Club Group Purchase

[cerreta]

OK, here it is. . .

I am going to organize a group purchase for zooanthids and maybe a few other coral frags, and shrooms if available. All items will be purchased from the same vendor, to save on shipping fees.

The purchase will be made around June 27. I will place the specimens in the fuge for the week and hope they are all opened up by the weekend.

Would people be available for a meeting on Sat Jul 2rd or Sun July 3rd?



The plan for dividing corals is up for debate. Two options I can think of are as follows:

1. Fantasy Draft style: A picking order is assigned by drawing cards out of a deck. If you pick last in round one, you go first in round two, etc. and the order of selection is reversed for the remainder of round two, etc.

2. Random Draw: Pick order by drawing cards out of a deck before each round. You may go first three times in a row, or bad luck could have you drawing last in each round.

I will let yall deside how to do it. Majority wins. Any other ideas???




For payment, I need to get a count of interested parties and an idea of how much you would like to spend. It will likely cost anywhere from $8.00 - $15.00 per specimen. It all depends on what is purchased. To keep this thing open to everyone, it would be best to allow each participant to buy a share.

For example, lets say each specimen cost $10.00. Let's say 30 specimens are bought. Person A may want to buy 2 shares, they chip in twenty bucks. Person B may choose to buy 6 shares, they chip in $60.00. Does this seem reasonable.

Another twist, is that we can split up the drawings by groups. Zoos and shrooms will likely cost less than sps or softies. So, person A may choose only to buy shares of the zoos at $10.00 each. While the shares for sps/softies may be $18 each.

Person B may want 4 share of zoos for $40, and 2 shares of sps for $36. Person B would participate in the draws for both drawings.

Does this seem too complicated? Should we just stick to buying shrooms and zoos for the first time?


Please list your comments and concerns. If interested in participating in the Drawing, please state:
1. Your name,
2. How much you wish to spend
3. Intrest in Zoos, Shrooms, Softies, SPS, LPS, other.

No one will be held accountable for this info at this time, it is just to collect information for the purchase. Once, the purchase is made, all the shares will be determined and people can buy shares at that time.

To keep it simple, payment will be due when you select your animals. Nothing due up front. I will bear the initial cost. That seems to be the easiest. It would be a pain to pre-collect.

[phlipper84]

not sure if I am posting to right spot but will try. Don't yell too loudly if I am in wrong spot.
Just went to Phoenix for their frag auction and it was a great success for everyone involved. At least it seemed that way to me. Group buys are fine, however Paying some of these rare prices with the idea of fragging them and making money on them is fairly tough. Just look at these people going crazy with the Lords and Acans. The prices are through the roof. I was in a store in Phoenix and they had a colony for 1500 dollars. What is weird is these seem to be one of the faster propogating corals. Who knows. My idea would be to agree on something that is rare to this area, and that most everyone wants(you will never get a 100% consensus IMO) and bring it in grow it out and then everyone gets their cutting or something like that. If you have success raising it then maybe you run local auctions, give others a crack at it and raise money for propogating costs. In Phoenix they say they frag 3 times and then sell the colony. figure by the time they have fragged 3 times the market is flooded.
Now I do have one other issue/thought. I am in to this group buy as long as we decide if it is EITHER going to be for the idea of raising out and fragging, perhaps auction style. Or we are getting together to buy pieces that are large enough that when divided, they are not the size of a quarter. I only have one tank and it is reasonably large, and it is going to be bigger in a month. These tiny pieces that are being sold out there disappear in about two seconds. Either I forget where I put them, or the fish, snails , hermits etc think they look better someplace else. In the past two weeks I have spent enough that I probably could have gotten one rare zoo rock with 50-100 polyps on it and been able to see it and enjoy it. Will track the thread and see what direction we are headed in.

