The Patriot

[Dave]

This is next on my list. I did see The Perfect Storm last night it was good.
My wife also loved it.

[signu459]

I went and saw the patriot last light I have to say it is the best movie I have sen since Saving Private Ryan. It is not historically accurate but still a great movie. It really gave me a sence of what our forefathers sacrificed for us to be here today. Clearly without their sacfrifice we would not have many of the freedoms and independance that we as Americans cherish. As is well laid out in Fishwifes post the men and women who fought in the revolutionary war put it all on the line for freedom and liberty. The same freedom and liberty that we enjoy today with so much disregard. It is these men and womens sacfifices that give us the chance to have a reef aquarium or a nice car and house. The next time I complain about some silly fish dying or having to go to work I will definitely remind myself of what true sacrifice is and that there are many throughout the world who don't enjoy what I do.

We need to guard our freedoms and liberty like a lion with cubs. Never letting anyone infringe apon it, even our own government.

[Fishwife]

We just saw The Patriot today. It was wonderful! My heart was literally pounding during the last 1/2 hour of the movie. Even though it wasn't a true story I think it's a pretty safe bet that it's pretty close to what happened to many of the militia men, regular army enlistees and their families during that dreadful period. It really hit the mark opening this weekend. The theatre was packed and no one moved for the entire 3 hours. The sacrifices those people made were staggering - so many lost absolutely everything.

Very moving - I plan on seeing it again, though like my daughter said, it's not a movie you can see again right away - it's draining. The scene in the church will stay with me for a long, long time.

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Fishwife

Ouch, what's that burning sensation in my finger tips? Is it nematocysts? Is it electricity? NOOO! It's...PAPERCUTS!!!

[Steve Richardson]

Ya know...

I just saw The Patriot last week too.

Sort of felt like a weak second attempt at another 'Braveheart'. (Which I thought was spectacular)

You know... the peasants cheering as Mell speeds by on his horse... the stark and gory look at battle rage... The unwilling pacifist at heart driven beyond principle to mighty deads by the evil empire and its minions. The lovestory of course in the background.

True, good story. This movie is was just following the formula though it seems. Not a speck of it was unpredictable.

shrug. Good for a rental. Dont waste time at the movies on this one.

-S

[signu459]

Steve,

are you sure you saw the right movie??? By chance did you stumble into Me myself and Irene? :D :D

Where is your patriotism? Maybe it was a second to Braveheart, but this has nothing to do with Braveheart. It has to do with the founding of our great country and the sacrifices made to do so. Sacrifices very few people today would make.

[signu459]

In light of my above comments i felt like this would be a good read...long but good. And the base for all the similar emails that are going around today.


"Our lives, our fortunes, our sacred honor"
by Rush H. Limbaugh, Jr.

It was a glorious morning. The sun was shining and the wind was from the southeast. Up especially early, a tall bony, redheaded young Virginian found time to buy a new thermometer, for which he paid three pounds, fifteen shillings. He also bought gloves for Martha, his wife, who has ill at home.
Thomas Jefferson arrived early at the statehouse. The temperature was 72.5 degrees and the horseflies weren't nearly so bad at that hour. It was a lovely room, very large, with gleaming white walls. The chairs were comfortable. Facing the single door were two brass fireplaces, but they would not be used today.

The moment the door was shut, and it was always kept locked, the room became an oven. The tall windows were shut, so that loud quarreling voices could not be heard by passersby. Small openings atop the windows allowed a slight stir of air, and also a large number of horseflies. Jefferson records that "the horseflies were dexterous in finding necks, and the silk of stocking was nothing to them." All discussion was punctuated by the slap of hands on necks.
On the wall at the back, facing the President's desk, was a panoply-consisting of a drum, swords, and banners seized from Fort Ticonderoga the previous year. Ethan Allen and Benedict Arnold had captured the place, shouting that they were taking it "in the name of the Great Jehovah and the Continental Congress!"

