Moorish Idol and others

[ClamLover]

Anyone ever successfully kept a pair of Moorish Idols in a with:
Tridacnea Crocea clam
Acropora Coral
Green Torch Coral
Organ Pipe
Sun Flower corlas (Tubstrea)

Without the Moorish Idols pinching away at the above ??

I've always wanted to keep Moorish Idols but was told.... NOT to... by my LFS.
Just wanted to do a survery...

[Aquaman]

I think a better question would be Has anyone ever successfully kept a pair of Moorish Idols. period!

I kept one for over 1 1/2 years in my reef tank, I never saw it once bother any of my acro's, frogspawn, hammer or clams. Didn't have any sun coral or pipe organs.

Mine ate mostly nori and Newlife spectrum pellet foods.

[Breef]

I have one Moorish Idol right now but the tank that he is in only has one type of coral at the time being,and that is colt coral. He never bothers them. He is eating silver sides,plancton,brine shrimp, a few flakes{not too crasy about them},krill,red worms,and just about everything that the other fish in the tank eat. I'm still thinking of getting at least one more to see if I can get a pair. They are very interesting fish.

[ClamLover]

Hi Aquaman,

May i know the type of clam that was in your tank during the time the Moorish idol was kept there ?

Derasa, Maxima, Crocea, ?

Thanks

[Aquaman]

Two large Derasa!

I have a friend that has a moorish right now, and has Derasa, Crocea and Maxima's. The Moorish has never bothered any of them.

[Breef]

I hope that I'm not getting too excited. I just love this fish,it is my favorite. I have had it for something like two months now and he is starting to eat right from my hand like all the others in the tank.If I could only get a mate for it I would be estatic! I mean a true mate.

[Marty M]

There is a good chance one will kill the other if they are kept in the same tank.

[Breef]

Is this thread closed? And I am just wondering why?

[Agu]

Doesn't appear closed to me ?

The track record for Moorish Idols is terrible at best, and by purchasing these animals we're encouraging the harvest of an animal that is doomed. With all the other choices available to us I can't understand why an informed aquarist would purchase a fish destined to die a premature death.

jmo,
Agu

[Frisco]

Well said Agu

[SPC]

Posted by Agu:
The track record for Moorish Idols is terrible at best, and by purchasing these animals we're encouraging the harvest of an animal that is doomed. With all the other choices available to us I can't understand why an informed aquarist would purchase a fish destined to die a premature death.

Couldn't think of a thing to add to this.
Steve

[hcs3]

agu,

:thumbsup:

[Breef]

It's not that that isn't a good reason,it's that it is a reason that is beat to death with nothing behind it. Am I wrong or was it just a few years ago when just about any fish out of the ocean was near to impossible to keep. I'm not asking for a flame here just a little more indepth reason on this certain fish. I already have one,it is the only one I have ever seen and it has been more easy than 50% of all the fish I've kept in about 25years of keeping. Just tell me something like I'm a grown 50yr old that I am and I will listen. In fact I am one of the most open minded people you will ever meet. I also see even the doctor level people telling about how nice and everything it is for some of the butterflys,the copperband for instince. Well I tried three and they are not easy. And I'm willing to bet that there are many lost to this same problem with very little arguement.The reason that I thought the thread was closed is the little sealed envelope at the front of the threads.

[hcs3]

hi breef

it is not that these fish don't do well once acclimated. generally, it is these fish do not acclimate. in most cases they refuse to feed.

seperately, even once they start to feed most will still starve from malnutrition. in the wild their natural diet is sponge so mysis, brine, clams, etc may have little to no nutritional value.

as per copperbands and dr ron. we have gone round and round over that. dr ron has had good experiences with the fish, although most fail. it is possible that dr ron is a bit more advanced hobbyist than most others attempting to care for it.

HTH

henry

[Breef]

Now that sounded a little more sensible and tack! And I appreciate that! When I appreciate something I usually have a little easier time letting it soak in home. Yea that sounds like exactly the same problem in getting the butterflys to respond. Although from what I have seen of them if there is enough live rock with the proper life on them it seems there would probably be less loss. They seem to feed similiar to the gobies like the manderins that need a large supply of pods to do well. And seeing as how this is an area where the Doc is the most expertese then I think this is pretty explainatory in itself. When it comes back to the Moorish Idols,I see it as everything else,the learning is the most important part. Also I think that fish are much like other animals in that they teach one another things to learn to survive. From what I have seen from my M.I. he has so far been one of the smartest fish that I have kept. And that goes from his reaction to all stimula. I can not see a smart fish as one to ignore.

