Where Is Everyone??

[RustySnail]

OK... Am I posting too many messages or something??

Since I infrequently post to RC, I was just getting caught up on the threads...

I could use some help with controlling phosphate in my tank. It is not confirmed that this is what is causing my algae blooms, but since Ca levels had gotten low (too much halimeda growing, too little KW dripping); I figure that it must be phospahtes.

How do you guys manage to keep feeding levels high, yet have little to no algae growth? There must be some secret here, besides just dripping KW. For those that feed their corals and fish very regularly, how frequent are your water changes, and how much volume do you change?

Russ

[dsb1829]

Originally posted by RustySnail
OK... Am I posting too many messages or something??


Never :D

It sounds like you have a combination of things going on here. First, take a few minutes to post all of your tank parameters. Let us know what size tank, age, setup (skimmer?), what you dose with, what levels are for Ca, KH, PO4, O2, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and PH.

Persistant algae is a sign that something is inherrently wrong with your practices or setup. Or something very big has crashed or died.

Do a couple of large water changes, run carbon and change it frequently, pick up some polyfilter for additional pollutant removal, and testing the water regularly are a good start to gaining the upper hand. Also, adding a large clump of caulerpa to the tank may also help in nutrient export.

Also what fish do you have in the tank?

[RustySnail]

OK... Here is the story... I won't be able to give you all the params you need, as I don't have a phosphate kit currently. So I will give you guys an overview of what has been happening with my tank the last few months, so you can have a better picture of the situation.

Tank Set-Up Prior to algae Blooms:

60gallon 'pentagon' corner tank
Sumpless
Built-in overflow/refugium, w/trays for media.
Normally, don't run any carbon, etc., or floss filters.
AquaC Remora Pro HOT skimmer-- Collects about 24oz of skimmate in 3 days.
DSB
75# LR
~1200gph turnover rate when the pump strainers are nice and clean. Good water motion in tank, but not a whirlpool.
Tank Temp: 79-82F
Specific Gravity: 1.025 (true SG)
Tank is approximately 1.5 years old.

Fish in the tank are the following:

Blue Tang - about 4"
Juvenile Maroon Clown - about 2"
Pink Dottyback - A copepod's worst nightmare
Cleaner Wrasse - steals the shrimp when I feed corals :-\

Have a cleaner shrimp (noctournal), small mithrax, 4 turbo snails, and an overgrown 'unknown' snail from Palau... ;)

Normally I feed twice a day, usually spirulina flake.

Factors that led to algae blooms:

Last fall was my graduating quarter at UCDavis. I had a really hellish lab class (all you engineers out there know what I'm talking about) and I did not have much time for tank maintenance - let alone sleep. I let things go a little too long w/o a water change, and as a result some bryopsis started growing. Ph, alkalinity were good, but Ca was a little low (around 350). When I did a water change in late November, the tank responded fairly positively, and I figured I had saved it from getting out of hand.

Another month went by, and while there was some improvement at first, it quickly started having brown algae blooms (this is not diatoms). It was not too bad, so I did another water change ~15 gallons which is about 1/2 of the water volume. This is more than I normally change; usually I do 10g changes. This did nothing for the system. Algae blooms just got worse, bryopsis, etc. Decided to let it go and hope that it would just 'pass'. No such luck, things just got more mucky.

At this point I checked Ca, and pH. Ph was down to 8.0, and Ca was around 300. Nitrate levels were below 5ppm. Obviously the Ca level has been dropping. I have never dripped KW regularly, and up unitl now, I have not needed to. At this point corals were stressed, even the octobubble looked like it was going to start receeding. Instead of doing an immediate water change (figured it would be too stressful), I started adding buffer and dripping KW. Did that for about a week, and corals recovered nicely, except for my galaxea, which just got worse. Also started washing brown junk off of the corals and rock w/turkey baster, and filtered water through floss. Removed filter and washed daily. Reduced light levels 50%.


Currently...

Tonight I did a 20g water change (approx 65%), after washing rocks/corals down, and ripping out as much bryopsis as possible. I also removed about a gallon of halimeda which I was using to help scrub nitrate/phosphate (but it was also consuming too much calcium). And I stirred up the upper layer of the sandbed. Let it filter out overnight before doing the water change. Added phosguard, de-nitrate, and carbon (about 1/2 liter of each).


You won't believe how fast the brown stuff grows. I could wash it off in the morning, and in 10 hours the tank will look like I have not done anything.

