kalkwasser disaster

[frankberr]

I have a 90 gallon with a two corals (tube and frogspawn) and a sabae anemone (sp). 90lbs of live rock and dsb. The tank has only been running 4 months.

Readings are good. ALK 3.5 no nitrates or nitrites/amo. Sal 1.024.

I stated dosing Kalk 6 days ago. The Ph climbed to 8.6. I added Kent Marine buffer to get it back in line and it climbed to 8.8 and killed all 5 of my pepperment shrimp. The corals are drooping and the anemonea is closed up and looks dead. I did not have enough extra water made up so I was up very late doing water change last night. PH back to 8.4. I stopped with the calc.

What is driving me nuts is the calc never got much above 200ppm all throught this process:confused: I have a hagen test kit. I ran out last night and bought a red sea calc tester. It did not work at all. About 1am I notice the new tester was expired!

I bought some liquid calcium to try and save the corals and put it in as per instructions. 1 cap full per 50 gallons daily until reading are up. I am afraid to start dripping calc again though?

This is what I did every day. In a 2.5gallon kent aquadoser I first put 50ml of vinegar. Then 4 large teaspons of kent kalwasser. Then 2.5 gallons of ro/di water. Shook lightly and dripped at 1 drop per second. The 2.5 gallons emptied in about 24 hours.

[eses]

Too quickly dripped, inproperly mixed, and why vinegar? I have never heard of using vinegar in your kalkwasser mix, maybe I've missed something?

You should mix your kalkwasser in another container, let it sit, and only use the clear water. This probably isn't what damaged your tank, but it will clog up your drip bottle pretty quick.

You mention you did this "every day" .. how many days in a row did try dosing the kalkwasser?

I found in my system I can only dose about 1-2 liters per 24 hour period before it begins to drive my alkalinity down. This is in a 75 gallon tank. If your PH is going up, and your alkalinity is dropping, your going too quick.

Also, kalkwasser is good, but it isn't real swell for raising your calcium; just maintaining it. I have found using some of the 2-part systems will help in boosting your Alk/CA to the right level; then you can use the kalkwasser slowly to maintain the right levels. You may even find you can't dose kalkwasser fast enough and you will still need to use another calcium supplement. But using kalkwasser constantly is cheaper in the long run than always adding expensive additives.

I would let things settle back down for a week before using the kalk again, and start using a 2-part buffer to raise your calcium. I've tried the Kent Tech AB, and it worked; but I wasn't satisfied with it. I had to use four times the recommended dosage every 12 hours to get any results on a mature 29 gallon reef. I've heard the other brands out there give better results.

Anyway, hope this helps. I would also recommend reading up more, and finding a second opinion to cross reference with in case I'm slightly missinformed.

Wes

[frankberr]

I dosed the Kalk for 6 days in a row. I thought I was supposed to drip to replace the evaporation? 1 drip per second about did that for me...

Is the kent liquid calcium a good solution?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

frankberr:

Welcome to the chemistry forum!

Those two corals in a 90 gal tank have very little need for calcium and alkalinity. So if you use limewater, you need very, very little. You added too much, and that's why your pH went so high.

Also, buffer doesn't bring down pH typically, and is certainly not a good corrective measure when alk and pH are both on the high side.

Adding a calcium only additive is what you need to raise the calcium without also raising alkalinity. Limewater is not a good choice, because it raises both.

Vinegar is a complication that need not be used by anyone unless you have established that full strength limewater is not strong enough. That is clearly not the case for your tank, so I'd not use the vinegar.

Assuming that your calcium is really less than 350 ppm, I'd bring it up with calcium chloride or something similar, and then maintian the alkalinity and calcium either with a small amount of limewater or a two part additive, of which you won't need much.

I'd let the pH drop by itself over a few days with no alkalinity additive. If it doesn't drop by itself, I can then suggest some other way.

[frankberr]

Thank you very much. The lfs told me I need to get the Calcium up to 350 for the corals. After all that kalk why did nit not go up? Do you think my brand new hagen test kit is not working correctly? I guess Kalk just not a good way to raise Ca, just maintain it?

Should I add the Kent liquid Ca more aggessivly and maybe drip 2.5 gallons of kalk a week?

Thank you so much for you help

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I disagree with the oft repeated notion that limewater is only good for maintaining calcium, not raising it. It can be used to raise calcium if the demand in the tank is not too high (like yours) and when alkalinity is not already high (unlike yours).

What happened in your case is that the alkalinity is high and the pH is high. That makes the concentration of carbonate very much higher than normal, and I expect that you are precipitating calcium carbonate as fast as you add the limewater. I believe that's why the calcium did not rise.

Also, there's the simple math to consider. Saturated limewater is on the order of 800 ppm calcium. Every time you add 1% (1 gallon in a 100 gallon tank) the calcium will rise by 8 ppm. Thus, if you want to raise it by 80 ppm, it will take 10 days at that rate (assuming that none leaves the water by any route). So you simply can't expect a rapid rise with limewater (the basis for the notion above).

I would not add any more limewater until the pH has dropped below 8.3-8.4 and then don't add as much as before.

The liquid calcium is a good way to riase the calcium, but it will take quite a lot for the big increase that you want.

[frankberr]

Just one more question.... Is there any risk of adding the liquid calcium too fast? The instructions say add 2 cap fulls for every 50 gallons per day until you get to the desired level. What if i poured in more?? I don't want the corals to die...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I don't think there's a big danger of adding it too fast as long as you don't add too much. At 2 capfuls per day it will take quite a while, and I'd do it faster.

If you read how much calcium it contains, you can determine how much you need.

For example, if it says it is 20,000 ppm calcium, and you add 1% to your tank water (1 gallon in 100 gallons of tank water), it will raise it by 200 ppm.

Just to be extra catious, you can spread out the additions over several days, but that will still likely be much more than 2 capfuls.