MY-SEA committee: Membership

[ONAGI]

Hello Everyone,
Here is the second thread to form a committee for the MY-SEA organization. We need to have people volunteer and form a team to develop a policy for membership with the MY-SEA organization. This policy should include enrollment, dues, benefits, and responsibilities of membership.

The policy needs to support and advance the mission of the organization. The policy needs to be objective, observable, measureable, and enforceable. Identify your objectives and timelines of task accomplishment to steer the team.

Please sign up to this thread to volunteer your thoughts, skills, and efforts to complete this project. Someone will need to identify some structure to the team. For example, team leader, composer of information, presenter of the information at the next meeting, and whatever other functions or positions that the team deems necessary.

Let me know if you need anything else and good luck. Thanks.

[ONAGI]

Hello Everyone,
I have volunteered to be the project manager of this committee. Please provide some input on membership so we can have a clear definition of rights and responsibilites of being a member.

We have decided that membership will be $2.00 a month pro-rated for new members. This means that if someone new joins in the middle of the year they are resonsible to pay for the months left for the calander year. There is not a pay per month plan. It needs to be paid in full before any member benefits are provided.

an existing member will be required to pay a full year membership yearly. So if someone decides that they don't want to come to the meetings for 4 months they will still be required to pay their full dues to the club. They can't get a partial year membership.

Any new member will be required to complete an application to join. The application will be reviewed by the executive committee and approved or denied. We will need to draft a copy of this.

We need to identify member benefits. Presentations, tours, information exchange, how to workshops, newsletter, possible sponsor discounts, group buys, emergency support. Please provide suggestions of what you'd like as a benefit of being a member.

We need to identify responsibilites of membership. Compliance of rules of club, active participation, and ? Please post some thoughts on this as well.

We really need to wrap up this business, so please donate soemtime to these committes so we can move forward as a club.

Thanks,
Omar

[lori7973]

Originally posted by ONAGI

We have decided that membership will be $2.00 a month pro-rated for new members. This means that if someone new joins in the middle of the year they are resonsible to pay for the months left for the calander year. There is not a pay per month plan. It needs to be paid in full before any member benefits are provided.

an existing member will be required to pay a full year membership yearly. So if someone decides that they don't want to come to the meetings for 4 months they will still be required to pay their full dues to the club. They can't get a partial year membership.

Mike and I disagree with this... sorry I haven't posted prior to this. We would be more than willing to track attendance each month. We feel that someone who wants to join can't do so for an entire year. If this is an option... we would like to handle this, if not, ok.

Any new member will be required to complete an application to join. The application will be reviewed by the executive committee and approved or denied. We will need to draft a copy of this.

I am sorry.. again, we totally disagree. What are we actually going to put on this application? What kinds of questions is legal to ask? No questions need to be asked IMO. Here is a link to C-Sea's website and what you have to fill out to be a member. http://www.c-sea.org/membership.html What happens if you deny someone's application and they feel it's unjust? Ok, now I see where we need a legal committe! This is not a private club, it is open to the public. Again, I appoligize for not seeing this before, but I had to express my opinion once again.

[ONAGI]

The committe has been posted for a while. I think you may be mis-understanding the rule. It doesn't prohibit any NEW member from joining at anytime. That's why there is a pro-rated fee for NEW members. It prevents established or existing members from taking advantage of the pro-rated membership rule. For example, if an existing member doesn't pay their membership in January and In June they see a member benefit that they want to take part in they can't just pay for 6 months to be re-instated in good standing. It keeps it fair for all members in good standing.

The application still needs created. We discussed this at the first meeting in March. There could be a liability for the club if we don't have a screening process. The process would then defines just cause for non-acceptance.

Yes, there's definitely a need for a legal committee to develop an application and pose questions we need answers to.

[lori7973]

Oh, I know what you are saying about the dues. I think that when you join you pay for the whole year and if you fail to pay then you don't get your raffle ticket which we can give out one to each member upon entering the meeting for the door prize raffle or something like that. But if they say, "Oh I fogot to pay my dues two months ago, they will have to pay for the whole year till the end of the origional membership exp. date. It won't extend to the month they actually paid it, the joining date.

