Hello, I would like to introduce myself & ask some questions!

[OscarBeast]

Hello, fellow Okies!

My name is Brandon. I am originally from Miami, OK and I am currently attending OSU Stillwater for my BFA in Graphic Design. I work here at OSU’s College of Arts & Sciences Technical Support services as a Computer Support Specialist. I specialize in the Macintosh support side. :P

My first love is and always be Oscars! I just can’t get enough of these lovable cichlids. I have just started over in my 75-gallon tank with some young Oscars and I have been trying to get a breeding pair. Out of 8 I am down to 3, and one of them is being pushed out of the group. :P

My wife has a 55-gallon that used to be a goldfish tank, but they have since passed away and the tank has been taken over by one of my baby Oscars that has not grown properly. I suspect that he was out competed by the others and has never recovered, however he is just as healthy as he can be but has never really grown. He is only around an inch and a half and has the whole 55 to himself.

Now the reason I have been hanging around here is because I have just started my first saltwater tank. It is only a little 10-gallon, but is starting to rival my 55-gallon in cost. :P Right now it consists of a crushed coral substrate and 17 Lbs of live rock that is still curing a bit. I am not sure what kind of live rock it was, but it was very pretty and encrusted with purple coralline algae. Right now it is sitting on a rot iron stand with a standard 10-gallon fluorescent hood and a Penguin Bio-Wheel Mini. Originally I was only going to do a fish only with live rock setup, but the more and more I look at nano-reefs the more stuff I want. So right now I am working on a DIY hood consisting of two double bulb under cabinet fixtures. This should give me enough light to do more “reefy� stuff a little down the road. A little down the road I will be adding a prism skimmer just so I feel a little more comfortable with the setup, even if it provides no big benefit.

So, I have a couple of questions for you guys. Since I will need four 15 watt 18� fluorescent (NO I think) bulbs; which color combinations of bulbs would you guys recommend that will give me a really “sweet� colored tank. I really want my fish to glow.

Also I need to know what to stock my tank with. I want a little firefish goby for sure. I will probably be adding him tomorrow if my nitrites are low enough. Currently my Ammonia is down to 0 and my Nitrites are down to at least .3. Other fish that I would “like� to put in the tank are; a false percula, a green chromis, royal gramma, some type of little shrimp, pigmy angels, some little crabs, and maybe a turbo snail or two.

Of course I know I can’t keep them all, but I would love help narrowing down the selection and for anyone out there to make some more suggestions of course. Does anyone have a suggested combination? I would like to add my firefish and a cleaning crew ASAP! :P What should I add next? :P

Thanks for any information you can give me. I am a saltwater virgin and hungry for information. :P BTW..I tried to check our you guy’s website and it seems to be down. :(

And Here are some picts of my tank when I just added the live rock. The water is still a little cloudy in these pics.


http://www.aquariumhelp.net/images/10gsw1.jpg


http://www.aquariumhelp.net/images/10gsw2.jpg


http://www.aquariumhelp.net/images/10gsw3.jpg


http://www.aquariumhelp.net/images/10gsw4.jpg

[Don Davis]

Hello Brandon, and Welcome to our forum. Oscars are my favorite fish also. When I was in high school I had 13 tanks ranging in size from 20 to 55 gallons. I bred oscars, jack dempseys, blue acaras, and severums. I also bred lots of guppies to feed them all.:D But after I setup my first reeftank, the freshwater stuff was quickly forgotten and given away.

The website is up, but the link in our forum header is wrong. I need to contact John about that. The correct address is http://comasonline.org:8080.

For NO flourescent bulbs I would recommend the Coralife Actinic 03, and the Coralife 10,000K daylights. I have been running 2 of each over a 55 gallon for a year and a half with nice color, and good results with mushrooms and leathers. I tried running 2x Actinic 03, and 2x 50/50, but it was too blue for me, but the fish would definitely glow with that combination. :D I think you would like the color of the 10k and actinic better.

