group buys versus spot trading and selling

[ghostbear29]

OK, I see that many of us are into propogating frags for sale and trades. I for one do not mind as long as the trade is equal and fair or the price is comparable. The problem that I have is getting pms about..."ohhh frag that xenia and give me some!" "Whatcha gonna do with those red zoos"...etc, etc. I wouldn't mind trading but they end up sending or giving me nasty brown bland crap! Hardly I call fair...Then, if I call the guy on it, I am not being respectful. What a load of crap! So I spend my money at local LFS' stock at a higher price. Then I get to take care of the specimen...dosing, lighting, feeding etc.. But know I am supposed to just give give give? I never got anything when I started this, matter of fact I even got replies the same as this one. The sad fact is that when we trade, we kill our own industry. Capitalism does not support freebies....Look at our social security if you want proof. But I digress. When we end up closing the local lfs down we see prices sky rocket elsewhere. Have you all seen the price of supposed "eagle eye zoos" on the web.. Give me a break.
So what do I propose from our club? I propose we get together during the meeting and discuss a group buy of a specimen that is of high quality and we all foot the cost. We frag and grow our own specimens...Best of both worlds. WE can decide on sps, lps or softies during the meeting and see who would go in on it. That makes for cheap frags for everyone and does not crash the business. I am open to comments or ideas so we can come to a viable solution.

[ghostbear29]

A side note: an earlier post of mine kinda ticked off rich. I was heated from earlier and kinda blew him up! sorry!:) I hope this post explains the problems I am seeing and we can come together with a good solution. In saying that, I have no disregard for peoples feelings or thoughts as long as we keep this to constructive critisism. Thanks.
jeff


ps. Rich, truley sorry earlier, buds?

[ffjpayne]

jeff i see where you are coming from i have spent a least a couple thousand in my 29 gallon tank and no one gave me anything when i started but now i have a crap load of star polyps and purple shrooms and would like to trade for frags of equal price, i agree we need to keep the local lfs with business and zach and hector are great quys i just gave hector a protein skimmer, and i ended up buying a calm 'great calm by the way it was 25 bucks' any way the only reason i would like to trade a little is cause im short on cash my wifes pregnet and i still want more corals, so i wouldnt rip anyone off with crappy corals and expect high dollor ones, so and another note what are you going to do with those red zoos? jason

[OasisTF]

It is my opinion that it is better for everyone if you all just pitch in and buy a colony then Frag it out.....Here is the thought:


12 people pitch in for 10.00 = 120.00

with that the club can purchase a large colony of ZOO'S (cost 120.00)
Then that can be fragged into lets just say 20 pieces each club member that contributes gets one piece....THEN you have 8 left over that can be sold at 15.00 - 20.00 Frag (NOT TRADED) lets low park this at 15.00 X 8 that's 120.00 the club uses that money to buy another large colony, Turns into a great circle.

Now lets see the other point of view TRADING

Joe wants a ppe zoo that Tommy has and wants to trade a yellow polyps Frag. Trade goes through now Joe has ppe and he is propping them and selling them for 50.00 a Frag and he wont trade, because Joe wants something in equal value.
Is that fair? Who determines value? Who is getting the better end of that deal? Should trading be done for item not value?

Another scenario Tommy traded with Frankie, 1 day later Frankies frags dies wants another Frag. Do you ask for water test? Is it fair? Then an arguments happen and Frankie stops going to the club and starts bad mouthing it.

Another scenario Tommy has ppe and has been trading for items and frags to keep the cost of the hobby down. 6 months later no one want his PPE because the market was flooded and anyone in town can now get PPE from anybody because of the frags that Tommy trade have now been fragged themselves. SO no one wants Tommy ppe anymore because another guy is selling them for 3.00 a Frag. Guess who supplied the Frag to that guy?


NOW if Tommy would have sold his Frag for 50.00ea instead of trading, Would this had happen? BASIC ECONOMICS

I understand they are lots of people that trade and are happy and have been pleased But I hear more people get upset than people that are happy. Isn't the reason for trading to support the high cost of this hobby? Isn't that causing an opposite effect?

WHO KNOWS but that just my opinion.