I still totally disagree with the application process or the application at all. Who are you trying to seed out???? If someone has been convicted of a crime they will be denyed? I would be more afraid to deny someone than to let them in. What kinds of questions do we need the answers to? Has anyone ever been to any other reef club meeting? I encourage everyone to attend for an example a C-Sea meeting. There is no screening, no questions... just fill out the applicaton, name, address, etc.. pay the monies due and that is it.... Nicest group of people I have ever met! I don't think anyone can convience me to understand the need for screening. This isn't the gun club that we talked about in the first meeting.

[STACKER]

In a nutshell, there is a liability issue regarding any organization, it's membership is completely liable for the actions of single members. We are not living in the 50's anymore and sueing is as easy as using a credit card. A person must be willing to provide their legal name, address, phone, DOB, and whether they have ever been "convicted" of a felony. Keep in mind that it only takes one issue, from one person, one time to cause huge problems. MAybe C-Sea has not given their potential membership liability any time ot consideration.

Case in point: A club I was involved with was established in 1926, there were no problems until 1981 when the elected treasurer misappropriated (stole) $7,000 from the club then split town. Next, in 1989 a members cid climbed onto the clubhouse roof, fell off and was injured. The parents (who should have been supervising) sued the club for medical and P&S to the tune of $35,000. Had we not had a constitution including a screening (adopted after the theft) we would have had to pay a fortune for a $3 million policy to protect the liability of the club and it's members. the insurance companies required verbage to be adopted/ammended ot we would all be individually liable. 30 members, splitting $35,000 plus legal fees.?

Many clubs were formed as grass roots org's. then grew in membership without someone taking a long look at protecting the interests of the members. Those who don't protect themselves are simply a ticking timebomb. The days of a $35,000 suit are gone now too, I'm not willing to risk losing my home for any club membership. Verbage in out constitution and procedure installation will allow us to be bonded and or insured. If we aren't we're stupid.

Just my 2 cents worth of a 2005 reality check.

[ONAGI]

well said and excellent examples. Now let's close our eyes and make it go away. It'll all be ok then.

[STACKER]

I wish that could happen, I was much happier in the 70's when I was a kid and global thermonuclear war was the only thing to be afraid of. Now I worry about slipping out a fart in public for fear of being sued for releasing toxic waste. LOL

[Jamesvcanfield]

Well said. Those flipping farts can be lethal!!!

[lori7973]

I have been doing a little research this morning and even a political place such as Washington D.C., their reef club does not require an application with any more required than name, address, etc. and of course dues.... just the basics. That and a disclaimer at the bottom should be fine. If someone joins us online when they come to their first meeting they can sign thier form... I, ________ agree to the blah blah blah (disclaimer) then sign below.

[lori7973]

Example from PMASI:

DISCLAIMER: By joining the Pittsburgh Marine Aquarist Society Inc. or reading PI-SEAS, an individual agrees to hold PMASI and its Officers harmless for any loss, harm, or damage, no matter how caused, resulting from the individuals contact or affiliation with PMASI.

[Jamesvcanfield]

I have a call in to an Atty. friend of mine. I am going to see if he can draft something for us along these lines. Sound o.k. all? Jamie.

[lori7973]

Ok, but I am not sure if we need an attorney to do this... it is just at the bottom of the membership form.

http://www.pmas.org/membership.htm

[STACKER]

You go girl! Jamie, I'd ask your buddy about the legality of a general disclaimer with regard to Ohio litigation law. I know that disclaimers have been sighed and even notorized only to be dismissed in a suit. That's what makes me nervous. Or we could forgo all of the official documentation and not leglly and officially charter. I guess I'm at the piint now where I don't really care, I just want to move forward.

[lori7973]

Here is what Steven Pro said:

Re: Some helpful advice please
I don't think you can get away with turning anyone down. We have an application in so far as it is a page asking for name, address, phone number(s), email address, interests, and how you heard of the club. But, no one gets turned down. It is really just information so we can keep the membership informed of events.

I do agree with Omar about current but past due members having to pay a full year's membership.

As for insurance, we don't have any. We will get some before bidding to host MACNA, but otherwise the only protection the club has is to be incorporated. And, we didn't have that for the first four tears. At that time, we were large enough and had enough money that we no longer could fly under the radar.



quote:
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lori7973 wrote on 05/13/2005 08:32 AM:
Hi Steve, I was wondering if you could review this thread and let me know how your club goes about the legal end of things. I am talking mostly about insurance, applications, etc... Not the membership and being prorated, I have already discussed this with you.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showt...threadid=559640

If you could please PM me or email me at lori7973@ameritech.net that would be great.

