Basic certification

[Larry M]

In looking around at the local dive shops, cost for the basic course varies from $190 to around $350. What should a person look for? Is there a difference in these courses or what is the deal with the variation in price?

------------------
Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[ReefKrazie]

If you are serious about getting certified, I reccommend any NASDS (National Association of Scuba Diving Schools) certified course. The course runs (depending when and where you take the course between $125 and $275 for a class. You will spend between $1,000 and $3500 depending on what gear you want and if you want a complete package. PADI and NAUI are NOT as in depth about many things. NASDS is the best for safety and knowledge about equipment and dive sites ect... SCUBA is AWESOME, the biggest reef tank I ever saw!!!!!!!!

[Larry M]

Thanks, good to know. Do most people buy their equipment or is renting a good option?

------------------
Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[rshimek]

Hi Larry,

I generally agree about the NASDS vs NAUI or PADI; however a lot of the differences between the instructional programs is cosmetic. Due to liability issues, the certifying "agencies" were forced to work together in the late 1970s and early 1980s to make their programs essentially compareable.

NASDS tends to be a lot more "shop" oriented than the other two, and tends to push buying or working through the particular shop. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on the shop owner and their philosophy.

Most people rent for a while and then purchase. A lot depends on what kind of diving you intend to do and where - there is a big difference in equipment needs between a casual snorkeler and somebody who will be diving in both cold and warm marine situations. Some years ago, the certifying agencies determined average certified diver did less than 12 dives and then dropped out of the hobby. If you have purchased $3000 worth of gear, that turns out to be a lot of bucks/bang.

If you are serious about it, then consider that your life depends on your gear - and do you REALLY want rental stuff?

Cheers, Ron

[This message has been edited by rshimek (edited 01-22-2000).]

[SkiDog]

The price may be based on what equipment the shop is going to let you use, and what they expect you to buy. Many shops sell package deals that may include a mask, fins, and a snorkel. Also it may reflect their pool costs, if they have a pool in the shop, or have to rent pool time in someone else's pool. One other factor may be class size { IMO seven students or less } is best.

Now I DONT like package deals !! you should pick the equipment that YOU like, and best fits your body, and your needs { not just because thats what the shop sells !!!!!!.. )
It's like buying your first skimmer, do your research, or you may get burned.

Just find an instructor that you like and will take the time to teach you correctly.
PADI,IANTD,NAUI.. whatever. The instructor is the key.

Ok, things that you might want to buy for yourself and your wife { AKA things you dont want to rent }.
Since you want to Mexico, you might want to get a dive-skin, or polar-tec to wear.
A mask that fits.
A good pair of booties { shoes } IMO hard soles are best.
Fins { that fit well over your booties, and that you can swim well with }
Snorkel.
A small knife.
A good light > 8 watts, and a small backup light.
IMO every diver should have his/her own DIVE COMPUTER.
Also join DAN, and get some dive insurance.
It's cheap and you never know.

Regulators, well.. it would be a good idea, but if you are not sure you want to dive a-lot then you might be better off renting.
BCDs , same as regulators, and a pain to pack when wet.

Try www.searover.com (http://www.searover.com)
Go into Randys SCUBA links, you will find a-lot of data, and links to almost everything SCUBA.

HAVE FUN, it's a whole new world underwater.

HTH
Later
Mark

[blackfish]

Hey Larry,
Great job with this new forum topic! I'm sure you'll inspire more good advice and discussion here too. It also gives me a chance to contribute more than lurk, since I've been diving and teaching diving since the early 70's (yikes, I'm getting to be an old fart diver!).

IMHO, you should do the same "shopping" for the right dive shop that you do for a LFS. :o What you want is a knowledgeable but effective instructor, and I firmly believe that depends on the person and not on the agency they're with. I agree with Ron above that all the major agencies today teach pretty much the same basic curriculum. I've seen and worked with some truly outstanding - and some truly not so's - from ALL the various certifying businesses. Factor egos out of the decision if you can.

Check the following possibilites for differences between basic course prices:

# hrs instruction (class, pool, open water),
# open water dives,
whether book and instructional material are included in the basic price,
whether complete equipment rental is included for pool sessions and for all open water dives.

If it ain't included up front, find out what the add-ons will cost (all the items above will be necessary) and you'll be able to arrive at a valid comparison. It may also tell you a bit about the shop if they are holding out on all the details...

