Help ID Macropharyngodon sp. wrasse

[npaden]

I just purchased a very nice looking Macropharyngodon sp. wrasse from my LFS. The owner was impressed with how well this particular fish had shipped and it appeared relatively stress free in the LFS holding tank. I arrived on Tuesday night and I purchased it on Thursday night. I did not observe it eating but am hoping that the favorable conditions in my tank will allow it to slowly adjust to captivity. The wrasse is approx. 4" long and appears to be thick and healthy.

The tank is a 415 with approx. 325lbs of rock - only one other competitor for pods, etc. would be a six line wrasse about 1.5" long. The tank has been up for about 6 months and has quite a bit of infauna as well as 50 and 15 gallon refugiums.

Here is a pic of the wrasse immediately after I added it to my tank. It did not immediately dive for the sand but swam about unconcerned with any of my other fish checking out it's new tank.

http://padens.homestead.com/files/m_ornatus_wrasse.jpg

Here is a pic of a male M. Meleagris Wrasse from fishbase:

http://www.fishbase.org/images/Mamel_u2.jpg

Here is a pic of a M. Ornatus wrasse (not sure on sex) from fishbase:

http://www.fishbase.org/images/Maorn_u0.jpg

Any thoughts as to species. From what I understand, if it is an ornatus it's coloration should be stable and it won't change. If it is a meleagris then it would be a supermale and I would probably need to get a female to keep it's color.

Does that sound right?

Thanks, Nathan

[BrianD]

Not sure, Nathan, but it is very nice.

Lucky you :)

Brian

[hcs3]

i am so jealous! what did you pay for it? i hope it does well for you. i've been searching for one for years without any luck.

that is a male M. meleagris without a doubt. the picture from fishbase leaves a lot to be desired - but yours does not. beautiful fish.

FYI - keep an eye out for my second article in reefkeeping monthly (first edition is not realeased yet).

HTH

henry

[hcs3]

If it is a meleagris then it would be a supermale and I would probably need to get a female to keep it's color.

theoretically, yes. all macropharyngodons start as female and transform into males. i'm not sure how long, if at all, it would take a meleagris to revert back into a female. if it were me, though, i'd be looking for a few females :)

perhaps you can keep us abreast on the situation?

henry

[npaden]

I paid $40 for it. The owner was pretty proud of it as it was large and colorful and in good shape. I hadn't ever seen any leapord wrasses there before, but they had a female (already sold though) and I think they were slightly cheaper.

I'm hoping I can keep this guy happy. I got some frags today and went out to check on things at lunch and he was out and about. A little shy but not too bad. I didn't see him bury last night but he disappeared at around 9:30 and lights don't go out 'til 10:30. I used to have a dragon wrasse (in a FO) and I had to change my feeding time to before the dragon wrasse went to bed because it wouldn't change the time - it was 9 on the dot every night. Hopefully I can get him to stay up a little later as I usually feed at 10 each night and hopefully won't have to change everyone else's feeding patterns just for him. I did feed a little at lunch and he tried to follow the other fish's lead and eat out of the water column but missed a few times and didn't put forth a whole lot of effort. One of the reasons I was getting a leapord wrasse was because I have some parasitic snails on some of my clams and have heard that these guys might eat them.

Oh well, I know have about a 50/50 split between some really respected folks on whether this is a Meleagris male or an Ornatus! I can't decide!!

Thanks for the input though.

Nathan

[BrianD]

Nathan, you will have the best chance for success if you feed the tank several times a day when the leopard wrasse is out. You will find that the leopard wrasse's internal clock is amazing, and he will disappear at the same time about every night.

I feed my leopards at least twice a day, and try to feed them three times a day. My melagris are active from the morning until almost when the lights go out, while my negosensis is only active for a few hours a day. It is very important for the less-active negrosensis that I time my feedings when he is out.

I have a very active sand bed, so they do get food from the tank, but I still like to feed, feed, and feed some more. Once you plump them up and they survive the shipping trauma, you are home free.