Thank you,

Lori

[STACKER]

We need a president, we need to present discussion to the club, and we need to vote. Theory and preactice mean nothing if we aren't organized. If anyone out there is unconcerned with liability you may want to walk a mile in the shoes of someone who has been sued. Attitudes change shen the doodie is in your lap rather than the neighbors back yard.

Has anyone even looked into chartering, non-profit application, etc. etc.? My biggest issue here is that 2 or 3 of us are doing all of the questioning, all of the research, and expected to make all the decisions, carry all of the responsibility, and incurr all of the liability. I'm thrilled to finally see more than just 3 of us posting.

This area is pivotal in remaining in contact between meetings and sharing info. I may be a pain in the a$$ but I can live with that so long as I can motivate a few and maybe scare off those who want to simply leech off of my hard work. Ya, I may seem upset here, I'm really not, I'm dissapointed in how things have floundered. I stepped up and tried, for 2 months now I've tried to rally someone, anyone. Jamie, thanks for helping! Lori, thanks for getting in there and stirring up soen new thoughts. This stuff takes very little time for the most part. I hope we see some people here tomorrow so we can bond this group a bit more.

I sound like a flippin' drill Sgt. someone slap me! LOL

[Jamesvcanfield]

I appreciate the input Lori. My friend basically confirmed what I thought, there really is no legal entity until we make it one. There are a number of different types of organizations to operate as Corp., P-ship, LLC, etc... All of which I could set up. I was deliberately trying to avoid this since we are still a fledgling group. My goal here was to make a general questionnaire that we provide to new members, that would not get us into trouble INDIVIDUALLY. Thats the key here since technically there is no MYSEA entity. My friend is putting together a list of the 10 questions or so that we cannot ask under Ohio law, which I will propose to the group when I get it. You are correct, we are just a group of individuals at this point. My friend basically said that the general hold harmless agreement you mentioned would not apply for the same reason. My suggestion is this, we draft a new member packet which will be designed to document information on members, we have a new member review committee just to make sure there is nothing there we don't like (most likely not going to be any problems) and we keep this info on file. Lets give it 6 months or a year and form a corporation with bylaws that members must adhere to. Until then, all our officers, are essentially just individuals acting as group leaders. Thoughts, comments. Jamie.

[lori7973]

At this point, I don't care what we do, but I won't agree upon a new member committee as to see if we like the applicant or how he answers the questions. I don't agree at all, even if there probably won't be a problem, I just don't like the concept. We have bi-laws now and will have a code of conduct that will apply when we are something more than a group of individuals and form a corp. or non-profit organization... leaning toward the not for profit. Until then we are just a group of people there is no reason to screen people more than we would screen our friends. Lets keep it simple. Again.. my opinion for what it's worth.

[STACKER]

We AREN"T screening! WE planned to ask for contact info. citizenship, and a statement as to whether they have or have not been convicted of a felony. That's it! noone will be asked anything unless a problem is percieved. We discussed this at length at a meeting and I dont' think you were there Lori. We aren't limiting membership and we aren't doing background checks. That's fruitless anyway for 2 reasons. People lie, and perfectly sane folks can snap and go on a killing spree too! This "application" is a legal formality only. Installed in the constitution and presented to each prospective member as a means of limiting INDIVIDUAL liability.

Imagine being me (yikes! welcome to the dark side) I hold meetings here, someone decides to come in, run their car thru the front of the buildind and steal a few computers, printers, or whatever. If this person is a club member and I decide to press the issue legally, I can sue the club. THe club without insurance becomes a group of individuals all of whom could be named in a suit. It's ths shoew on the other foot situation here and not just a knee jerk reaction. This si why Omar has paved a road that we all find boring! You'll appreciate the hell out of it if anythging bad happens. If nothing bad happens then al we had to do was sit thru some boring talk and paperwork.

Our discussion revolved around protecting us not discriminating because Rich has long hair someone else may act twitchy. If we lay a solid foundation the rest is gravy and there will be no need for discussion later. WE can have fun, learn from others experiences, check out cool tanks, go on short trips, invite guest speakers, etc. etc. with no reservations whatsoever.

It's all a formality but a necessary one to protect us as individuals.

