine]

How is the clams shell? I've seen tangs look like they're picking on the clam, but when you look closer, you see algaes growing around the edge of the tissues, and the tangs are actually going after that. But I have also seen tangs that are a little underfed munch on clam mantles, so, if anything, cutting back on feedings might increase the problem.

Dave

[quiteallright14]

yes there is algae on the shell, but the tear is "in" the clams meat, not the mantle. I was a little worried but I don't see any signs of it getting worse. I think i did it. It seems to be doing better. It surprises me that instead of closeing up it stays open and takes the b"eating".