Now Congress got to work, promptly taking up an emergency measure about which there was discussion but no dissention. "Resolved: That an application be made to the Committee of Safety of Pennsylvania for a supply of flints for the troops at New York."
Then Congress transformed itself into a committee of the whole. The Declaration of Independence was read aloud once more, and debate resumed. Though Jefferson was the best writer of all of them, he had been somewhat verbose. Congress hacked the excess away. They did a good job, as a side-by-side comparison of the rough draft and the final text shows. They cut the phrase "by a self-assumed power." "Climb" was replaced by "must read," then "must" was eliminated, then the whole sentence, and soon the whole paragraph was cut. Jefferson groaned as they continued what he later called "their depredations." "Inherent and inalienable rights" came out "certain unalienable rights," and to this day no one knows who suggested the elegant change.

A total of 86 alterations were made. Almost 500 words were eliminated, leaving 1,337. At last, after three days of wrangling, the document was put to a vote.
Here in this hall Patrick Henry had once thundered: " I am no longer a Virginian, Sir, but an American." But today the loud, sometimes bitter argument stilled, and without fanfare the vote was taken from north to south by colonies, as was the custom. On July 4, 1776, the Declaration of Independence was adopted.

There were no trumpets blown. No one stood on his chair and cheered. The afternoon was waning and Congress had no thought of delaying the full calendar of routine business on its hands. For several hours they worked on many other problems before adjourning for the day.

Much To Lose

What kind of men were the 56 signers who adopted the Declaration of Independence and who, by their signing, committed an act of treason against the crown? To each of you the names Franklin, Adams, Hancock, and Jefferson are almost as familiar as household words. Most of us, however, know nothing of the other signers. Who were they? What happened to them?

I imagine that many of you are somewhat surprised at the names not there: George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry. All were elsewhere.
Ben Franklin was the only really old man. Eighteen were under 40; three were in their 20s. Of the 56 almost half -24- were judges and lawyers. Eleven were merchants, 9 were landowners and farmers, and the remaining 12 were doctors, ministers, and politicians.
With only a few exceptions, such as Samuel Adams of Massachusetts, these were men of substantial property. All but two had families. The vast majority were men of education and standing in their communities. They had economic security as few men had in the 18th century.

Each had more to lose from revolution than he had to gain by it. John Hancock, one of the richest men in America, already had a price of 500 pounds on his head. He signed in enormous letters so "that his Majesty could now read his name without glasses and could now double the reward." Ben Franklin wryly noted: "Indeed we must all hang together, otherwise we shall most assuredly hang separately." Fat Benjamin Harrison of Virginia told tiny Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts: "With me it will all be over in a minute, but you , you will be dancing on air an hour after I am gone.

These men knew what they risked. The penalty for treason was death by hanging. And remember: a great British fleet was already at anchor in New York Harbor.
They were sober men. There were no dreamy-eyed intellectuals or draft card burners here. They were far from hot-eyed fanatics, yammering for an explosion. They simply asked for the status quo. It was change they resisted. It was equality with the mother country they desired. It was taxation with representation they sought. They were all conservatives, yet they rebelled.

It was principle, not property, that had brought these men to Philadelphia. Two of them became presidents of the United States. Seven of them became state governors. One died in office as vice president of the United States. Several would go on to be U.S. Senators. One, the richest man in America, in 1828 founded the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. One, a delegate from Philadelphia, was the only real poet, musician and philosopher of the signers (it was he, Francis Hopkinson - not Betsy Ross who designed the United States flag).
Richard Henry Lee, A delegate from Virginia, had introduced the resolution to adopt the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. He was prophetic in his concluding remarks:
"Why then sir, why do we longer delay? Why still deliberate? Let this happy day give birth to an American Republic. Let her arise not to devastate and to conquer but to reestablish the reign of peace and law. The eyes of Europe are fixed upon us. She demands of us a living example of freedom that may exhibit a contrast in the felicity of the citizen to the ever increasing tyranny which desolates her polluted shores. She invites us to prepare an asylum where the unhappy may find solace, and the persecuted repost. If we are not this day wanting in our duty, the names of the American Legislatures of 1776 will be placed by posterity at the side of all of those whose memory has been and ever will be dear to virtuous men and good citizens."