[ONAGI]

Boring? Are you serious? That was some exciting stuff! Just kidding, not exciting, fun, or even interesting.

This type of protection would be the first thing that everyone would be scrambling for in the event something went wrong. I assure you there are people out there looking for opportunities to exploit. Why let yourself be in a position to be exposed to a liability?

Risk management is the goal of effective operation at minimal cost. You must assess all of your liabilities and gamble with the best risks not the highest ones.

[lori7973]

I see your point, but if they have been convicted of a felony, then what? I still don't see the point in asking those questions. And with all the reef clubs I have checked into so far, none ask those questions.

Ok, with all that said... who is paying for the insurance? I totally understand where you are coming from here.. but as a club we do not have that kind of money to pay a insurance premium. Our organization would have to become a legal one before hand, right? We aren't really a club, we are a group of people who call ourselves MY-SEA, but legally this club don't exist. So where does that come into play when getting insurance? It can be a long process to become a non-profit organization and it can be awhile till we could afford insurance as a club.

[Jamesvcanfield]

Wow, Lori this seems to have hit a nerve with you. I think that we all need to get together, and discuss this, rather than post away on this board. Right now we have a bigger issue to deal with, with Steven coming tommorrow. Stacker, I have some ruinning around to do in the morning (dropping the baby off at my mom's and such), so I most likely won't be able to stop for beer, pop, etc.. anyone else able to help out on that? I haven't heard anything from our aircraft repairman friend. Lori, I am anxiuos to meet you and I have alot of questions about your setup, sounds very interesting. Although, I must admit, I want to puke everytime I look at that Steeler logo you have! :D Jamie

[STACKER]

Lori, the direction of the originators is to build this gathering into an organization. The way to do that is by following a specific protocol and pray that the doodoo don't hit the fan first. A legal organization with a tax ID for non-profit is likely our best option. Keeping everything informal is a more a social club than an organization with a plan and a direction. I think the original intent was to make this something to be proud of. A name that commands respect, etc. Maybe some of us don't see it that way.

The original plan (that I was not involved in) was, I believe, to establish a legal presence, encourage membership, and proliferate a local following as well as regional or national awareness regarding what we are freaky about. Marine fish, reef stuff and all things salty!

Regarding insurance, if and when the time comes to pull down a liability policy (I'm the insurance officer in another club) we're looking at about $400 per year for a 1 million dollar blanket liability, about $550 for 2 and about $750 for 3. Right now the treasury is small but will grow with some planning and prudent spending. Since we have no facility to pay for or maintain 100% of the treasury is an immediate benefit for members. All spending can be approved each meeting via a popular vote.

As a wide open association we are we, not MY-SEA. MY-SEA is a nonicre we hung out there and is by no means an official , actual, or legal identifier.

I'm glad you are bringing these issues up, it may give the lurkers the initiative to post and God forbid get off thier hands and get involved.
Regarding felony applicants. It becomes a debatable issue made up of logical and emotional sides. Unless we are all togather to chew both sides up, a compromise will never be attained.

[cheelo]

i'm interested in joining! i just need to look in the tv guide to see if my favorite show is on the same time as the meetings, go get a copy of a rap sheet of myself and contact my lawyer(just in case)
and lets not forget to all bring LOTS OF BEER! i'll bring the jack if someone brings the coke! theres no liability there.
COUNT ME IN!

[STACKER]

Cheelo, I have no issues with BEER that's for certain! Burp! I have Coke, Pepsi, Dew, and some Diet stuff here in the fridge. I'll bring beers but they are all mine :)....

Set the VCR or DVR and dont be a 'tater!!!!!! Git-R-Done! LOL, I kill me!

I'm glad we're addressing the morality issue because we've already had one minor problem. Fun is one thing, stupid folks is another...

[unoit]

Originally posted by cheelo
i'm interested in joining! i just need to look in the tv guide to see if my favorite show is on the same time as the meetings

Me to I sure wouldnt want to miss the Golden Girls. HAHA I really dont
get the idea have you been convicted of felony question. If you are going to go that far whats next drug testing, credit ratings. My grandmas sewing circle or bingo hall doesnt shake its people down like this. My my I sure miss back when.... It looks like I might have to stay with csea for now I just didnt want everyone to know I had a F3 for grocery cart stealing.:wavehand:

[STACKER]

It's all about discussion, don't get yer undies in a bundle.. sheez!