[Breef]

I pose only one of several questions that I have concerning what you tell me of the Moorish Idol,does a fish that eats mostly sponge,go along the bottom shooting streams of water at the substrate to find something to eat? Seems like a strange way to find sponge? It brings to mind to me the cichlids of the great lakes of the rift valley, that eat the aufwaths or algae,they also consume a large amount of the crustations that live in it,and need them.

[Breef]

Isn't a fishes mouthand tooth structure one of the ways of determining what they eat. Has anyone done anykind of a study on these fish? It would tend to reason that this would be important.

[FMarini]

Breef:
the best way in determining natural foods is to check the stomach contents of a few wildcaught juvies and adult animals.
W/ that said often times mouth parts and tooth structure will give an indication of how and where the animal will feed. Not the actual foods. Unique feeding habits or specialized techniques will often give indication of what foods.
From what I have seen of moorish idols they have a pointed shaped mouth w/ comb tooth like plates. The pointed mouth parts suggests that this animal feeds in tight spaced area or areas where the body will be set back away from the food source (picture the pointed mouth of the orange spotted filefish). The comb toothed plates suggest that they are a feeder of something which has to be scraped off, picture the comb toothed tangs to see how this functions (i.e., kole or chevron tangs).

To me whats interesting is your observation of this fish blowing steams of water into the sandbed. I have observed this as well w/ some of my wrasses which are known sand fauna eaters, however i have never heard about this in any other moorish idols. I'm wondering if it your specific idol which has figured out that food is in the sandbed, or you happen to have one which also feeds on sand bed infauna. Or that idol feed on many things, one of which is sand bed infuana, in addition to veggies and sponges.
Very interesting
frank

[hcs3]

HTH (http://www.fishbase.org/TrophicEco/FoodItemsList.cfm?vstockcode=6259&genus=Zanclus&species=cornutus)

henry

[Breef]

Thank you for your observation on this,I think it is interesting also. Although I don't think he learned it from any of the other fish in the tank. He does it too well. He also does many other strange things. One he does is to try to help the large pink cucumber through the razorcaularpa strands that he gets tangled in. He is always following him around and doing this? Curious behavior huh? On that sandbed bit,I have tons of spegette worms,and others worms and such. Their like hordes in this tank. Anyway I'll think about it and mention if there is any other behavior that is interesting. Thanks Henry,any bits of information like this is deeply appreciated. It doesn't always seem like much,but it can add up.

[gfish]

.

[Breef]

My Idol,last night was feeding along with the rest of the group,and he got a large mouth full of brineshrimp and went to center of the group and spit them out,as if to share his booty with the gang. I have a 2 and half inch purple tang in the tank too and he must be the only other one in there that that stays very close except for the blue angel. The Idol has made some very ,very fast spurts of speed to show he is the one that counts.

[jimmyj7090]

this is the most civilized discussion i've seen in a while!!!

how long have you guys had the MIs for?

(i promise not to start the negative comments);)

[Breef]

I never keep real records or anything similiar,so I will just say for a short time,less than a year.

[naesco]

Clamlover everyone loves Moorish Idol but unfortunately they do not survive in our tanks. This fish should not be imported.
One of these days research into this fishes requirements may pay dividends and we all will be able to keep them.
The discussion you read here is between two or three reefers who feel that they have the right to experiment with keeping them.
99% die even in the care of experts.
I do not think that Breef or anyone is suggesting that you go ahead and buy one.

Breef
Look at the posts of Clamlover. You have been on the board awhile. I was wondering if you feel as though you have a responsibility to let Clamlover know your chances of keeping this fish alive for any length of time?
It is just my opinion, and not a flame but I think when there are discussions on these almost impossible to keep fish, that comments by reefers like yourself should be prefaced by the statement that these are indeed almost impossible to keep.
To do otherwise is to leave the impression that they can be kept.

[Breef]

It has been a while since I added to this thread and I thought that I would tell of a couple of observances of my on my M.I.,Sam. I cut down greatly on the amount of food that I am feeding all of my tanks. In this time since I started this,there has been a depression in the sandbed all along the side of the tank where Sam spends most of his time when the lights are off. I believe he has been supplimenting his diet with some of the great numbers of worms in my sandbed! I feed him a lot of the sponge formula for angel fish. It is his main diet! Especially since there is very little of this type of invirtebre growing in my tanks in the volume to feed this size of a fish. I have been pondering on the possibility of parisites of the internal type being a possible problem with these fish. Seeing as how worms carry a large variety of them. I hope that I am able to buy a fair quality microscope before the possibility of losing this fish,although I hope this doesn't happen for a long time yet. I know that I have had him for at least 8 months now and he is only larger and more happy than when I first got him. If I ever lose him I will dissect him to a great extent to see if I can tell what he died from.