[phlipper84]

oh...and as to the question of what to buy. Get one thing or type of thing depending upon how many participants. Spreading choices too thin will lead only to a bunch of not very special stuff as opposed to something really awesome. My vote is for zoos or ricordia. I saw an awesome one at Southwest but the price was like 50 per polyp and it would disappear in a second. Me and crazy glue don't mix!

[cerreta]

Right spot. Thanks for the comments.

The original idea was to bring fun to a group meeting. We wanted to bring color to our reefs and allow corals to grow over time. That's why we are going with frags at this time, but we can get bigger stuff too, if the vendor has it and there is interest.

However, buying larger pieces and fragging them out is beyond my skill level and tank size. Maybe someone else is willing to perform this. Anyone?

[phlipper84]

not me...I only frag by accident!

[phenom5]

i might be interested.

here's the thing, first i'm still considering upgrading. i saw a tank that blew me away and might move to an 18g tall. this would mean i would be getting rid of my current setup...which btw, if anyone is interested hit me up with a PM, and of course if i just sell off my livestock i'll give you guys here first crack...i'll keep you posted. if i decide not to do this then i'm in for a group buy. i would not be able to make a weekend meeting b/c of work, so this presents another problem. i'd be glad to help frag larger colonies, however i don't have a large enough tank to hold the frags.

[phenom5]

btw, any idea which vendor you'd want to go through?

[kscrimshaw]

I am definitely interested in zoos and ricordia also, but might be into other shrooms/softies/lps, depending on what they are. I don't think my tank or my lighting is ready for sps, though!

I'll probably buy up to 5 pieces or $50, though that's subject to change depending on what we get and what may paycheck looks like that week! As far as the selection order, I'm not strongly opinionated, but lean towards the Fantasy Draft style.

[cerreta]

It seems there is not as much interest in doing a group purchase as once thought. Please pipe in with your ideas. Are you all opposed to an Internet buy? Are there other concerns?

So, far there are four definately interested (including PM's) people, and one, maybe.

In the last thread, Tom, Jon, Rich, and a few others said they were interested. Are you guys still interested in the group buy?

[phlipper84]

I think I might be interested but more as a way to defray shipping costs, not so much as a frag fest.

[ghostbear29]

Sorry scott my computer is finally back online. I would love to do something like this but would rather go through a LFS and have the control aspect of what we are getting. (been screwed too many times) I also would like to get something rare and beautiful. Something I can propagate and grow and enjoy. JM2C. thanks. See ya at the meeting.

[phenom5]

i'm in...but i can't make it to the meeting, so i don't know how to swing it. don't really want to be left with the frag that nobody wanted...

personally, i'd rather go through an online vendor. i have yet to see much that has impressed me locally.

btw, where's southwest SW? i looked them up in the phonebook and they are not at the address listed in the yellow pages.

[jeasley]

I would be more interested in shrooms and ricordias. I just spent a bundle on LPS and I think I need a little more color diversity.

[Roll221]

I was at the frag auction last Saturday also, Great event!!! I find it hard to believe that we could not be able to do something like that here in our area (the drive to Pheonix is for me is a killer). I would like to see a count of who here (and yes even all the lurkers) have stuff in there tanks they could trade. Even if it was something you bought but now really don't like anymore. This would be a perfect opportunity to trade it for something you really like. I like the buy in idea, the auction thing can really drag out like some of the really nice items last Sat got caught up in bidding wars.

Ed

[ghostbear29]

ok im in for a really colorful ric. Like some of that orange and pink stuff. Hell, one polyp would be cool.

[owsi]

I'm for trying the auction here, but prefer at a resturant since this would open someones home to people not yet known. If Ed comes up you'll all be get hooked on SPS, he's a Master Reef Farmer.

[phlipper84]

since Ed is the farmer, and I think I saw a lot of his stuff in Phoenix, perhaps he might be a good person to take possesion of whatever is bought in a group buy and grow it out so we all may benefit from either proceeds for further buys, or larger frags over time.