Great, great fish. Good luck and happy wrassing :)

brian

[hcs3]

hey nathan

how is your wrasse doing?

i did some further research for you. like i said, the pictures from fishbase are extremely lacking. i would advice you to get your hands on some better photos for comparison purposes.

despite the color variations that exist on the fishbase photos, they do clearly show a difference between the two. infact, they prove me wrong :eek1:

the fish you have is infact an adult M. ornatus. you can tell this from the patch of scales that are present where the pectoral fin attaches to the body of the fish. on male M. meleagris this patch is actually above the pectoral fin, as seen in the fishbase photo.

the fish you have is adult. there is no sexual dichromatism for this species, so whether it is a female or male cannot be determined without an autopsy. in other word, it is not changing colors.

HTH

henry

[Gary Majchrzak]

I am going to post a picture of my Macropharyngodon meleagris.I purchased him as a juvenile and I believe he has reached supermale after almost 5 years in my 220 reef.This fish is active from dawn to dusk, and eats everything including coralline algae flakes scraped from the glass!Today the ice storm made my power blink on and off,and each time it went dark he buried into the DSB like he was bedding down-and when the lights came on he woke back up!Anyone into these fish or Anampses sp.wrasse please feel free to contact me....Gary
http://home.rochester.rr.com/garysreef/leopard-jpg.jpg

[hcs3]

I purchased him as a juvenile and I believe he has reached supermale after almost 5 years in my 220 reef.

hi gary

your meleagris won't become a supermale without at least one other female, though it usually takes a harem. the color of yours indicates it is an adult female.

HTH

henry

[Gary Majchrzak]

So i just need to toss another of the same species in,eh? Simplifies things a bit for me! Thanks,Henry...Gary

[hcs3]

hi gary

So i just need to toss another of the same species in,eh?

theoretically, yes. however, i doubt this will work. i've had 2 female m. meleagris in my tank for 1.5 years and neither changed. likewise, brian daniell has 2 females in this tank now for over a year, i think, with both still females.

generally these fish hang in harems and spawn as such. i think your best choice at getting a male is to add 3 or 4 more females, if the tank can support it obviously.

HTH

henry

[Gary Majchrzak]

I've done some research and this fish has tusks.All I've read indicates this means it's a male- it's just not the terminal phase male,correct???

[hcs3]

tusks :confused: are you refering to the large pharyngeal teeth?

[Gary Majchrzak]

Yes, I suppose those are the teeth.They were not present when it was immature.The sources I have seen indicate they are only present in males. I rarely see these fish offered for sale, so I guess the odds of finding 2 or 3 small ones {female} around my area is nill. If npaden sees this post- please notify us if your supermale specimen has any girlfriends yet,or, if no other fish were added to form a harem- did your fish lose any coloration? Any other reefers with 'leopards in the reef' are encouraged to post as well.

[hcs3]

hi gary

i have observed the same increase in size of the teeth on some of my fish as well. however, there have been no color changes. perhaps the male macropharyngodon meleagris only change color patterns prior to and during the mating ritual :confused: IMHO i think the enlarging teeth are a sign of sexual matuarity, and not actual sex.

i have introduced 2 m. meleagris into my 75g where each had larger canines. neither was aggressive towards each other and they acted like females. when i introduced a female m. bipartus all heck broke loose. however, when i introduced a m. geoffroyi of unknown sex and a male m. negrosensis the 3 species got along with zero problems. the three species still live in harmony today.

you can find these fish rather easily via FFE or mairne center. unfortunitely you never know what condition the fish will be in when ordered MO.

HTH

henry

[Bocaswim]

Just wanted to drop in on this thread to comment about my experience with these fascinating fish. I currently have three female leopards in my 220 reef. One has been in my care for approx eight months, the other two were sold as a pair (bagged together from the wholesaler) but have identical coloration, and have been in my tank for only the last 10 weeks. I do find they seem to stay somewhat together in a group as they scour the rocks for food. I also notice they retire to the same area of the sand at night. Their internal clocks are amazing. I am hoping to have one develop into the beautiful male fish that Gary posted. Even if it takes five years.

