What's the real story on Anemones?

[Larry M]

Not that I'm planning to buy one. I had a condy early in my experience, and it never adapted to my tank. It kept moving around, shrinking then opening up, etc. and finally died. Obviously I wasn't giving it what it wanted, but at the time I was too ignorant to know better. Shortly afterward I found the internet, read all the warnings, and forgot about ever getting another one. But, there are some people who claim to keep them successfully, for fairly long periods of time. I'd like to hear once again just what it takes, and what specimens usually have the best chance for success.

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Larry M

Visit Reef Central's Home Site at:
www.reefcentral.com (http://www.reefcentral.com)

[FOX]

Larry,

Here's a link that Rob Toonen provided me:http://www.actwin.com/fish/species/anemone.html

HTH,
FOX

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members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm (http://members.xoom.com/KoryFox/index.htm)

[ignatz]

Larry,

This may be the same thing that Fox pointed you to, but this one is by Rob Toonen.
http://www.reefs.org/library/article/r_toonen8.html

-ignatz

[Larry M]

Aw, come on you guys. I wanted to hear your own opinions. http://216.79.36.30/ubb/wink.gif


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Larry M

Visit Reef Central's Home Site at:
www.reefcentral.com (http://www.reefcentral.com)

[FOX]

My own opinion is that there are a few people, like Rob Toonen, Ron Shimek, etc. that I feel know how to experiment with these animals and will eventually find out what we're missing that they need. I have yet to hear of someone keeping any kind of anemone for more than 5 years. I don't consider 2-3 years success with anemones since they are capable of living well over 100 years in the wild. The other problem is most species are easily capable of outgrowing all but the biggest home aquariums. So what do you if you succeed for 15 or 20 years? The anemone will get huge. I think the average hobbiest should not buy them until we find out more about their needs. Now having said that, I do have a rose anemone(E. Quadricolor) in my 180. I did not go out and purchase this anemone, nor would I. It was in the tank when I bought it.(I bought the tank used). This anemone has surprised me so far. It's been in the tank for close to 2 years. About 1 1/2 in my care. At first it grew for the first several months. Then it moved towards the back of the tank after staying put for at least the first 4-5 months. A couple weeks later, I noticed that it looked quite a bit smaller, but I couldn't see it very well. I figured, well this is the beginning of the end. About a month ago, I decided I didn't like my rock structure and decided to rearrange the whole thing.(Looks much different now than what's on my site) I quickly found out that the anemone had split. I now have two rose anemones. The two are continuing to grow and look healthy, but I won't claim success until they have continued to do this for at least 5 years. Probably more like 10. Rob Tooned warned me that the split can be due to stress rather than me providing good conditions for it. I guess only time will tell.

FOX

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[ignatz]

Like most others, the relationship between clowns and the host anemones was one of the reasons I got into this hobby. I have this bad habbit of reading a topic to death before doing anything. Articles like these have convinced me not to try an anemone. I don't take loses well (I don't think anyone should.) and would hate to lose an anemone. I am not saying it can't be done, just that I don't think I have the skills. http://216.79.36.30/ubb/smile.gif

I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has kept an anemone alive for more than 3 years. I would also like to hear about anyone who is successfully keeping gonipora.

JOMO
-ignatz

[badgers]

fox if I waited ten years for an anemone I might be passing it out in my will.
These creatures seem to live in the wild longer that a human does. If we find out what it takes to keep them, the IRS will need to make a policy on these things!(I dont like the IRS http://216.79.36.30/ubb/frown.gif but don't tell)

[Aquaman]

My father inlaw gave me a carpet anemone back in June, He had it in his tank for about a year. His tank is a 125 but only using 3 NO lights, the anemone shrunk some during it's stay in his tank. Since it's been in my tank it has grown about 2 or so inches in diameter, It found a spot in the middle of my tank and has stayed put! It also seems to have a good appetite. I feed it several times a week, besides the T percula clown and Sail fin tang http://216.79.36.30/ubb/frown.gif that it captured.

My tank is only a 55gal to small I know!!, as well as being a hazard to the fish in the tank. I'm purchasing a 125 gal this month and I'm kicking the idea around of moving the reef to the 125 and leaving the anemone by itself in the 55, Or I could move the anemone to the 125 and make it a "FOWA" "Fish Only With Anemone" http://216.79.36.30/ubb/wink.gif hehe

I really hate having to move it anywhere because it seems to be doing well BUT If I continue to feed it at my current pace it should grow several more inches before next year!