[Roll221]

Thanks John,

I am not a farmer per say, just have a field of corals in my tank that regularly need harvesting. I really do not have any room in my display tank for any corals, I literally do not have a free space bigger then 4 square inches. I am in the process of setting up a 20 gal frag tank to move some frags into and grow out but no ETA on it's completion. The auction thing was just a thought to get some trading going amongst us hobbyist instead if throwing all our money out to online megastores.

Ed

[phlipper84]

oops.....Look like you had a house attached to your fish tank! Too many directions going on this thread. Perhaps this group buy idea should be further addressed at club meeting? Seems as if the idea of a group buy is little more than an idea at this point. The auction idea may be nice for everyone. I know that my tank is being over-run with a variety of mushroom rocks that could use thinning.

[cerreta]

Ok, thanks for all the comments. I think we are coming together on some issues and ideas. These should all be expressed at the next meeting as well. BTW, I will be backpacking a secluded region of Colorado and can not attend.

So it seems the most interest is in zoos, and ricordia; with some softies, lps and then sps. There is also an interest in getting larger, rare pieces and trading stuff that is not wanted or has grown out. Finally, there is also an interest in buying stuff to grow out, and using our LFS.

As you see, this can become a huge chore and a very broad spectrum to meet everyones needs. Therefore, we should discuss these issues at the meeting and see if we can divvy out some of the work based on skill levels and availability in our tanks.


For this forum, I would like to narrow the scope to what I am capable of doing for the July 3rd (Sunday) date.

First, the objectives of this Fantasy Draft style group buy are to buy a selection of zoos and ricordia (may try to get other pieces if avaialble, but not this will not be the focus) from an Internet store for a low cost. We all share the shipping fees and hopefully can come away with decent zoos and shrooms for around $10 a share.

Second, I do not have the skill or tank to do fragging or growing out, so buying larger colonies and dividing them are out. But, this would be a great idea to explore in a meeting, for one willing to do this work. So, the store I am buying from sells small frags ready to go . . . easy and low work required on my end.

Third, I like Ed's idea of trading and bringing stuff from your tanks that you may not want. I welcome this for the upcoming event on July 3rd. Not sure how to organize this. Any Ideas? Maybe one can list the stuff they will bring on this thread and we can go from there. I can give up some nice fluorescent green yuma shrooms, maybe about three or four.

Fourth, I really like the idea of accquiring ricordia, but my source may not have the best selection. So as an alternative, I can buy a large colony of shrooms and seperate them. This does not require too much work and I have successfully done this before. The benefit of this action, is that I can shop the LFS for some rare specimens. Hopefully I can find a colony of 8-10 for less than $100.

I will contact Hector and Zach for help and availabilty on this in the next few days.

Fifth, this event, is intended to be small and friendly. The draft style selection is intended to be a fun way of enjoying the hobby, meeting fellow hobbiests that we see at the LFS and have no iedea who you are, and going home with some new animals for a small investment.

Now that the agenda is more manageable, who would like to attend? Roughly, how much would you like to spend? Can you bring any specimens from your tank to sell / swap?

[cerreta]

Oh, I also wanted to add that the buy is from an LFS on the coast, it is not a mega store. The quality and value is remarakable, that is why I chose them. To see a few of the zoos I got from them check out the other thread on this forum. It has pictures of the zoo frags, which were said to have 8-12 polyps. Most came with 20-40 polyps, only one had 12, the fewest.

I will do my best to get some local rics. If you guys have seen somethere out there you want, please let me know, and I will check into buying the colony.

I heard one bid for the orange/pink rics. Where did you see them? How much are you willing to pay per polyp of these?

[phlipper84]

can't find thread! What is the title?

[Tucson_Phish]

I would like to Agree about the LFS for the purchase. if we find one that will purchase what we want and then if what we get in is not up to the standards we are looking for they can then return it.. or keep it for sale in there shop..