So, that's about it. I have not re-checked parameters, but I figure the Ca is back up to around 375 or so, and phosphate/nitrate must be a bit lower. Hopefully the phosguard/carbon will help scrub whatever nutrient is causing the problem...

Noticed that the water seemed to burn my skin a little when doing the WC. The brown algae must be really irritating, because I have never had the water cause my skin to feel like it was stinging. Could my corals be releasing toxins to battle the algae? Would this be detectable by smell or water burning skin?

How low can I run the lighting without causing corals/anemone to crash? I have it down to 1- 55W bulb, with the canopy open, and the brown stuff still grows.


Thanks for the help...

Russ

[SunfishFun]

While we wait for more experienced members to chime in I will offer my two cents...

1¢: I have a Salifert phosphate kit you can use to be sure it's elevated and to monitor changes.

1¢: Have you tested your water change water? Wouldn't hurt.


Sorry, I know how frustrating this is for you.

[dsb1829]

Okay for starters it is going to take a lot more water changes. Check out this article: http://www.reefs.org/library/article/t_brightbill_wc.html There are a couple of other good articles out there, but this not only addresses reducing contaminants, but also maintaining Ca and Mg levels too.

At this point the micro algae is outcompeting the rest of you algae, skimmer, and livestock. It is more than likely keeping your nitrates and phosphates fairly close to acceptable levels. During the worst algae outbreak we ever had our water tested with zero phosphate or nitrate.

So how do you win? Basically siphon out the algae. Do water changes. Wait. The only way that water changes are effective is if they are performed close enough together not to allow for buildup of the nutrients. For example you changed 15g of water. If you let the tank sit for two weeks before another change the water will more than likely be back up to the higher level of nutrient. However if you do 15g water changes every two days for the next week and a half you will successfuly dilute these elevated levels and bring your tank back into balance. The new water will be colonized with the proper nitrobacters within about 8 hours and your animals won't be able to detect the diference in the water (other than it being cleaner).

On a 1.5yr old tank this is not a common problem. Especially since you feed light and are not stocked heavily. Any changes or mishaps that could have lead to the nutrient imbalance?

Just be happy it is only a 60g tank. When mine was at its worst it was in a 180g tank. Imagine doing 50% water changes every few days on that size tank:( .

Also keep on top of changing out that carbon and other resin filters. Since everything is pretty mucked up these should probably be changed every 5-7 days.

[RustySnail]

Thanks for the link Doug...

I had read that article a year or so ago, and recalled that you need to do big water changes to get the water chemistry to improve. Thanks for the advice that it will take several frequent changes to get things back where they should be. Hopefully, a couple more WC's and things will start getting back to normal. I have a feeling that terpene levels are pretty high, due to corals being irritated by the brown algae. I just wish there were a way to destroy the algae, in addition to starving it. I guess the only thing to do would be to use a UV Sterilizer or a Ozonizer to for that. I need to start dripping KW continuously to get the Ca level back up, but my evap rate is just too slow without having a sump. Would Turbo Calcium (Kent) be a good choice to supplement KW dripping?

To answer your question about the cause of nutrient level increase...

I was starting to feed my corals more in late august to october (giving live shrimp chunks, brine, brine napulli, etc.). Coral growth increased dramatically, but then I started having algae growth (bryopsis) so I cut back on the food additions. I guess that it was just too much for the system to handle (with my infrequent water changes), and it got to the point of system meltdown.


But it seems like there are more factors at play here than just water quality... I have had algae blooms before; and generally a good sized water change, and some carbon/phosguard does the trick. Last time I had a bryopsis bloom, I did a water change and ripped out most of it, and the rest just died away. With this brown algae, it seems to be much more efficient at collecting nutrients, since it is waterborne. I definitely need to get caulerpa growing to mop up the excess nutrients in the system. Hardest part about that is finding it at the LFS. Hopefully someone will bring some to the propagation meeting this month.


Pretty sure the brown slime algae was introduced with a coral purchase. It seems to be very bad for the corals; it attacks them directly, as it is not just growing on rocks/sand. SPS seem to be the most directly effected by this (lost a few frags/galaxea), Xenia and GSP are highly bothered by it as well. Leathers, Brains, Bubbles, and Anemones seem to be able to fend it off as long as they are healthy. This stuff is definitely more efficient at utilizing nutrients than cyanobacteria or hair algaes.

I will keep trying to build calcium levels, and reduce the nutrient levels, and do another water change or two. Several of my corals opened up more robustly this evening, running lighting at 50% (110W). I think I am on the right track, I just need to keep at it...

Thanks again...

Russ