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Teach what you have known for years as if you learned it yesterday,
Teach what you learned yesterday as if you have known it all you life.
www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html (http://www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html)

[Kirbster]

In view of the facts that anemones have centuries-long lifespans in the wild and very poor survivability in captivity, I don’t support the import and sale of them en masse as now exists. However, you can call me hypocritical, but I do not see a problem with certain people attempting to keep them. I don’t believe Rob Toonen, Ron Shimek, and their peers should be the only ones on the list. I think a lot of us here are capable of making innovations in captive reef husbandry. We understand that anemones are difficult, and we understand the impact anemone harvest has on the wild ecosystem. We also are the type of people that read everything there is to read about a subject, then we read some more. This is how discoveries of methods to successfully keep other organisms (many now considered “easy�) were made.

I had dinner with Ron when he was in Pittsburgh this past July. The conversation turned to his Stichodactyla haddoni. He has a HUGE S. haddoni that has been spewing eggs regularly for quite some time. I believe he has determined his specimen is acting as a female and he is only getting eggs. (Ron, correct my inaccuracies here.) For some reason, he thinks he get a male and successfully spawn them. I don’t know how, but in any case, we came to the topic of raising 3500 baby carpet anemones. Here is an interesting problem. Anemones tend to fire their nematocysts only in the presence of certain stimulus: their preferred prey item. We can feed them a variety of stuff because we tend to virtually shove it down their throats. Feeding one big anemone something it isn't keen on is no big deal. But 3500 babies? Ron thinks (knows?) that the S. haddoni prefer the stimulus of fish to that of crustaceans or other prey items as adults. Would this indicate that the babies would require larval fish? Quite possible. Ron is considering the idea of pureeing fish in the blender to feed a tank full of babies. I suggested fish blood might be acceptable, too. What is it about certain things that stimulate nematocysts while others don’t? Do we know?

Anyhow, that was just an interesting story about success with anemones and what it might take to go “the next step� with these guys. Now, here is my crazy idea:

Many hobbyists are enthralled with clownfish/anemone relationship and want to reproduce it their tanks, but anemones are tough to keep and their harvest is very detrimental to the ecosystem. What can be done about this? Captive breeding? Hmmmmm.

It is generally accepted that Entacmea quadricolor is the “easiest� of the host anemones to keep in captivity. It also seems to be accepted by a very wide range of fish, including Premnas biaculeatus (Maroon clown) which typically demands Entacmea. The ideal host anemone for the aquarium? Luckily it is also among the few anemones that is prone to pedal laceration or asexual reproduction by fission. We see this happening with regularity in some hobbyists’ tanks. The first step is to determine if the fission is a response to favorable or unfavorable conditions. Since the formation of huge clonal colonies by fission occurs in the wild, I would presume it is indicative of favorable (read: healthy) conditions. So, the second step is to ascertain what is going on in these systems where they reproduce. Are there high nutrient loads? Is the pH maintained higher than usual? Are deep sand beds or refugia employed? What are the anemones fed? How often? You get the point. We would need to know EVERYTHING. If conclusive answers are found, or at least conclusive guesses, you could begin creating an environment in which reproduction would be stimulated. Add some anemones and see what happens.

I’ve been kicking this idea around since talking to Daphne Fautin in Washington last April. The obvious problems are these:

1. It probably won’t work.
2. If it does work, there won’t be any financial reward in it, considering the expense. It would be a beginning only. Not a commercial enterprise. But I guess that is how most good things get started.
3. If it does work, the anemones produced would all be clones of one of an original group. I don’t think this is a huge deal, since the anemones would be produced for the purpose of captive use only. Genetic defects would probably show up early.

I don’t know. It seems like something worth trying. Perhaps with about 2 dozen anemones in 5 or 6 separate systems.

Thoughts?

[Agu]

Kirbster, Why not use the power of the internet? There are a lot of people reading these posts that have had an anemone. Even if the anemone died they have info for you. Post a questionaire laying out parameters,tank specs,additives, etc. Even if you don't find out what works, you'll find out what doesn't.That gives a researcher a good starting point. We all have unique setups, but they all have some things in common.