Though the resolution was formally adopted July 4, it was not until July 8 that two of the states authorized their delegates to sign, and it was not until August 2 that the signers met at Philadelphia to actually put their names to the Declaration.

William Ellery, delegate from Rhode Island, was curious to see the signers' faces as they committed this supreme act of personal courage. He saw some men sign quickly, "but in no face was he able to discern real fear." Stephan Hopkins, Ellery's colleague from Rhode Island, was a man past 60. As he signed with a shaking pen, he declared: "My hand trembles, but my heart does not."

"Most glorious service"

Even before the list was published, the British marked down every member of Congress suspected of having put his name to treason. All of them became the objects of vicious manhunts. Some were taken. Some, like Jefferson, had narrow escapes. All who had property or families near British strongholds suffered.

- Francis Lewis, New York delegate saw his home plundered and his estates in what is now Harlem, completely destroyed by British soldie

[reg]

[Steve Richardson]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by signu459:
Steve,

... Where is your patriotism? ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

:rolleyes:

Oh pleeeeeeease. :D We know the story (or at least, we *should* know the story ;) ) If this movie is needed for you to get a superficial sense of the sacrafices and circumstances of the times, and feel a sense of patriotism, by all means see it. See it twice.

:)

Its more interesting, trust me, than that movie. Rush 'pantload' Limbaugh spews out some oft-cited (and correct, might I add)comments, but again, its much more complicated than the pretty and honorable picture he paints - including the incredible fact that these white, landholding slaveowners put forward the premise the all men are created equal. laugh.

Having said that, the Declaration of Independence is perhaps one of the most important documents in modern times. Quite remarkable, actually.

-Steve

[signu459]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Steve Richardson:
........
Its more interesting, trust me, than that movie. Rush 'pantload' Limbaugh spews out some oft-cited (and correct, might I add)comments, but again, its much more complicated than the pretty and honorable picture he paints - including the incredible fact that these white, landholding slaveowners put forward the premise the all men are created equal. laugh.

Having said that, the Declaration of Independence is perhaps one of the most important documents in modern times. Quite remarkable, actually.

-Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Steve,

If in fact you listened to Rush on a frequent basis you would know that some of your comments are inaccurate.

1. If you listend freqeuntly you would know that Limbaugh has lost a huge amount of weight. Therefor you would be hard pressed to call him "pantload".

2 The author of the above speech is in fact Rush Limbaugh the Radio talk show hosts deceased father, hence Rush Limbaguh Jr. The comments at the bottom of the speech are from Rush limbaugh the talk show host. So the words in above speech are Rush's fathers and therefore you would be hard pressed to say "Limbaugh spews out some oft-cited....Comments" since more than likely the above speech is the only thing you have read or heard from Rush Limbaugh Jr.

3. Limbaugh has been rated to be 98.9% accutrate by groups that monitor accuracy in broadcasting. Limbaugh also proved to correct nearly all of his mistakes once they were realized.

Limbaugh spent a huge amount of time around Independence day talking about his fathers speech. In additon he brought up his weight loss at least twice this week alone.


Yes the Declaration of Independence is one of the most important documents in history not just modern times. IMO second only to the Bible. what is truley amazing about the Declaration is that the writers had the foresite to include such sentences as "all men are created equal" considering the atmosphere and times they wrote it in.


[This message has been edited by signu459 (edited 07-14-2000).]

[Larry M]

I think maybe by "pantload" Steve meant he was full of BS. :) At least, that's what it would've meant had I said it. :)

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Larry M

Visit Reef Stores.com (http://63.75.34.139/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?) The liaison between hobbyists and on-line retailers.

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[Larry M]

BTW, if I see one more Mel Gibson movie with him in flappy sleeves, slaying the enemy and talking in a phony accent, I'm gonna puke. :eek: I walked out of Braveheart and I ain't even walking into this one.