I wouldn't put any pigmy angels or clowns in a 10 gallon unless it's temporary and you plan to upgrade to a larger tank soon. You should be ok with a firefish and a green chromis, a shrimp of some kind and a few snails and hermits. I'd stay away from any other kind of crabs. That's just my opinion though, others will recommend different stocking levels. I have a 125 gallon with a 6-line wrasse, 1 green chromis, 1 maroon clown, and a medium purple tang and I think it's too crowded. You might also look into a citron goby or a yellow watchman goby, they are both small reef-safe fish with good personalities.

I would add the skimmer and cleaning crew before adding any fish. 10 gallons isn't a lot of water and saltwater fish put out a lot more waste then freshwater fish. You may have made a typo, but you need to watch nitrates more then nitrites. I'm sure you know that from your freshwater experience.;)

Good luck and feel free to ask any other questions.

Don

Pics of my 125 gallon reef. (http://comasonline.org:8080/reefpics/donny/more%20pics/)

[Kyle McClain]

I second Dons advice, and would encourage you to consider moving your Oscar into the 10 gallon and setting up the 55 as a reef. Saltwater is a lot more difficult to control in such small quantity's. However many people keep successfull nano tanks. going slow and being well informed is your best bet for success. Also if you are using declorinated tap water for your saltwater you will need to switch to some kind of purified water I have a good friend in Stillwater who uses the big ozarka drinking water jugs. Most municipal water system have way to many silicates and chemicals that cause big problems in reef tanks. Some fish stores sell RO/DI (reverse osmosis/ deionized) water which is best. Keep asking questions we will do are best to answer them.

Kyle

[OscarBeast]

Don Davis,
I just have heard so many mixed opinions about using a skimmer it isn't even funny. I probably won't be doing a whole lot of reef stuff though. Maybe a mushroom anemone because they are just so hard to kill, and maybe some polyps. Who knows what else? :P I am getting a skimmer though. :P

I have been looking at these nanos that people keep and so many of them have perculas or false perculas. Maybe I am getting the wrong impression by people that are trying to cram too much stuff in a tank. I really love these little guys. If it did become a problem, I have a LFS down the road that is great about buying stuff. They have been really nice about buying back my Oscars that I am pairing off. They don't have any problems getting rid of saltwater fish, so I am sure they would take one if needed.

I didn't typo on Nitrites. :P I always monitor the Nitrites during a cycle. Nitrites are substantially more toxic that Nitrates and should be the last thing you get a reading on before your tank cycles. Nitrites are converted to less toxic Nitrates by the nitrifying bacteria. In a freshwater setup the Nitrites should always be 0 in a cycled tank, but you should at least always get a reading on Nitrates (but not too high). That is what I learned in my freshwater experience. :P I assumed that the cycle works the same way in a saltwater setup.

In a freshwater setup, the Nitrates are controlled by doing water changes and the use of plants in many tanks. I had intended on controlling Nitrates on my 10-gallon with water changes for the moment.

You are correct in the fact that keeping an eye on nitrates is more important, because in a properly cycled tank nitrites should be 0 and remain that way. That is unless the cycle is disturbed by antibiotics or too heavy of a bio-load, etc.

Thanks for the advice on the bulbs. I tried a coralife 50/50 bulb the other day and it fried on me in 2 days. I wasn't too impressed with the brand, especially for the $20 I paid for the stupid thing. I may have just got a bad bulb though. They tend to get beatup a little at Petsmart. I don't usually go there, but I was looking for a skimmer.


ostatesman,
Doing the 55-gallon as a reef is just not an option at the moment. I am still in the university apartments and will be moving within a year. I will be able to break down the 10-gallon a whole lot easier than the 55, not to mention the 55 is my wife's and she is wanting to get rid of it because of the space it takes up in the bedroom. Using "her" tank and keeping it in the apartment wouldn't go over. :P

I figured if I could manage keeping a 10-gallon then I could justify doing a larger setup later on. :P

I have heard of people using distilled water, and adding Kent RO right. I may do this, or invest in a small RO unit. I believe I have seen 22 GPD models for around $105.