I have heard so many horror stories of guys buying on line and the crap they got..

two I have a 29 gal tank set up as my Quarantine tank that only has two Clowns in it right now.. (it has been up and running for 6 months now with weekly water changes.. we can use it but I do not have the expertise to do the flagging..

just one mans views.. did I say count me in?

[cerreta]

Phlipper84 the thread has been bump to the top. "Update: Online Zooanthid Purchase"

Tom, I do want to include the LFS's. I will try to get a ric colony or two. However, the best deals are through direct sellers and fellow reefers like ourselves that have their aquacultured stuff available in small webstores. This also reduces ocean depletion whcih we have discussed at the last meeting to be a concern.

ALSO, my fuge may not be large enough to house all this stuff. I might need help in that area.

[ghostbear29]

one thing scott. They get it at the same place everyone else does. Like the shipments from Tucson also go to phoenix and vis versa. the thing about internet is the one in the pic is usually not what you get...(personal experience and 78.00 dollars later) But if we can get that shipper to send it to the LFS, we are safe and the money isn't wasted on more crap that we already have. make sense? Kinda rambling. sorry. I say we do that ric thing like you said give it to tom and we can prop using some of the other guys experience with it. Now I have fragged shrooms and they are a piece of cake. But Rics may be a little more tempermant. i dunno. But Tom, if your in im in.

[cerreta]

I still think it is a lot for us to ask Zach or Hector to buy corals for our club at discount rates, and then we look at it and decide. . . nah, we don't want that.

I had a lengthy discussion with Zach today. To my surprise, he wants to be a part of this group buy despite there being very little benefit to him.

I won't speak for Zach, he said he will pipe in later. However, in our discussion today, it appears that he feels very supported by our club members and wishes to help where he can. He has volunteered to host the July 3rd fantasy draft group buy. It will be after store hours on Sunday.

I am buying quantity in order to maximize cost per item. As a reminder, the goal of this buy is to purchase a large variety of quality, colorful zoos and shrooms/rics that are small in size. We can get more for the buck and let them grow out in our tanks.

Possibly in the future, we will remember who got that super cool zoo or ricordia and then ask for a frag trade.

Therefore, the event will not take place in my home, and the newbies will get the chance to view Zach's store. I'm sure he would be happy to sell other stuff too.

Some other issues:

It would be very nice if we could all decide on a shroom colony or two from Zach's store and we can add them to the other purchases. He had a nice one with 10-12 polyps for $110, I think they were hairy shrooms.

Anything available from Hector's place worth considering?

I am trying to get about 100 specimens for this event. Too many? How many people will show up on Sunday?

I am in the buying phase, and would hate to get stuck with more stuff than would fit in my tank if this flops. Should I worry?

Since the LFS is hosting this event, we should all chip in to help offset the cost of using his store for our purposes. Zach said he is willing to do this for our club at no charge, with hopes we would buy a colony or two. I personally think we should do more. How about $1.00 per specimen? Not much, but will offset some cost of using his store, while keeping our individual price low.

Even though I am spearheading this event, it is important to me to include everyones ideas as best as possible so the experience will be beneficial to all. I hope this shows, and I hope this works out.
If not, I will have to buy a new tank for all the new stuff to grow. Not to mention, Katherine won't speak to me for a while.

OK, who is in?

Last thoguht, the super colorful rics (orange/pink) are expensive. Would you want one for $15-$20 ea, or is that too rich? Most of the other stuff should cost about $10/frag.

[cerreta]

Phlipper just brought up another issue I wanted to avoid until the purchase was made. But lets see if we can discuss it now.

He asked if he should commit to shares now. I don't have a total price yet, so no.


But here is the central dogma.

Since I am sponsoring this, I am taking extra risk by being stuck with the less desirable corals at the end of the draft rounds.

The best way I can see to run this event is to add up the total price of all corals and divide by total number of specimens. Then each share will cost a fixed amount. Next, we divide total shares by the number of people participating to get total lots.

In this manner, it permits the draft to continue until every coral is gone. That way, we all get our fair share of the less desirables, just like we get a fair share at the best stuff.