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Larry M

Visit Reef Stores.com (http://63.75.34.139/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi?) The liaison between hobbyists and on-line retailers.

See my tanks at Northern Reef (http://www.reefcentral.com/northernreef/index.htm)

[Frisco]

Don't tell me that any of you actually expect substance from a movie?

All I have to say is... I don't see how Mel Gibson has time to even appear in a movie with all the time he seems to spend in the sack... Talk about a baby factory!

[Q-ball]

Kinda off the direction this thread has gone, but I found this pretty funny...On the radio this morning, I heard a news article stating that British citizens (or maybe it was British Americans? not sure, still funny though) are asking for the movie company that filmed The Patriot for an apology for the way the British troops were portrayed in the movie! LOL!!! The DJ I was listening too had a British listener call in (she didn't seem to be too offended by the movie) and he apologized to her on behalf of the 13 colonies of the US (I know it wasn't the US back then) for the 13 colonies of the US having whooped the tar out of them way back then! LOL!!! No offense to any British posters here, just thought the whole thing was humorous. Speaking of which, and I ask this with mostly seriousness but I've wondered about it for a while... Do the British still hold our seperating from them against us? :D

Q!!!

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Got tired of the last signature, and haven't
come up with a new one yet, so go read something else
=;o)~

[Steve Richardson]

Signu -

whooooeeee. :p I didnt know I'd tick you off by slipping a comment like 'pantload' into there. Really, it has nothing to do with his physical appearance, but with the girth of his pious, pompous, over articulated talkshow drivel. JMO, so please, kind sir... if you are going to quote 'Rush Statistics' at me, I sincerely and humbly beg your gracious pardon if I run away screaming. :)

No worries. This isnt about the Rusher.

You and I agree about quality of the document (though I see you upped me to '2nd only to the bible' :rolleyes: which is fine if you like... from a western point of view. I wouldnt say the Bible is any more or less important than the Qur'an, I-Ching, Bhagavad-Gita, Torah, Kojiki, etc, etc... ;) )

just pointing out a perceived cheesy movie, not dissing the the good ol' U-S-of-A.

:D

-Steve

p.s. - No, it wasnt that "the writers had the foresite (sic) to include such sentences as 'all men are created equal'". When they said men, they meant white males. Bear in mind that later generations are the ones that saw fit to include everyone in that definition. Our unique form of government, based on democracy and the separation of powers... allows for us to change, for the better (perhaps against public opinion) loose and colloquial definitions such as "men", "militia", and "Common Good".

babling as always... -S

[This message has been edited by Steve Richardson (edited 07-14-2000).]

[shellisland]

Yes, no offense movie goers, but from what I can tell, every major smash hit is a huge waste of dough on some cheeseball movie that purposely tugs on every single human 'heartstring' to elicit a reaction. But hey, I would love to see Gladiator if only to see Russell Crowe half naked :D
But, I mean, who wouldnt!! ;)

Yeah, all men are created equal...unless you aren't white semi wealthy male land owners...But I'll stop there!


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I thought I wanted a career, turns out I just wanted the paychecks

[horge]

Ah well, I didn't get to see Mel and co. trashing Cornwallis' boys. I'll have to catch it in a few weeks when it finally shows here in Manila. The one movie I did get to endure there was...

Scary Movie.
(don't ask why. please.)

I'm hard put describing that celluloid endeavor. But watching it DID bear directly on my decision to fly home right away :D Still, it was good for ekeing out the requisite quantity of laughter, disgust and moviegoer dollars.

With fare like that for comparison, Steve, even you have to appreciate The Patriot. And yes, like you I can appreciate an effort and YET still clamor for far far better, hehe.

[Afishianado]

I saw the patriot too. I know alot of people liked it and I won't say it was a bad movie but I can sum it up like this....Braveheart circa 1776. And maybe a dash of Rob roy too. So if you have seen Braveheart (which was awesome) and Rob Roy then you have seen the Patriot.

Chris