I have had an interesting experience with the eating habits of mine. I have read that they need a substantial pod population to survive well in captivity. Oddly enough, although I'm sure there are some pods, my mandarin is quite fat, I have witnessed a dissapearance of any nuisance aiptasia with the addition of these fish. I also feed a variety of other foods, including vitamin enriched broccoli for a sailfin with HLLE, the leopards love the broccoli. I was wondering if any of you have witnessed similar feeding habits or aiptasia control.

One last comment, I am wondering if they are controlling flatworms in the tank as well. I sold some leftover rock to a local reefer (newreeflady) and she had a terrible outbreak of flatworms shortly therafter in her tank. I have never seen a single flatworm. Honest.

Gary- Any luck locating another leopard?

Npaden-Have you decided which species of wrasse you have?

I have been trying for awhile to get them to pose for a pic. Please forgive the quality of the attached photo, they are very fast. They are all out on this side of the tank for lunch.

[Gary Majchrzak]

My leopard LOVES broccoli too! Even eats coralline algae scraped from the glass!. And I originally put him in to tackle my flatworm population. No luck in finding playmates,though. Your leopards are NICE! Same species I have! Where did you aquire these, may I ask? :confused:

[Bocaswim]

Hi Gary,

Although they do not get them too often, I acquired them from my LFS (Barrier Reef) for $8.99 each. I try to stop in periodically when they come back from the wholesaler (Miami). These last two were not even out of the box yet. I am planning to go in this weekend with Newreeflady to see if they have any more. She is still fighting a terrible flatworm outbreak. I believe this fish may be seasonal. Will let you know if I find any down here.

[Gary Majchrzak]

$8.99 EACH ???!!!! :spin2:

[Bocaswim]

Yes $8.99. That's because these last two were a little bigger. The first one was $6.99.

[Gary Majchrzak]

:lolspin: :love1: :spin2: Time to get plane tickets to the sunshine state!

[hcs3]

boca

i've seen my meleagris eat coraline on ocassion, and they regularly consume nori. i've never witness any of my other species engaging in this behavior. i have never fed brocolli.

my flatworm population disappeared after the introduction of my first leopard.

regarding the price of yours, how good of a friend is this LFS of yours? does he owe you any favors? if not i'd be very interested in the wholesale cost of this animal. if mark ups are consistant, your LFS paid 2 - $3 for this fish. in the midwest leopards are $22 WHOLESALE. this translates into a fish around $50 with a very low mark up. i have paid $100 for one of my meleagris in the past.

henry

[Bocaswim]

Hello Henry,

One of the main reasons I have three of these beauties is because they are such an inexpensive fish. I originally bought two, one made it unfortunately the other did not. WHen I recently upgraded to the larger tank, the LFS acquired the larger two, based on the relatively low cost, I bought them both.

I do not know the LFS owner at all, I am however on the 10% discount club, the above price is before the discount.;) I commented to another reefer recently that sometimes I feel like I am singlehandedly putting the LFS owner's kid through college. But that's another story.:D

I will be going there this weekend, so I will verify the current price.

Here's another photo showing the two larger leopards. It looks like the one in the backgroung has more of the greenish/blue coloration, but that may just be the lighting.

[Bocaswim]

This is the smaller of the three.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I'll trade 'ya some corals for a couple of those leopard 'cubs'! See my website! Nice connection you got, Bocaswim! ;)

[Bocaswim]

Gary,

I have seen your website. You have some beautiful corals. I could definately use some more frags.

Let me see what the LFS has available. I have a 55gal tank set up with a dsb and a purple tang which was banished for bad behavior. I would like to try adding a few leopards to that tank and give them a few weeks to acclimate. If all goes well then we can discuss shipping and an appropriate trade. They are hard to catch once acclimated, the just bury themselves. But well see how it goes. Of course I will ship them with plenty of sand.

I may go by the LFS later today, I will definitely let you know.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks Gayle- my wrasse saw this thread from across the room! :inlove: And my wife informed me the only plane tickets we are purchasing are to see her mom. :( If you could help us poor guys out we'd appreciate it !!! :D

[hcs3]

boca

can you give me the name and phone # of the store your buying these at? i'd like to call him and see if we can do business.

thanks
henry

[Bocaswim]

Henry,

I tried to send you a PM with their phone #. Message says your mailbox is full.