[Kirbster]

Agu,

That would certainly be part of the plan. The internet makes collection of info easy. Of course, you get your nut cases too, but they are easy to filter out.

I don't know. One of these days...

KA

[herefishiefishie]

Hi everyone. My experience with anenomes is very limited, but I'll put my 2 cents in.

Let me start off by saying that I have never owned any one of the "host" anenomes, and everything I know about them is from reading and talking with other aquarists. I've never liked clownfish much anyway (a heretic!!).

However, there was a time when I was not so knowledgable; I avoided most mistakes with a lot of reading, but bought two Condylactis gigantea anenomes before I really knew what I was getting into. One was a deep purple color with pink tips, and the other a light cream (almost white) color with no color on the tips. They both grew well and quickly for about 2.5 years. Neither ever significantly changes color. I have them in a tank (75 gal hybrid berlin with 160 watts NO light, 1/2 10000k super daylight and 1/2 actinic. Tank parameters are, and have been the entire time the anenomes have been in there, excellent. Both wandered for a while and settled in spots in which they stayed. Both got very big (started at 3" diameter, the purple one is now about 9" in diameter). The purple one picked a spot high up on a crest of LR about 3" under the surface, directly under the lights. The lights are 2" above the surface. The white one chose a spot not quite so high. The white one once caught and ate a juvenile sailfin tang (which I suspect was ailing) about a year ago. When the anenome was eating the sailfin, a large hermit crab (I have learned not to keep these anymore) grabbed the tail of the fish (which was hanging out of the anenome's mouth), and forcibly pulled the dead sailfin out. I removed the fish from the tank when I got home. (this all hapened when I was at work- my fiancee called me when she saw it, and to spare her the possibility of making a mistake and feeling bad, I told her to leave it be until I got home. The dead fish was in the tank only about an hour, and there was no ammonia spike).

I fed both anenomes thawed frozen shrimp and silverside bits, 3 times per week. The purple one is still doing great. However, over the last 2 months, the white anenome has rapidly shrunk, and now will not take food. I gently place a bit of food in the tentacles, as I have always done, but the anenome will not eat it, and eventually the food drifts free. Also, this anenome has wandered back down the rock structure from the spot it occupied for over 2 years, and is now "hiding" in a rock crevice an inch or so from the bottom. I expect that this anenome will die. I will not replace it, nor the other one should it also die.

Now, what happened? I do not know. Was it that the "white" anenome lost most of it zooxanthellae before I bought it, and was doomed? Possibly. Was it that the purple anenome chose a spot nearer to the light, and thus is in "better conditions"? Perhaps. Was the white anenome subtly but fatally injured in the incident with the sailfin and the hermit? Probably, but not definitely (the slow metabolism of anenomes keeps us from seeing an immediate "cause and effect" dynamic in their lives). The truth is that I do not know, and neither does anyone else.

All told, the purple anenome (still doing well) has thrived for anout 2.5 years in the same tank with an anenome that thrived for anout 2 years and 2 months and is now apparently dying. I cannot call this a success. From my understanding, the Condylactis anenomes are "easier" and "hardier" than their pacific cousins, the "host" anenomes. I cannot draw a specific conclusion from all this, except that keeping anenomes is not for me. I will not buy another Condylactis, and I will never try the host anenomes, unless a major scientific breakthrough occurs, and proof can be furnished that these creatures can be successfully kept in captivity. This will be many years down the road at the soonest, and perhaps never.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for reading.

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HFF

Please stock your tank lightly; crowded fish are unhappy fish.
Please don't flush unwanted or misbehaving fish; donate them to you LFS.


[This message has been edited by herefishiefishie (edited 10-10-1999).]

[Fern]

Couldn't resist adding to this thread on anemones. An aquaintance of mine that works at our local LFS has just shared his experience with me. He has begun using ocean water in his tank and within the past two months his three anemones have split (bred) and grown twice their size. He now has 7 anemones in his tank and all appear to be thriving. Using ocean charts, he has been able to locate some waters that he claims are relatively pure due to currents and back washing, etc. (I don't understand all this much), thus collects his water there and dilutes it down with R/O water to obtain a salinity of 1.024 (our ocean water is 1.027). He beleives his success is due to the natural live plancton and such in the ocean water. I want to watch and monitor his progress and if it continues I may give this a try. Needless to say his fish and corals and thriving too! Just a thought. Fern