Hector
[violation]

[hancockrich]

ghost,its all water under the bridge..im sorry for being short too...as far as my opinion, well here it is...i started way to fast for my own good..but then i met Ed and he helped me out...i think doing the group buy would be great..and you can count me in on it...its just that im in the army and im not even going to get in to how much i get paid...so i dont get stuff from the lfs every week...and when i do its the cheapest thing i can find...ya know...there have been a few people that have helped me out...a zoo here and there, but for the most part my family has gotten everything in the tank...i do want to do some trades once i get more stock.but for now all i can do is buy stuff from people.. all i can do is hope they dont rip me off....plus if it cost to much the wife wont let me get it...lol...well i dont know if i made any sence or not...so ill talk to yall later...rich

[owsi]

Let me start out by saying I only represent myself in what I am about to say. I was a new guy in many forms of Salt water, Fish, Mushrooms, Softies and now SPS, I paid fair price, and not so fair prices for what I have. I believe in getting people started in the hobby so they can enjoy it. Hector some of the people I give frags to will someday buy from you and all the other stores in town. Whats wrong with giving some one a few Digi's and Caps to get them started? Some will pay you back later when they get a LE and think back, some will not, thats life. As far as the Co-Op purchase goes, read the Phoenix PROP threads, theve been doing it for awhile now and it was a very bumpy road for some time. Don't want to get a rant thread going, but why should I feel guilty about giving a few frags away. I am not telling you how to run you business, don't tell me how to further my hobby. John

[OasisTF]

Never said GIVING is wrong....TRADING is BUMPY.....MY personal opinion is better to GIVE FOR FREE or SELL,,,No one is telling you how to further your hobby. Don't read to much into it. You learn from the mistakes of the other clubs. My opinion is the group buys are better. It does not matter what store you get them from.

Hector
[violation]

[OasisTF]

another thing I will support what ever the majority of the club agrees to.

Hector
[violation]

[ffjpayne]

i was in at hectors store today and he showed me how easy it was to frag some zoos and i think if we got like 12 people to buy one of the rock of zoos that he has for 120 we each pay 10 bucks and can get a good size frag and sell some of them so im in if we can get enough people to do it also

[OasisTF]

Another Idea of what we can do ( STORE EMPLOYEES and OWNERS EXCLUDED ) Is all get together and auction the frags instead of trading them. In dollar increments....What do you guys think of that?

Hector
[violation]

[ghostbear29]

wow, great replys! And yes zoos are very easy. Ever tried propping shrooms? cut into small pieces and distribute through out tank! I guess we just have to be careful when we expect trading to take place as well just getting something as a gift. I have no qualms with that. Unfortunately, I feel that my tank is too virgin to begin "giving" away stuff. Though, I will have xenia explosion very soon. I can just feel it! OWSI is right in helping start the hobby, though no one did it for me, let alone help and educate me. I actually pay a college to do what alot have gotten for free. I guess the point to having this reefkeepers club is to make it more accessible and responsible at the same time. I can embrace helping more that hurting anyone anytime. Also, I feel we can become more responsible as well as successful reefkeepers in total. Good points by all. Keep em coming!

[OasisTF]

and not telling anyone how to futher their hobby,,,,I thought that was the point of the CLUB - helping people further the hobby.

Hector
[violation]

[ffjpayne]

so can we get a count on some people to do a group buy on some zoos or something like that. im in

[hancockrich]

what color are the zoo's??? i might get in on it...thz...rich

[Tucson_Phish]

I would suggest if we buy a colony that we buy the rarest piece we can get..something that none of use has.. (which for me is almost anything) in that way we bring something new to SE arizona

Count me in I would be happy to pay 30.00

[Roll221]

I am going to stay out of this one, I just have to say, starting a little version of the Phoenix Prop Club would be a very very good idea. I have went once and had a very good time. There was a huge variety of corals, SPS...zoos...LPS everything including someone selling snails!

If the group does decide to buy an SPS colony I will be more then willing offer my fragging services. I just rinsed of my fragging shears an hour ago it is read to go when or if needed.

Ed

[ghostbear29]

Yeah, I say we just frag eds whole tank and be happy about it.:) j/k

I agree with tom, Some new variety or color morph would be the bees knees! <----corny saying!


jeff

[kscrimshaw]

Would love to get in on this. Are we talking about getting something from an LFS or online?

[ghostbear29]

we dunno. we started this as a debate and ended up as an idea for the club. We will probably throw some ideas at the meeting.

