Ca 474ppm,dKH 22.34,pH 8.3,salinity 1.024,temp 76*f.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Some may find this hard to believe,but in 8 years I never tested my reefs parameters.Before you laugh, check out what it looks like on my website.
I do monitor temp.& salinity, and I think I bought a Ca test 7 years ago,but that's it. I look at the inhabitants for visual clues as to what is going on.Recently some friends in the Upstate Reef Society were kind enough to come over and help me establish a website and TEST MY WATER.The results:
Ca 474ppm,dKH22.34,pH 8.3 @midday,salinity 1.024,temp 76*f.Before I make adjustments,what are YOUR suggestions,as I do not want to 'fix what is not broke!'I've grown my table Acro for close to 7 years and I am worried it may be adjusted to my unusually high alkalinity.The alk. test was performed twice,with the LaMotte brand.Are there any reports of high alk. being detrimental in closed systems?Even when Ca is optimal? I use daily kalkwasser additions,and Aragamight for buffer.I have reduced use of both in the few days after the tests.Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Gary:

I agree that the alkalinity looks very high.

Personally, I'm quite surprised that you can keep that combination of pH, alkalinity, and calcium in solution. Especially in a limewater tank.

Unless.....you have a lot of borate in the water. Do you use Seachem salt? I know this is starting to sound to frequent board readers like a broken record, but the borate in that salt mix really confuses alkalinity interpretations.

I assume that you guys are pretty confident in the alkalinity measurement?

We had a long thread a while ago about the advantages and disadvantages of high alkalinity:

http://www.reefcentral.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=47972



Actually, the only things that I monitor on my tank with any regularity are pH, salinity, and temperature. I know from experience that a limewater tank like mine will be OK in terms of calcium and alkalinity if the pH is in an appropriate range (8.2 to 8.4).

If I had your readings, and believed them all to be true, I'd slow on the limewater a bit, and use calcium chloride as a supplement until the alkalinity came down.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks for your suggestions.I found it difficult to believe,also.Especially because in the sump,where the additives are even more concentrated, I've never seen precip.I have already ordered the CaCl{turbo calcium}and reduced drip mix ratios of kalk & Aragamight.I have never used Seachem salt.And yes,we all believe the test results- as the alk. test has been performed 3 times now with the quite reliable LaMotte tests.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I agree that the LaMotte kit is normally a very good one for alkalinity.

[cperson]

Hi Gary :wavehand:,

How much aragaMIGHT! do you use to buffer your system? And how and when do you add it? I too use this product. I add it to in my top-off water. It seems to work OK for me. I don't think there is enough 'buffer' in it to be the only buffer additive for my system. I add about 1/2 gallon per day of top off water and 40ml each of ESV B-Ionic part 1 and part 2. This regiment keeps my alk and Ca at reasonable levels.

Eventually I'd like to cut down on B-Ionic use by using kalk, mostly to save money but also to try to get more Ca in my system. I'm trying to decide on what's the easiest way for me to add kalk. Your way of dumping into the sump obviously work for you, I'll probably try it first since it's very simple.

BYW, I spent over an hour reading this post and the related threads on alk from Eric and others. Lot's of interesting chemistry and related experiences. Just shows how much this hobby is in it's infancy, and how dedicated folks are to finding out the "why's".

See you on the 26th. :fish1:

-Craig

[Gary Majchrzak]

I was adding 1/4 tsp Aragamight . to 12 oz. RO water daily and pouring the milky cocktail into the sump.This was in addition to 1 tsp. kalk to 1 gallon{depending on evaporation rate}RO water.Very easy is correct-I just never guessed the alk & Ca could be so high...without visible precipitation , like Randy stated.I guess I'll save some money when I cut back on these additions.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Craig:

<< I don't think there is enough 'buffer' in it to be the only buffer additive for my system. >>

For most people, it isn't enough calcium or alkalinity. For a few tanks with very low calcification and substantial evaporation, it might be adequate.

<< Eventually I'd like to cut down on B-Ionic use by using kalk, mostly to save money but also to try to get more Ca in my system. >>

Saving money is a good reason, but anything that you can do to raise or maintain calcium or alkalinity with limewater you can do with B-ionic. In fact, limewater will be limited by the evaporation rate and the strength of saturated limewater, but B-ionic is not limited in this fashion.

[cperson]

Randy,

Thanks for chiming in. My intention with the limewater was to reduce the amount B-ionic I need to maintain calcium and alkalinity levels. There are also other trace elements in B-Ionic not found in either kalk or aragaMIGHT!, so it would seem to me a good idea to continue to use it.

Next time you are in town let me know - didn't work out last time. Our local group is having a meeting 1/26. If your around you should pop in! See this link...

http://www.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=117

[Gary Majchrzak]

I just had a thought on this today- not that it's the ideal method of doing this- but would heavier feedings tend to drive the alkalinity down?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Gary:

You might check out the thread below. In it we discuss what might cause alkalinity to drop over time. Feeding may or may not do it, depending on what happens to the nitrate and phosphate that results from the feeding.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=58938

[Gary Majchrzak]

Thanks again,Randy.My tangs love citrus fruit,a food that is acidic,and they are going to get much fruit salad in the coming weeks along with some water changes.Since adding CaCl the coralline growth has picked up-but it is taking water changes to bring the alkalinity down-it is not dropping on it's own like I thought it might.Gary

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Adding organic acids like citric and acetic may not have a long term impact on alkalinity. When first added, they will have some lowering effect, but when consumed by bacteria, the alkalinity will largely come back. That's why people can add vinegar to limewtaer, and still get all the alkalinity that the limewater had.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Point taken,Randy.So I'll serve the froze-fruit and then give 'em a bath,'er,water change.Kind'a reminds me of raising my kids! In all seriousness,thanks to you and two other great guys: Playfair & Toddsreef.I may even go out and buy some good test kits! -Gary