For example:

Total price is $800. Specimens = 80. People participating = 8.
So, the share price is $10 a share with 80 shares available. Therefore, there will be 8 draft rounds. Each lot purchased would cost $80, and you would get 8 corals.

Now, that may be too expensive for some people. Creativity is permitted. Two other people may decide to split one lot. It costs them $40 each and they alternate picks until the last round. Then I and someone else may choose to each buy 1.5 lots. Our cost is $120 each and we get 12 corals each.

This strategy is the best I can come up with. I am open to ideas. The advantage of this method is to prevent someone from buying just 4 shares. They would pick in the first four rounds and get the best stuff and then walk away while the others divvy up the less desirables.

BTW, I don't anticipate too many undesirables.

Any other ideas about how to do this?

[ghostbear29]

i also had a thought. What about livestock? I know a few of us are waiting for the lfs to start getting those sexy shrimp in! It would probably be cheaper if we bought in a group for that too right? Just an idea. Lookin good though. By the way, zach and hector have told me they are looking into the Ricordia issue. Both really don't have those bright ones that you see at the "other" store. But after I saw the prices, I figured that a group buy into one of those rocks would be cool and cheap at the same time.

[cerreta]

I am working on a deal that would land six orange/pink and six orange/blue for about $18 ea. These are loose too, so no work invlolved.

I can't get the shrimps, or any livestock for that matter.

[phlipper84]

problem with livestock is you really need to just work on a group buy vs. a drawing as a way to defray shipping costs and perhaps get a group buy as opposed to getting a deal by fragging out zoos or ricordia. Personally I really want a nice clam in my tank. Was out today and they wanted close to 200 for 3-4 inch models. Definitely not going into my tank at that price!

[cerreta]

Whalaa!!! Here is a sample of the rics I am trying to score.

http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/rics.JPG

[phlipper84]

go rics go! Go Rics Go!!!!!!

[phlipper84]

How much did I say I was putting in? :-)

[cerreta]

That's what I've been trying to say:rolleye1: This stuff is good! I can see it and you can't, so it is harder for you all to trust my judgement. The stuff will deliver to Zach's store a couple days before the event. You can check it out and beg the honey for more dough once you see it.

[cerreta]

Here is some more pics to wet your whistle. These have been bought. There are roughly 60 animals. Still have the zoos to buy. Enjoy the pics and lets here who wants in!


A variety of 30+ polyps
http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/shroom-varietypack.jpg

Rare Tonga Bullseyes, this colony will need to be divided
http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/shrooms-rareTongaBullseye.jpg

Couple of burgandys
http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/shroom-burgundy.jpg

A nice size steelblue ricordia
http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/ric-steelgrey.jpg

Cool looking green ric that is soon to be two, especially when I get my hands on it. I can *** this one. . . hehehe. . . snip!
http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/ric-green.jpg

[cerreta]

oops, I tried to say <"frag" this one>. Not sure why that rates editing.

[phenom5]

i guess i'm out...can't make it to the meeting, gotta work.

cerreta,
if you get stuck with a bunch of frags let me know, i might be interested. probably not to interested in any shrooms or rics, but i would be interested in zoos, LPS, maybe softies depending on what they are.

[Tucson_Phish]

I'm not saying to ask them to discount the corals to us.. what I'm saying is they have more control of what the get.. the LFS get a better coral sent to them simply by the fatc that they purchase more than a coulb would at a one time buy.

