Reggie Miller the N.Y. Knicks Killer

[signu459]

Horge

Here is your quote from my first Pacers Knicks Post

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The reason I'm picking New York is because Miller is better at choking than Sprewell --and we all know what a ballhog Reggie can be in the do-or-die seconds of any deciding game.
Signu, ri-iiiight<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well well well, let's see here when will that free tour of the Philippines
country side take place?

Enough smack talking

Hope I can meet up with you Horge while your in Chicago. Maybe we could get all the Chi RC reefer together and do a tour of some of the local shops.

[Wolverine]

Horge, many of us have felt for a long time that the league's making a little push for the Lakers and Shaq to win a Championship. That's really the only explanation for the refs allowing Shaq's offense to consist of 6-7 sec in the lane, travel, blatant charge, optional second travel, dunk.

And it's pretty clear that he pummelled Steve Smith at the end of that game. Oh well.

I'd also much prefer to see the Pacers win, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Dave

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[horge]

Okay, okay. So I was wrong :)
But hey, all I offered was a pic of me...never mind.

I wish the Pacers all the best against the Lakers. It seems the NBA wants the latter to get a championship trophy, given the special 4th quarter treatment in Game7 against the hapless Blazers.

Man, I'd love to meet up with any of you all. But I don't want to get my hopes up because I'm all too familiar with the enormous difficulties in coordinating schedules.

The only shop I've seen in Chicago is in Southside, the one across the road from Midway airport --can't remember the name.

[dragon0121]

Hi folks!
The NBA is about MONEY! The NBA needs a big name, big draw, lotsa' interest, over the top hype to keep the billions rolling in. Shaq is no more a benefactor of kind officiating than MJ was. Each got the 3 step rule, how could he miss that? that had to be a foul rule, and got fouled they don't foul. They are the meal tickets, the superstars. It's too bad because to me it really detracts from the game when the rules don't apply to certain individuals. The spirit of competition isn't 5 on 7, it's 5 on 5, and if you suck today you just might get beat by the underdog. It's not the best always win, it's the best today won. Shame on the officials for their behavior and on the NBA for condoning a league that is a mockery of fair competition. Oh yeah! Find any professional sport where the superstars aren't the recepients of kind officials. Nature of the beast :rolleyes: .

[signu459]

YEP


BTW

Dragon the sports would be swimming and Track and Feild. Although most are not considered "superstars" there is virtually nothing the refs can do to cheat for the athlete and nothing the athletes ( Minus steroids) the athletes can do to cheat

[Wolverine]

Dragon I agree with you, but I think that it's the market that decides first, and the superstar second, in most cases. A few years ago the biggest fear in the NBA front offices was that Utah would win the west, and then Indiana would win the east, so they made sure one of them didn't happen. This year, they couldn't let Portland win the west since Indiana had already taken the east. Shaq has always gotten away with those calls, but he gets away with a lot more now that he's in LA when compared to what he got away with in Orlando. And that's really scary since he's always gotten away with a lot.

As for MJ, sigh. Very few people talk about the fact that the last shot of his career came off of an uncalled offensive foul.

Signu, I love track, but they did something that drove me nuts a few years ago. Sadly, I'm blanking on who it was right now, but one of the fairly big-name sprinters got disqualified from a race because of a false start; he had won the race, and beaten one of the more popular stars. The people on the track didn't see the false start, but when officials reviewed the tape, they decided he got off too quickly. What drove me nuts was that they admitted that he started after the gun went off, but they said that he started so quickly that the signal wouldn't have had time to get from his brain to his legs. Since his brain must have told his legs to go before the gun went off, they considered that a false start, even though his body hadn't moved. I think that was crap; he got punished for having incredible timing. But that's one of the few times I've seen officials blow it for someone in track.

But anyway, I think I'll return to my books now.

Dave


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[Staceon]

Wolverine,

The last shot......he never touched him.......just made him look so bad that it may seemed that way.

[Wolverine]

Staceon, yes he did. One of the sports magazines (I don't remember which one) had a still of it showing his hand pretty firmly against Russell. The shot was a great shot, there's no question about that; and, as a basketball fan, I was happy to see him go out like that. But he DID push off with that left hand before he shot it. Even a friend of mine who's been going to Bulls games since she was about 4 feels there's no doubt about it. Actually, she had started to get sick of the Bulls since she thought they were getting away with too much, but she likes them again now.

Dave

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[This message has been edited by Wolverine (edited 06-06-2000).]

[Staceon]

Ah Wolverine the wonderful liberal media. Dont just look at pictures....look at the tape. MJ left hand was there...but DID NOT PUSH. Russell is falling but MJ hand does not go forward...it actually falls down to the ground. If he pushed his hand would have gone forward, it didn't. His hand stayed in a fixed postion. Russell triped over his own feet. I have the tape at home....I can show you from three different camera angles that he did not push. A picture can be framed in many ways. I knew this might come up today....the tape was already pretty much cued to the shot....showed a few other people....they agreed no offensive foul. Now if you go by the picture it is misleading.