[ffjpayne]

i think lfs just cause hector brought up the idea and i thought this is why we would do a group buy instead of trades so our lfs can get stay in business and keep the prices low

[kscrimshaw]

Sounds good to me. I am all for supporting our lfs. That way you can see up front what you're getting.

[ghostbear29]

who likes the acans? maybe a goniopora? like owsi said, if we do it lets do it big. Ofcourse I am running a nano and that IS NOT big but who cares? What is your idea of big for trades. If someone brings up brown shrooms, I will slap them!

[Satori]

Sorry, had to... :-)

[ghostbear29]

thats it MSM ///slap////Now take that! he he!
We can discuss this more during the meeting. If some of you have books or photos of stuff you would like to discuss or share with the rest of us, bring it along with you. We can get some ideas and direction for possible group deals. great job guys!

[Satori]

I won't be here for this one, but it sounds like a great idea. If you guys do it again in June, I'm in. Or, maybe Ed can take care of my frag until I get back? Ed??

[cerreta]

I too would be interested in pitching in for a frag of zoos. Last week I saw a rare piece of blue zoos at an LFS in Mesa. It cost $120.00 for about 30 polyps. Can anyone verify if this is indeed a rare zoo? Hector, do you have the blues? Pun intended.
Cheers,
Scott

[owsi]

Some one in Tucson has pure Blue Zoos, about 50, bought at local LFS

[hancockrich]

has anyone said what we are going to do...for a group buy...sps or zoos???....im in for zoos...just let me know....talk to ya soon...rich

[OasisTF]

[violation]

[Tucson_Phish]

Do we know how many of us are in on a purchase and what we want? maybe if the group is large enough and our interest are split we can purchase two!

now that thru a frag in the process heheheh

[cerreta]

Tom's one, I'm two, who else is in?

[kscrimshaw]

I'm in if we do zoos. Don't think my VHO lighting and lack of experience could handle any SPS.

[ffjpayne]

im 4

[hancockrich]

im in for anything but sps...rich

[Tucson_Phish]

Thats 5 do I hear a 6.......

[Tucson_Phish]

I'm in for Zoo's also

[IntegraAZ]

Did this thread die? I would be all in for this especially if we could get something like this.

http://aquaticisland.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=97

http://stores.ebay.com/Platinum-Reefs

[hancockrich]

sweet zoos in the pic above...im wondering if this idea has died. if people are still in can someone let me know...thz..rich

[cerreta]

Yes, for sure. I will start a new link to get interest and ideas. I am going on bcakpacking trip at the end of month. I will try to coordinate the purchase around the time I return. Maybe we can have a meeting when the corals arrive to divide them out.

[phlipper84]

Just went to Phoenix for their frag auction and it was a great success for everyone involved. At least it seemed that way to me. Group buys are fine, however Paying some of these rare prices with the idea of fragging them and making money on them is fairly tough. Just look at these people going crazy with the Lords and Acans. The prices are through the roof. I was in a store in Phoenix and they had a colony for 1500 dollars. What is weird is these seem to be one of the faster propogating corals. Who knows. My idea would be to agree on something that is rare to this area, and that most everyone wants(you will never get a 100% consensus IMO) and bring it in grow it out and then everyone gets their cutting or something like that. If you have success raising it then maybe you run local auctions, give others a crack at it and raise money for propogating costs. In Phoenix they say they frag 3 times and then sell the colony. figure by the time they have fragged 3 times the market is flooded.

[phlipper84]

I would be in but mostly if the idea is to raise out what we buy. I am not really too excited about the idea of another micro rock with 5 polyps on it. They get lost in my tank too easily. I have tried adding frags and about a 3rd have been moved my someone besides me! Figure that for what i spent I could have gotten 1 larger piece that I could actually enjoy right now! BTW Hector, what do you have in stock now in terms of polyps on rocks of at least 3 inches in diamater?

[phlipper84]

zoos that is!

[cerreta]

Phlipper, I just started a new link. Please move you comments over to that one. They are good ideas, let's see what others think about it.

My intentions for this purchase are for people to buy decent frags for cheap, so they can grow over time.

I like the idea of getting larger specimens and dividing, however I do not have the skill or tank available. Maybe someone else can. Anyone?