110 sound a little pricey I will check with Hector and see what he has and get a feel for his prices I will take my camera and see if he will let me post a few images

[Aquatic Oasis]

I spoke with Cerreta about hosting the coral group purchase atthe store. I don't want to make anybody mad about this or anything so let me know if anybody has a problem with this. But I think the idea is to have the stuff get here a couple days early so people can come in and check the stuff out in advance. Then on the day of the meeting we can all come in after hours and have the meeting and coral sale/trade. The only problem with doing this at the store is that it needs to be done after the store closes. This may be difficult for the people from Sierra Vista. We can't do it before the store opens because we are busy prepping for our numerous maintenance accounts. We can't really do it during the day due to the size of the store and the amount of people coming and going. We don't want to have to have a bouncer outside letting people in, now do we. We do close at 6 on Sundays, so this is not too late. Let me know if you all are interested in this and Scott and I will work out the final details. See what Hector has to say also. He may prefer to do something at his shop. Don't be afraid to tell me that you don't want it over here. I am just trying to help. I know that the club (as an entity) should probably stay impartial to the local fish stores.

[jeasley]

Whoa! Okay has this stuff been ordered? I thought we were still talking about it. What are we talking about getting again?

[kscrimshaw]

After seeing some of these pics, I am so excited about this! Are we still looking at getting some zoos, or maybe wait until we have at least one successful buy under our belts! I can't wait to fill up my tank some more!

Please keep me counted in for this, even if I don't make the meeting this weekend. My hubby works most weekends, and someone has to stay with the munchkins. (Trust me, you don't want them there!) I will find a way to make it on the 3rd! Having it later in the day actually works better for me.

[Tucson_Phish]

I just came back from Oasis tropical fish

sevral diffrent type of polyps in stock now - all are colonies

Red bullseye
Blue Bullseye
Orange Mushrooms
Red Mushrooms
Blue Mushrooms
Stripped Mushrooms
Purple Mushrooms
Green Hairy Mushrooms
Green Mushrooms
Purple Hairy Mushroom
Gold Mushrooms
Red rics
Pink rics


Oh and he has Sexy Shrimp as well

[Tucson_Phish]

Hey I was hoping to get the job as the bouncer..... heheheheh I very much understand the not during business her...

Did I say count me in?

[cerreta]

Jon, I have been buying and finalizing orders today.

I will be leaving town tomorrow for a backpacking adventure in CO. I will return on Sunday. That is why I am making arrangements now. What you have seen listed was bought. There are also a few other shrooms not shown (no pics).

Today, I finalized an order for 37 zoo frags. There will be some blues in this order with a few of the rare pinks. Some are multicolors and so forth.

Tom, since I will be gone, can you find a colony from Hector's and one from Zachs that the club agrees on (or that you are fond of), so we can add it to the order.

I will try to load sample pics of the zoos. You will be happy!!!

[phenom5]

cerreta,
what is this super secret place your ordering zoos from?

[hancockrich]

well im still up for zoos, the wife dose not want any ric's or shrooms thu...and my mind has changed about sps..so now i want some of them too....rich...

ps...where is the super secret place

[cerreta]

OK, the zoo purchase has been made. Here are a few pics.

I will disclose the store names at the July 3rd meeting. These guys are great and discounts have been made for our club.

It looks like we have about 80 or so animals for the event. That is a bunch! We are likly to add a few more from the LFS too. Once all the info is tallied, I should post the share cost.

The zoos were bought from the same dealer I used last time. The pics of those frags are in the other thread. Those zoos were a part of a zoo 9 pack and 5 pack. This time I ordered two 9 packs and 15 select zoos. The select zoos are the more desirable, trade name type of zoos. Like eagle eye, fire and ice, etc. I asked for mostly blues or a variety thereof, and pinks.

This dealer does not have pics of each specimen available because many of the frags are broken from larger colonies the day of shipment. However, if this order is anything like the last order I received, then we are sure to be happy.


http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/Zoos_Blue-Green.jpg

http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/Zoos_Blue-Pink-Green.jpg

http://members.cox.net/sdcerreta/Zoos_Fire-and-ice.jpg

[kscrimshaw]

Is the group purchase still going on this weekend? If so, where and when? I haven't heard any updates for a while.

[cerreta]

I will start a new thread tonight with all the details. I am back from Colorado, temp was 65-85. I wanna go back.