All that aside......certain individuals earn the right to not have calls aganist them. And secondly I do not believe in calling anything in less really balent in the last 30 seconds of a game....let the players decide the outcome.

[Wolverine]

Staceon, I also have it on tape, and my friends and I disagree with your assessment of it, since his hand starts mid-body, and finishes at his right side as Russell goes by, and his hand follows through before he pulls it back. Yes, Russell was off-balance, but, since he was given a little extra shove, we'll never know if he would have been able to recover enough to make a difference.

All that aside, the strongest evidence to me is this...The week after the game, the head ref of the NBA sent a letter to Jerry Sloan saying that he had reviewed the tape and he felt he needed to apologize for missing that call. That information wasn't publicized at all, and the league doesn't really want it known.

I agree somewhat that the players should decide the game at the end, but I think they let too much go, which is why you see things like Shaq getting away with pounding Steve Smith at the end of that last game.

Dave

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[dragon0121]

Staceon,
Gotta ask you to expound on this! :D

"certain individuals earn the right to not have calls aganist them" ??????????

What do you have to do to earn these extra little rules in a sport that others don't get? ;)

[horge]

MJ's history, guys.

What I wanna know is whether the Pacers have enough gas to overcome referee bias and an undeniably deep Laker bench.

I'm just so peed off at the special treatment that I'm presently arranging for some Finals tickets so I can boo the visiting Lakers in person!

[Wolverine]

Staceon, I figured that's how this would end. I just wish I could get a copy of that letter, but they've kept it kind of hush-hush.

As for people earning the right to get away with more, I agree to some extent, but I think there's a limit. And I think it can be a problem when they come to expect that the rules don't apply to them at all. The case in point in my mind was, coincidentally, with Jordan against the Jazz again. I think it was the season after the Bulls won their first championship, but it might have been after the second. They played a great game that went to triple-OT. With a few second left Jeff Malone (this was before the Hornacek days) came across the lane and went up for the shot. Jordan reached down over Malone's left arm and grabbed his right wrist. He was called for the foul, Malone hit the two free throws with under two seconds left and the Jazz one. Here's the thing though. After the foul, Jordan went ballistic. He ended up being booted and fined for bumping the ref who called it. What bugged me was that after the game he was livid saying, "you can't call that on me." And Phil Jackson was saying, "You can't make that call against MJ at the end of a game like that." They never argued whether or not he committed the foul, since both admitted that there was no question it was a foul. They just both thought that the call shouldn't be made because of who it was who was committing the foul. But it would have been OK to call it if BJ Armstrong had been the one doing it.

So, like I said, I do think that there should be some bending of the rules for those who have earned it, but I also think there has to be a limit on that. And I also think they have to truly earn it, and I'm not convinced that everyone on the Lakers has yet earned that right.

Horge,
Good luck getting tickets. If the game were in Chicago I could get some great tickets for you, but I have no connections with Indiana. I hope you brought a lot of money. I've a hunch they're going to be pretty pricey, since it's their first time. I'm judging by what tickets in Utah and Chicago were selling for at those finals. If you go, I want to hear you booing those Lakers. Unfortunately, Indiana is one of the six markets that the NBA would least like to have win.

Dave

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[Staceon]

Dave agree here........a lot of players on the Lakers haven't earned it yet.

[Staceon]

Dave,

We are just going to have to agree to disagree......ok amigo. :)

Dragon,

I was waiting for someone to pick up on that line. ;)Yes I do belive certain individuals earn the right to "get away" with more. For example if some rookie had pulled the same thing that some "star" did he would be called for it much quiker. Just like most things in life you must prove yourself first. Once you have, a little more slack is given. Senority too plays a role. For example the CEO of a compnay can certainly take off and play and round of golf friday afternoon where as the guy in the mailroom may have a little tougher time.

I am just not a socilaist. Ooops did I get back on a political rant. ;) Just I believe their are fundamental reasons why people should not be treated equal. If you earn the respect and prove your worth that yes rules should be bent. One must first earn their battle scares. Lets face it......we dont live in a perect world...nor do I want to.


Horge,

If you come to Indy......let me know. :)

Staceon

[dragon0121]

Interesting thread so far! Let us see.... In baseball a strike is defined as the ball crosses some porion of the plate, and technically is between the knees and the chest in hight. So if John Smith Newcomer to the league is at bat the strike zone is as above. If Mark Maguire (sp?) is batting the definition of the strike zone does not change, how many home runs he hits, commercials he's in, sick kids he visits in the hospital, and years he has been in the league don't change the definition in the rule book for the strike zone. Officials should do their job and apply the rules! If an umpire is calling a game inconsistantly and there are no superstars, he is a worthless umpire who can't perform his job satisfactorily. If the same umpire is calling the game, just as inconsistently, but superstars are benefitting from it, he is a good umpire? I don't think so! He's cheating, clear and simple. Personally I love to watch sports and not notice the officiating, that means they do their job and do an expert job at, like any professional and get out of the way. :) The rules don't change. JMHO