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Christine
11/23/1999, 01:24 PM
When I bought my Bangaii cardinals (last Thursday) I chose two that had paired off pretty well in the dealer tank. They stayed off to one side, and I thought that maybe they were a male/female pair. Today, one keeps chasing the other. Are they fighting or are they doing some kind of mating ritual?

Reef Junkie
11/23/1999, 04:46 PM
Christine,
Sounds like someone might be becoming a mommy! If you can locate HCS"Henry" he has quite a bit of info. I had a pair mate last spring. I have two babies left over from that spawning. They are very big now. The pair died after the first spwaning, though. The male killed the female and then he disappeared. It was strange and I don't know why it happend? I'm glad I still have the pair of babies. They're living out a calm life in my 40 gal Refugium. They're about an inch and a half now.
Later,
Bill
PS I'll try and locate Henry for you.

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Reef Junkie
11/23/1999, 04:57 PM
Chris,
Here is the info...
E-mail for Henry...schultz3@msn.com
His website... http://www.homestead.com/wetdreams/index.html
Good luck and let everyone know what happens.
Later,
Bill

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http://www.homestead.com/reefjunkie/highenergy.html

ATLANTIS
11/23/1999, 08:43 PM
here are some Banggai Sites....

www.geocities.com/Heartland/Garden/5533/bcphotos.html (http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Garden/5533/bcphotos.html)
www.reefs.org/library/talklog/k_clarkee_102499.html (http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/k_clarkee_102499.html)
www.eparc.com/banggai/ryoung/banggai_ryoung.htm (http://www.eparc.com/banggai/ryoung/banggai_ryoung.htm)
home.att.net/~cong13/banggai.html (http://home.att.net/~cong13/banggai.html)
www.animalnetwork.com/fish/aqfm/1999/july/eq/default.asp (http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish/aqfm/1999/july/eq/default.asp)
www.eparc.com/banggai/fmarini/marsh_banggai.htm (http://www.eparc.com/banggai/fmarini/marsh_banggai.htm)




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brian

atlantisaquatic.com (http://atlantisaquatic.com)

Christine
11/23/1999, 09:11 PM
Thanks for your replies. I'm going to those links shortly, but first I'd like to add an update on the behavior. They're no longer chasing each other, and now the chaser is on the far left of the tank, and the chasee is on the far right sitting just above the sand. I'll keep my fingers crossed that they're breeding. The owner of the Richmond LFS told me that he had a customer scoop up the fry and put them in his overflow, and they've all been living there for quite a while. He has two "batches" in there right now, and the first is almost adult size.

FOX
11/24/1999, 07:27 AM
Christine,

Actually, I think you misunderstood Joe, or he didn't explain it well. Vince(the guy with the babies) came home one day and his wife had noticed the babies in the overflow, so Vince set up a quick 20 gallon tank and scooped them out of the overflow. I saw them when they were a few weeks old. It's really amazing. Vince is the kind of guy who has more money than he knows what to do with and pays Joe to take care of his tanks. In less than 2 years in the hobby, he's gone from a 90 & 75 to a 180 & 220 and now he wants to take the 180 down and build a 500. His tanks are way overloaded with fish and somehow he manages to get raise Bangaii babies.

FOX

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members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm (http://members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm)

ATLANTIS
11/24/1999, 09:53 AM
Christine,
You will know they have mated if one of them starts to refuse food. That would be the male and he is carrying eggs in his mouth.

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brian

atlantisaquatic.com (http://atlantisaquatic.com)

Christine
11/24/1999, 10:39 AM
Fox - He definitely said that they're still in there. He was an older gentleman (of course I'm 19 so everyone's an older gentleman) and he said that it was really easy, he just scooped them up and put them in there. Maybe that's someone else. He said that he has two "batches" in there. I'm not going to do that though. I'm still deciding whether to go with a breeder net or a separate tank altogether. The breeder net has the advantage of being part of the same system as the main tank, so it will have more stability, but it's also very unnattractive.

