waterpumps for dummies

[Aescleah]

ok i am trying to set up a 120 gal tank. i need to get a water pump for it. it has a hole in the trickle filter for a water pump what would you recommend for it. i have a excaliber skimmer with a 1700 rio driving the skimmer. what not only do i need to know a good pump .but i guess i need to know how to pick one out (correct water flow and stuff)and for future refence so anything you can think of so i can become more edgmicated

thanks
Ashley

[Biosystems]

Ashley:
I am assuming by hole in the wet-dry that you are talking about a bulkhead fitting. As far as external water pumps go, the iwasaki is a great pump, I use a quarium series little giant on my 120-b/c at the time I bought it (8 years ago) they were cheap and provided the flow with backpressure ratings that I wanted/needed. The size and type pump that you are looking for greatly depends on how you plan on plumbing it from the sump. If it is going to be used to deliver water at a significant head pressure (due to height and/or backpressure) you will need to get a pressure rated pump. If it is delivering directly to the tank via over the back returns then a non-pressure rated pump will suffice (and will also give you a greater flow rate). Maybe with a little information and turnover rate you are looking for provided we can give you some more advice on particular pumps.
One bit of advice on returns from a flooded house expert ;) (I figure if you flood your house more than three times in one month then you must be an expert at it)-when you design your returns be sure to provide a siphon break and/or unidirectional flow valve to prevent the tank from siphoning out all over the floor. 120 gallons is alot of water when it gets on the floor :).

Tim

[Aescleah]

hi
ok this is what i have so far. 1 120 gal all glass tank with 2 overflows. holes are drilled at the bottem of the tank. i plan to use a trickle filter with a skimmer in the sump area .is this what you were asking for i feel sorta dumb when it comes to this stuff
but if i dont ask i will never learn.
well even though you cant make quite the mess with a 55 as you can with a 120 my past lessons i suppose makes me a expert as well (hoping to find another area to become a expert in another part in this hobby ; ) glad to know i am not alone on this subject

[FishWish]

Hi , If you'll go to my site HTTP://www.fishwish.com and click on the head calculation button you can readily figure out what pump you'll need given the differant variables.HTH..David

[hcs3]

hi ashley

yes, be sure to ask ALL the questions you can. chances are, one of us ha run into it at some point or another.

i second the vote on iwasaki.

is this gonna be a reef or a FO? personally i don't like trickle filters for a reef. it may be in your best interest not to use one if your going reef - or even FO with LR.

a very general rule of thumb is the 10x's turnover per hour. for a 120g, this can become a fair amount of water. i'm assuming your gonna go with one pump. therefore, you'll need to calculate head pressure taking into account the 90's your gonna have. recently, i set up a 180g with 2 returns on 1 pump. it workeed out to be 4' of hieght from the floor, with 1 'T' connector and 2 90's. i'm betting yours will be the same. each 90 counts as 2' of head pressure, and the 'T' can count as another 90. so, the pump we were looking for delivered 1800gph at a head pressure of 10'. don't be fooled, this is a serious pump. but the owner of the tank couldn't be happier with his choice.

i hope this answers a question or 2. be sure to ask more if your still in doubt.

henry

[JohnL]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>i second the vote on iwasaki<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you guys talking about Iwaki or does Iwasaki make pumps also?

[Aescleah]

hi
this is a fish only tank housing agressive messy fish like triggers and puffers
Ashley

[This message has been edited by Aescleah (edited 10-28-1999).]

[hcs3]

whoops :)

i forgot how to spell it, and was too lazy to look it up. it is iwaki. gee, tim, thanks for making me look stupid :)

ashley

good choice with the trickle filter. that do a great job with FO tanks that have messy eaters.

henry

[Biosystems]

Henry: I looked just as stupid ;) I just heard today that Diet Coke ruins your short term memory so I'll blame it on the couple of twelve packs I have finished off in the past few hours :). Thanks for calling me out though since JohnL had only mentioned your quote in particular! Maybe it is good I delayed writing that phosphate information.

Fishwish: Very nice calculator. Do you have a variable for depth under water/water pressure?

Ashley: The holes drilled in the bottom of the tank part-is that where you plan on returning the water through? If so what is the depth as depending on where you choose to return the water, it makes a very big difference on head pressure. I have the same set up with hole drilled through bottom center (done a long time ago)- unfortunately I wish I chose to drill from the back as it creates an incredible amount of back pressure delivering water through PVC plumbed through these holes , although it is completely hidden as I had originally intended. If this is not the case and I misinterpretted the post-how are you planning on plumbing the tank for water return?

I won't be in for a couple of days, but I am sure with the additional info others will be able to answer. If not-I'll check back in on Sunday.

Tim

[Aescleah]

thanks alot for your help tim i hope you have a good weekend yes the intake and the output will be thru the bottom of the tank on both sides

Ashley

[hcs3]

tim

boy how i wish i could blame my loss of short term memory on diet coke! there must be something else causing it, but i just can't remeber what! ;)


henry

[Biosystems]

Henry: ROTFLMAO----I know the feeling.

Ashley: I am glad you finally said that you were plumbing it from the bottom b/c that is where I have had much experience (with disaster ;) ). The pressure of 120g of water on those pipes is pretty darn high and unfortunately back flow/check valves can often fail and cause the aquarium to empty through your sump/wet/dry if the power fails. You will need to buy a couple of back flow prevention devices to put on the line after your pump. DO NOT buy the ones from home centers that are spring based as saltwater+metal=DISASTER and waste of money. The flapper type work well, but will eventually fail (mine took four years but did eventually do so). Pet Warehouse sells them for about $10.00 each. There is a more expensive type that you can buy that is supposedly better (see FAMA) but I have heard these require frequent cleanings not to fail. An example of the check valve I am talking about is here and I would install a connector b/w it and the plumbing (true union on both sides) in order to be able to remove it for testing and replacement: http://www.petwhse.com/webstore/webstore.nsf/fbd771ea8d7ff4fa852567da006d3cd2/c5045b16a55c0008872567210070b48d?OpenDocument
That would also require you to include a ball valve above it to shut off flow from the tank so that you can remove it.
You will also need to purchase a pressure rated pump. Be careful to provide a way to prevent things from going into the pump intake b/c a small nick in the propeller (from gravel or sand) will drastically reduce water flow from the pump under these pressure conditions (mine has done this twice-each time reducing flow by &gt;80%) and the replacement impellars are around $20 each MO. A 120g tank to get 10 water volumes would require 1200g/h at the head pressure you are considering. I have calculated my overflow (by bucket fill method) from my tank with a similarly installed bottom plumbed return using a Little Giant 4MDQ-SC at approx. 1000 gallons/hr when it was new. That included a 2.5' pipe height head, two 90 degree turns and about 5' total pipe length through 3/4inch returns and of course the weight of the water at about 20".

So my advice-Purchase a pressure rated pump with a good rated flow rate (you will find that the price of pumps differs only slightly b/w the different flow rates so spend the extra couple of dollars on the larger pump). Try and get between 6 and 10 times turnover (in your case that would be 720-1200 gph at the given head pressure (Use Fishwish's calculator for everything you decide in plumbing and then add on alot more for the water pressure).

HTH,
Tim

[Aescleah]

thanks alot wow maybe this will not be so bad we i go thru this i am not sure i get it but there is alot in this hobby i kind of learn as i go along

: )
Ashley