Here is another guy's 10-gallon: http://members.tripod.com/~rbrducky/10.html

I was fairly impressed with his setup. He kept a little false percula, but that doesn't mean it is right. :P I just thought his tank was beautiful though.

[Kyle McClain]

I wouldn't worry about adding the RO right. Anything the water needs is in the salt mix. Skimmers always seem to be a highly debated item. Partly because some people take it to the extreme and over skim stripping their systems of nutrients. A note on your DIY hood leave a notch at the back for the skimmer. Don might be able to show you a pic of a hood he made with a notch for a skimmer. You can keep a perc in a 10 no problem, they stay small and have a great personality. If you want to look at alternitave lighting systems/ bulbs here are a few links.

Champion lighting supply- http://www.championlighting.com/

Hellolights- http://www.lampsnow.com/

The 13W PC kits at Hellolights might be of interest to you.

Kyle

[Don Davis]

Nitrates are a little more important in saltwater then they are in freshwater. Most invertibrates (snails, shrimps, crabs, corals) don't tolerate nitrates very well. Saltwater fish can tolerate a little higher nitrates then invertibrates, but not too much higher. I figured you knew nitrites were usually undecteble after the cycle so I mentioned nitrates. Your nitrates will bounce all over the place in saltwater from time to time, but the ammonia and nitrites will pretty much remain harmless after the cycle. Unless you disturb the bacteria colonies like you said.

The skimmer is like insurance, they usually don't do a whole lot, but when you need it, you'll be glad you have it. Mine rarely needs to be emptied anymore, but once in a while something funky happens, like snails spawning, etc... and the skimmer goes nuts. In a 10 gallon with invertibrates you can really get into trouble fast even doing regular water changes. If you have a snail or shrimp die, your nitrates will rise a little, possibly killing more inverts, raising nitrates even more, and eventually effecting your fish. All the while, ammonia and nitrites never really rose because they were consumed by bacteria as soon as they were made available. It's not unheard of to crash a small tank quickly from a chain reaction that starts with a hermit crab killing a snail just to see if his shell fits.:eek: With larger tanks, you have more of a bumper because of dilution due to more volume. A skimmer will be a nominal cost when compared to the cost of your livestock. I personally wouldn't run a small tank without some sort of skimmer.

I haven't had any luck with bulbs from PetSmart either. We had 2 dead out of the box, the other 2 died within a few days. I have never had a problem with bulbs bought from local fish stores though.

If you ever get to OKC I will give you some mushrooms and polyps to try out. I need to thin mine out again.

One last note, you probably don't want to hear this but...
you might consider removing the crushed coral and replacing it with a finer grade of sand. Some people claim that cc is a nitrate factory. I have ran tanks both ways without a problem so it's a crap shoot.

Later,

Don

[OscarBeast]

Don,
I have heard it both ways on the CC as well. Since that is already in the tank, I believe I am going to take a gamble and leave it for now. If nitrates become a problem in the future, I know the first thing that I will look at though. Hopefully this won't disturb the cycle too much if I have to remove it in the future.

I was told that the filter pad would be a nitrite factory as well in my Penguin Mini. I talked to Dr. Ron about the issue and he believes that I should continue using it as a filter. I had intended to leave out the filter cartridge and only use it for circulation.

As soon as I create the hood and my tank reaches an acceptable level of stability, I might just take you up on your offer with the mushrooms and polyps. Thanks :P

ostatesman,
Thanks for the links but I have already purchased the fixtures for my hood.
I intend on using plexy glass to make the hood for my tank. I should be able to carve out any shape in the back of it I like. :P I want to make it real tight around all of my stuff on the back. I hear firefish like to jump out of the tank.