FOX
11/24/1999, 10:47 AM
Hmmm, might have been a different guy then. You would know if it was Vince. He's always in the store and he's Asian. Chinese I think, but not sure.

FOX

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members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm (http://members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm)

hcs3
11/24/1999, 11:51 PM
hey there

christine, i'd suspect your fish are fighting. a lot of times fish become stressed out in dealer tanks and therefore are less active, les defensive. or, maybe the fish on the other side had a dominate male and these 2 were doing their best to stay away from harms way. either way, my bet is you have 2 males and the new home envoked a fight for territory to establish the dominate male. they won't always chase each other, but a dominate one will certainly be established. the other will remain hiding most of the day. worst case scenerio, one male will kill the other male. if fighting continues, you'd be best to remove one male unless the system is large and contains lot's of LR. if it is a female, it will be right at the side of the male.

unless one is carrying eggs, IMO it is impossible to tell the differences in sexes. also, a male with repeated hatches tends to keep it's swelled jaws between breeding attempts. there are some articles out there that claim of ways to tell the differences of sex, but after using them i was left even more confused. quite simply, i don't think there is an easier of sexing your fish other than a pregnancy or autopsy.

chasing is something left up to fish that are defending their territories. a male banggai will not defend it's territory against females - only other males. that being said, the mating ritual that takes place has one banggai dancing infront of the other. from left to right, the male vibrates - think of a pager going off on vibration mode - intensely, spending no more than 5 seconds on one side before moving to the other. the eggs are dropped on the substrate, the male fertilizes them, and then
promptly scoops them up.

i think it would be in your best interest, if you plan to raise baby banggai, to remove them from the main system. feeding baby banggais can be difficult, and having them as part of a larger system makes it tougher. i've had good success removing them and placing them into a 5g tank with LR and LS. since doing this, i've had a higher success rate of raising them. i don't know if it's from natural food, or natural protection, but i've definately had better success with the LS and LS vs a glass bottom. also, i've had better success at getting the fry when i caught the male with the brood still in his mouth. it was very difficult to catch the fry in the system without the other fish and coral getting a couple. also, waiting all night long sucked as well. instead, i catch the male once i see the fry peeking out of his mouth. i know they are ready, so i net the male. once net, the male promptly spits out all of the fry. he makes it really easy for you. of course, you've got systems already started for both the fry and the male to recooperate seperately.

lastly, i'm not calling anybody a liar, but i certainly would have to see the gentleman raising fry in his overflow before i'd believe it. IMO and IME, there is no way that is possible. again, JMO.

HTH

henry

Bass Cadet
11/27/1999, 02:39 PM
I agree with Henry. I think you have two males or females and they are fighting. I originally bought three. The largest Banggai kept attacking the smallest. I finally caught the smallest and returned it. It turns out that the larger Banggai is the female.

Regarding the mating, I think the female is the one that does the shimmying. At least mine does. She also loses color in her face. Then she semi-chases the male. He'll approach her from behind when he's ready to carry the eggs.

I raise my fry in 5 and 10 gallon tanks with live rock, crushed coral substrate, and an air stone. I might switch to a sand substrate some day. They do not like strong current.

greg

Rays
11/27/1999, 04:44 PM
Ditto Henry and cadet

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What! I need this too?

hcs3
11/29/1999, 11:16 AM
hi greg

you are correct - it is the female that does the dance. i went off of some old records where i misidentified the female/male shimmying. but, last night i watched the mating ritual. it is indeed the female that shimmies.

also, as to the high current. that is why i don't believe that they are being raised in his overflow. any type of current at all and these little guys are getting blown all over the place.

henry

Christine
11/29/1999, 01:56 PM
I guess they were two of the same sex. I haven't seen one of them since my last post. That's strange though, because I definitely saw the one that's still here "shimmy." I can only hope. . .