I'd recommend you look at purchasing your own mask, fins and snorkel since fit of these basic tools is essential to your comfort and ability to learn. You may not need to do this until the equipment lecture (usually the first or second class session). You can buy the other items a bit later (usually "package deals" are available) as your experience grows, or you have bought all the corals and fish you need for the month... You will eventually spend several thousand for all your gear but (as Ron also points out) that depends heavily on where and how often you'll be thrashing around.

Enough for this post. HTH! E-mail me if you want, I might have an extra copy of a NOAA Diving Manual with your name on it...
cheers,
blackfish

[Larry M]

Thanks for all the tips. I'll do some shopping around before I sign up for a course now that I know a little more about what to look for. It's hard to say how often I'll be able to dive, can't imagine freshwater lake diving is too exciting, so that might limit it to winter vacations, for a while at least.
We are leaving for Cozumel in two weeks, and I don't have time to get certified before then. From what I hear it is mostly deeper dives there anyway. So it looks like snorkel city this time around.
Anyone ever dive Saba? We sailed past it last year on a cruise, beautiful little island. I have read about the diving, sounds awesome.

------------------
Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[bmw]

Hi Larry,
I would add gloves to the other stuff mentioned. Your skin softens up quickly in saltwater and can be cut rather easly. Not to mention the stuff that can sting the skin and give you(me at least)an uncomfortable rash. I ended up usually wearing something from neck to feet for that reason-guess it would depend if you are just going to glide above a reef or get down and dirty into it :)
b.

[Larry M]

SkiDog--I checked out that link, looks like a great site. I thought this page was really informative for someone like me just getting into this:
http://www.searover.com/rca/scuba/opinions/scuba_opn_divers_and_equipment.shtml

Thanks.



------------------
Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[SkiDog]

Hi Larry.
Happy to hear that you enjoyed you visit to searover.com.

Also, if you have time in Cozumel, you might want to look into a " Resort Course ".
So you can do some supervised dives, and get a look at some cool stuff down there.
It is a one day thing, that you might enjoy.
Most hotels have them.

Have Fun
Later
Mark

[Reef Junkie]

Larry,
Hey. I just wanted to chime in here too. I was in Cozumel last Feb and dove there. It was beautiful. I used a very reputable dive shop. Blue Bubble dive shop. It's located just off the main thoroughfare and they would likely be able to get you resortafied and shallow diving in a day. It's a thought. I used to go snokeling a lot, but can vouch that it's a lot harder to snokel then to dive. Do yourself a favor and dive in Cozy. It's out of this world!
Later,
Bill

------------------
http://www.homestead.com/reefjunkie/highenergy.html

[billsreef]

Larry,
You've picked up some good advise pretty quickly. I'll echo the part about the agencies being pretty simular and the individual instructors making the difference. The gloves that BMW mentions are taboo in most of the tropical dive destinations, at least the most environmentally aware ones. The idea is look, don't touch.

The snorkeling in Cozumel is good. My wife doesn't dive so I have to take her snorkeling wherever we go, as a result good snorkeling figures into our vacation plans as much as the diving.

Blackfish
I'm glad to find someone who's been diving longer than me. I've been certified since '83 and often feel like a relic with a boatload of people that have only been diving for a couple of years. They often stare quizically at my old sherwood regulator.


------------------
Bill

If damsels grew as big as sharks, the sharks would run in fear!
My dive photos (http://hometown.aol.com/billsreef/)
ICQ 56222784

[bmw]

Hi Bill,
Gloves are taboo? Whoops--guess I am way out of the "loop" these days. Never been to the "dive destinations", at least when they were called that. Does everyone stay so far away that no skin protection on legs and arms are considered necesary? No sudden encounters with nurse sharks brushing by?
I guess outside US waters no on one is grabbing lobsters.
Actually, outside of Florida and Bahamas, and one excursion off Costa Rica along time ago, I really do not have that much experience. :)
b.

[billsreef]

bmw

When I first started gloves were considered as important as anything else, now you get yelled at if you try and wear them any of the tropical destinations. Most of the resorts offer free bouyancy control workshops to help people improve their dive skills and prevent bumping into the reef. Many people do wear dive skins to provide some thermal protection. When I travel to the tropics I go in with just a bathing suit and dive gear, 80 odd degree water feels pretty warm after my local cold water diving, high 60's in the summer.

Larry
The Great Lakes are supposed to have some great wreck diving, you might want to check into that come spring.
Saba's a great place, huge brain corals the size of boulders.