My LFS has two flame gobies in as well. They are so pretty. I wonder if I could keep a flame and a firefish in the same tank. They are so similar to each other that I am afraid that they would fight. Has anyone had any experience with both?

Thanks for all of your help guys!

[Kyle McClain]

Not sure what a flame goby is did they know what the scientific name was ?

[OscarBeast]

My LFS doesn't even label them, they are also called purple firefish. My LFS doesn’t carry a whole lot of fish at one time. They usually just order in what people request.

The one I have is a Nemateleotris magnifica. This one I have seen called a fire goby or more commonly a firefish.

The other one is a Nemateleotris decora. I have seen this one called a flame goby, firefish, or more commonly a purple firefish.

Common names suck.

I do have a confession though. I went ahead an bought a little firefish today (Nemateleotris magnifica). The little guy has already claimed a hole in the live rock and is pecking away at everything that floats into his little cave. :P I intend to have him help finish cycling the tank for me.

This probably wasn't the best thing to do, but I couldn't wait to get the little guy. The fever got the best of me. I knew he was a tough little bugger because he was out of the LFS display tank. I had checked him out many times and he is in great shape. He seems to really love flakes.

[Little Reefer Boy]

Hey Brandon,

Welcome to the boards! Is the LFS in Stillwater any good? I assume there's only one? Hehe. I ask since I will be in going to Stillwater the first weekend in March.

Grant

[OscarBeast]

Yes, Aqua Mart is pretty good.

All of the people that work there are hobbyists and usually can tell you what something requires and how big they get. It is a small little family type business. It is rare to find a diseased or dead fish. They keep a pretty good stock of freshwater fish, but not a whole lot of saltwater fish. The tanks are always clean, though some of them have a hair algae problem. They were mistaken when they said their live rock was pretty much cured when it wasn't.

They don't get a whole lot of saltwater stuff in because they really don't have a lot of room. They can get whatever you want though. All you have to do is ask them for something by Sat. and they will have it in on Tues. The livestock they get in is always in great shape and beautiful.

They also carry other exotic pets like ferrets, scorpions, ball pythons, hedgehogs, etc. They also carry several birds. They are actually a "hobby center" so they carry other things to build model airplanes, cars, and also coins. :P

They do a good job of taking animals off of people's hands if they can't keep them anymore. Even if they don't have enough room, they will try to sell your pets for you and give you a call when they have a buyer.

If you are only coming down for a visit, it probably isn't worth your time. Like I said before they don't keep a whole lot of stock on hand. If you come in on a Tuesday, you can at least see all of the fish that people have ordered. :P

The only negative things about the place are their prices on things other than livestock. For example they charge $120 for an Emperor 400, which can be purchased online for around $40. :P
Also, place does smell bad and I have never quite placed the smell. It kind of smells like a combination of birds and chlorine in there. This smell lingers on your clothes and anything you take out of the store with you. LOL

If you need hardware or anything special, it is best to venture the 45-60 minutes over to Edmond/OKC.

[Little Reefer Boy]

Thanks for the tip. I'm in Norman, so I shop the OKC metro area all the time. I like the Edmond store too. She's real nice.

I do like to hear about other cities' LFS though. :)

Ready for the Bedlam battle tonight? ;)

[OscarBeast]

Oh no, I forgot about the bedlam match.

I don't watch any of the sports, but when there is a game it means I can't get out of the university when my lab closes at night.

Ahhhh!

[Colin]

Hey Brandon,

Here's my old 10G nano reef. http://home.mmcable.com/csmith

The tank is no longer up (got upgraded) but it ran very well when I had it.

--Colin

[OscarBeast]

That was a very nice tank. Thanks for sharing the link. I always enjoy seeing how other people go about doing their tanks.

Originally I was wanting to get a LTA and a tomato, but I was told that they would outgrow my tank too fast.

That was a neat anemone you had though.

I need to get to work on my lighting. I am making a new hood with plexy glass and 2 double bulb under cabinet fixtures. :P