To the best of my knowledge, they do not do any mail order. I have seen them on the Aquacon site in that similar price range, but that place can be hit or miss. I am serious about acquiring a few more and trading them for frags once they have acclimated.

[Bocaswim]

Hi Gary et al,

Apparently, the trio of leopard wrasses which I own are the garden variety Indo-Pacific leopard Wrasse(M. meleagris). These retail in my area in the $7-10 price range.

Today I picked up two African Leopards at my LFS for $29.99 each supposedly these are much rarer but an otherwise similar species. I will try and get a more positive ID. Receipt says African Leopard Wrasse. But that means nothing. I will also try and post a pic once they have acclimated. They are nowhere to be seen right now. They immediately hit the dirt(sand) after being placed in my tank. One was eating live brine at the store the other was interested, but a little swollen. We'll see how they make out.

Gary I think these might be the same type as yours, they have a different color pattern than my other leopards, more teal. I believe both are females. The closest match I can find:
http://www.fishbase.org/Photos/PicturesSummary.cfm?ID=13137&what=species
This link shows the male and female about halfway down the page.
http://richardfield.freeservers.com/newdir/wrasses.htm

[Gary Majchrzak]

Gayle, thanks for posting those links and your interest in leopard wrasses. I still think my fish is a M. meleagris, although it does look different from any photo of one that I've seen. Even the ones that pop up{very rarely} at the LFS where I got mine all look different. I realize the males,females,and immature fish all have different coloration, but my fish is a different body shape than those others. My fish is slimmer.I think you will agree this is a VERY interesting fish family! Keep me posted on the new additions,please...... thanks,Gary

[EdKruzel]

I purchased a M. meleagris two weeks ago. My friend at the LFS said he shipped hard and had not eaten.
They come in so few times a year I had to take the chance.

I placed him in my reef and watched as he swam around checking out his new surroundings. One of only six fish in a 210gal.

After a few laps in the tank, he disappeared into the rock work.
Well after two weeks I wrote him off as gone.

Tonight I added a purple and yellow Lemnalia coral to the tank and after dinner, entered the room to observe my coral. There was my Leopard Wrasse swimming around the new addition checking it out.

I do love this hobby!

[npaden]

I've had a few inquires as to how my wrasse is doing (I've pretty much decided on M. Ornatus as the species) and I thought I would update everyone.

The wrasse is a PIG. It eats anything that hits the water column, gets in there and mixes it up with the chromis shoal and the anthias. Not very shy at all. Really nothing picks on it and it doesn't pick on anything except occassionally will mess with my flame hawk (just a quick peck and then runs).

I know 3 months is a short time in this hobby, but it seems like he is going to fit in well!

FWIW, Nathan

[hcs3]

nathan

sounds like yours is going to do well. any that have lived for me more than 1 month have done very well.

mind if i use your photo in a future issue of [rk]?

henry

[npaden]

That would be fine Henry, I think I could scrounge up a bigger one if you want. I need to try to take some more pics of it as the coloration seems to have changed a little bit. A little more greenish tint than the bright blue in that first picture. I think the brighter colors might have been from stress as that picture was taken the day I introduced it to the tank. Also there is a yellow tip on the front of it's dorsal fin now.

FWIW, Nathan

[Ironreef]

manderines and lepards compatable? or are they know not to be?

[Bocaswim]

I have a large mandarin in with the three leopards. I was initially concerned that they would compete for food, but no problems. I have a feeling one species eats a diffedrent kind of pod than the other. The leopards will eat just about anything once acclimated.

[Ironreef]

Thanks my manderine will eat anything when hungry. When I bought it I had them feed it brineshrimp it ate it. then a few days later watched it eat frozon mysis shrimp in the q tank. But now in the main I never see it eat anything.So I know it will eat processed and live brine if hungy??. Funny thing when I bought it they sold it as a yellow manderine. I knew better but it ate. Which I never saw. It became a nice bright green,fat spotted psycho manderine in @2mo. Just wanna make sure they don't fight. I know some fish fight no matter what. Thanks