------------------
Bill

If damsels grew as big as sharks, the sharks would run in fear!
My dive photos (http://hometown.aol.com/billsreef/)
ICQ 56222784

[Larry M]

This is great :D I can tell this will be my next obsession. The fact that I can tie it in with reefing is cool too. I picked up the one book that Barnes and Noble had today about diving, called Scuba Diving by Dennis Graver. Seems like a great beginner's book, lots of detailed explanations of terms, equipment, techniques, etc. He too mentions not wearing gloves in the tropics if you are not collecting.
I'm sticking with the plan to just snorkel in Cozumel since we are only going to be there for 4 or 5 days and I don't want to spend any time on dive classes. Then once we get home I can take my time to find a good shop. I've heard from several sources the snorkeling down there is good. My wife will never dive, so I guess I will have the same dive buddie dilemma in the future, although I have a nephew who is an experienced diver. So far I'm just focusing on basic equipment, I bought a decent Mares mask and cheap snorkel, do you think I will need fins for snorkeling down there? If I can avoid lugging them down it would be nice.
Anyway, thanks for all the advice.

------------------
Larry M

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[bmw]

Hi Bill,
Simply out of curiosity, may I ask what tropical destinations are you referring to?
And I can understand the "look no touch" policy.
Thanks,
b.

[bmw]

Hey, I just read that part about wreck diving.
You wreck dive with no gloves?!
You a better man than I my friend!
B.

[billsreef]

Larry,
Glad to see your planning on taking your time on learning scuba. Panic is the #1 cause of dive accidents and deaths. Good training and practice is the key to avoiding panic in an emergency situation.

For snorkeling you want a snorkel that is comfortable in your mouth and has a large diameter bore for ease of breathing. It's suprising how much effort can go into breathing thru a tube. The fins are how you get around so I would suggest buying a good comfortable set. See if the shop will let you try them out in the pool.

I find I can pack two sets of fins, mask's, my regulator and a few other odds and ends into a gym bag that will fit into the overheads on the airplane.

bmw,
Some of the places I've been are the Cayman Islands (my favorite), Bonair, Bermuda, and Roatan. All have become very strict on no gloves and maintaining good bouyancy control. Some places actually make you go out on a shallow check out dive before allowing you to sign up for a deep dive.
For wrecks in the tropics, yes no gloves. For diving around home I do wear gloves, mostly to keep my hands warm, also I don't think I have to worry about doing damage to the barnacles :)



------------------
Bill

If damsels grew as big as sharks, the sharks would run in fear!
My dive photos (http://hometown.aol.com/billsreef/)
ICQ 56222784

[Playfair]

Larry, if you're really serious into learning to dive NOW, you can still do it in time for your trip (I did this)...

Check around to see if a classroom/pool course is starting. If not, you and your wife (and anyone else you can find) can take a "private" course. You can do a "condensed" version in 1 week.

What you will be left with is your 4 open water checkout dives, which you obviously can't do where you are in the winter. I did mine in Ft. Lauderdale. It takes 2 diving days, 2 dives each day. Then you are completely certified and can do as you please.

You have to tell your instructor that you will need a referral for your trip. You generally pay less for the classwork, and then pay the resort operator for the checkout dives.

My DIVING page: http://meltingpot.fortunecity.com/uganda/539/scuba.html

[Aquaman]

Larry,

I have been diving regularly for over 18 years and as a PADI Dive Master I can tell you all kinds of stories about students, Instructors, and Dive Masters.

You have been given some very good advice here, but I'll add by .02 worth. The most important thing to look for when considering who to instruct you in diving is the Instructor and the Dive master.

If you do not feel comfortable with either person IN ANY WAY find another school. The instructor is there to teach you the lessons and proper methods of mask clearing and what nots...
The Dive Master SHOULD BE the person that will first notice anything wrong in class. He or She will help each student with gear, dive tables, and while diving the Dive Masters responsibility is to make sure each student pays attention, and is not in any danger.

Renting is a very good option if you intend to dive through a specific school where you used the equipment in your class, Other wise I suggest looking into purchasing your equipment. Look in the paper you will find people who bought equipment last summer and used it once or twice then let it sit in the garage.

Feel free to E-Mail me with any questions you have.

Aquaman

Now you know where the handle came from.



------------------
Teach what you have known for years as if you learned it yesterday,
Teach what you learned yesterday as if you have known it all you life.
Life is short so Reef Hard

www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html (http://www.magicnet.net/~jwhite/aquamans.html)