Nominatons for FVRC Forum Manager.

[Aquabucket]

As mentioned before ~ this forum can be a good tool for managing our club.

I recommended that a Forum Manager be appointed.

Duties would include posting polls relative to our club and informing all members via. PMs that an important poll was posted along with a request for them to participate.

Another duty would be recapping what was discussed at previous meetings giving those who were unable to make that particular meeting a chance to comment or respond to a pollable question if applicable.

Decisions for future meetings, time slots etc...have been conducted and finalized at past meetings without the opportunity for those who were unable to attend to voice there opinions. Utilizing the poll features here will enable each member a chance to vote on agenda that was brought up at the meetings they could not attend.

Other duties would include posting a frag trade page for each upcoming meeting. Posting the host members locatons, time slots and other relative info ~ informing all FVRC members via PMs of imortant notices. And posting Stickys on important subjects.

Please feel free to volunteer or nominate an interested member that you think would be best suited fo this positon/duty.

[jandlms]

Do we really need this? If so, then whomever wants it is welcome to the lofty position of grand high poobah.

jandlms

[Hella]

Thats sorta what Iwas was thinking. People found this forum on there own and im sure that they can keep them selves informed with whts going on week to week without all the extra hubbub, I for one and able to check the forums on a day to day without a PM from someone telling me whats going on.

Now im not saying that there cant be one, I just dont see the need for one in a club of under 25 people.

[Aquabucket]

If you look at some of the current polls only a 5 out of 25 have responded so far. Not all members browse the boards as much as some of you and a system of informing members of whats going on will only benifit all members by getting more people involved with club decisions and meetings. Right now thats not happening.

Its one thing to have a good number of members but what good is it if they are in name only and basically absentee individuals.

And what's all this grand poobah stuff? A forum manager is not a president ~ just someone willing to take time to improve the quality of FVRC by informing its members with valuable info.

To be honest If someone is not willing to take these organizational steps this club could fall apart quickly. As it stands some of you don't even realize that one of our members has volunteered to host the April meeting and this was posted almost a week ago. Not one of us has responded to his offer.

I understand the need for this club to be informal but we do need to have things organized better.

I don't understand why several of you don't think this is needed or benificial to our club.

Oh and by the way some members did not just stumble accross this forum but were brought in by me.

I am mainly responding to feedback from members and their concerns for the future of the club. Its not like I just came up with this stuff out of the blue or am looking to have some powerful position ~ heck if a majority of you guys think a forum manager is not needed then so be it. As it stands right now almost 2/3s of our members are failing to participate on a regular basis especially when it comes to making club decisions.

As it stands we may have 25 members only about a 1/3 of them have been active on a consistent basis and turnout at meetings needs to be improved upon.

[z28cam]

Well I for one agree with Aquabucket, we dont need/want a "President" but we do need someone to keep things going and make sure everything is taken care of as far as club happenings go.

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by Hella
Thats sorta what Iwas was thinking. People found this forum on there own and im sure that they can keep them selves informed with whts going on week to week without all the extra hubbub, I for one and able to check the forums on a day to day without a PM from someone telling me whats going on.

Now im not saying that there cant be one, I just dont see the need for one in a club of under 25 people.

Thats' just the kind of attitude that will bring this club to a slow death.
Many members did not just fine this forum all on there own.

I inform 95% or so of my store customers of RC and this club forum. This at the risk of losing business and sales by offering my customers other outlets to purchase corals, fish, etc... How many other LFSs have you come accross that have the guts to do this?

If something is not done soon as far as this clubs ability to organize things more clearly ~ its decline could happen faster than you think.

Now wouldn't a majoraty of you guys want to see things grow and
improve?
BTW 25 members is just a begining I am recruiting more members on almost a weekly basis now that things seem to be coming togethor.

[Hella]

This is the part where I just bite my tongue and smile.

[z28cam]

Well you cant please em all :rolleyes:

[aberg12012]

Aquabucket... don't take this the wrong way. We all appreciate everything your doing for us and I agree with you as to how easily things could disspate with the group, but your comming across maybe a little agressive. Just a friendly comment, and I certainly don't want to sound ungrateful or anything. I'm excited to be a part of the group, and although I can't make many meetings, I too don't want to see it fall apart. I'll participate as much as I can, but lets not get too worked up about if members are not participating to the level we wish. All that'll happen otherwise is people will be turned away by feeling pushed around. I know that's not what your trying to do (be pushy) but your last message did come across that way to me. I don't want to offend you, I'm just not going to sugar coat it. :)

Alan

[mherrb]

Aquabucket,
I could not agree with you more. I have already started losing interest in the club, I guess I was expecting a little more than light conversation for an hour and a frag swap. Without leadership, nothing gets done. How long is the same 10-15 people trading the same zo-lps frags going to be exciting ? No big deal, I work a weird schedule, so with all the threads about switching days and times, I don't think I'll be making many meetings anyway.

[jandlms]

This whole series of threads has gotten a little too intense. Keep in mind "gentlemen" that we are (or were intended to be) a loose group of local reefers that gets together every month or s to see each others tanks, swap a frag or two and maybe learn something new. Aside from these simple things there is plenty of room for a lot of improvementin our organization.
I'm guilty of procrastinating and not sending out a list of names and phone numbers that were collected at the last meeting. And yes name tags would have been nice at my house, but sorry the dog ate them. All of us can point at ourselves and say I could have done this to make the club better but didn't.
For heavens sake cant we all just get along.
If Spike or anyone else wants to take on the informal role of info distributor and forum monitor then great do so with my thanks.
As for getting more organized, why don't we wait until the next meeting when we are face to face rather than sniping on the message boards.
Have a nice evening.
jandlms
Jon

[FEEDERFISH]

So far I had a great time at both meets and am looking forward to the next, I like to see the different reef setups, talk about corals, and check out different LFS's around the area. We have only had 2 meets, I have never been to any other meets so I am not sure what all goes on. There is always room for future improvement at future meets and new things to do. We have pretty much just met and everyone I think is new to this, group buys and group visits to LFSs have been good so far I think I had a positive experience both times, thats a +. I joined because I wanted to pick up information and share thoughts about different reef setups and corals, and pick up a new addition for my reef during the swap. I can finally talk about phosphates, metal Halides, and skimmers and not get a confused look, like WHAT :confused: If anyone would like to post ideas for meets that would be great, most people i think are new to the "reef" tank and are not sure what to cover and what possiblites or activites are actually out there for a group to do at a meet.

[jmkarcz]

I agree.. talk it out at a meeting.. if it is this important, let's just say anyone interested in weighing in should be there.


Btw... since I could not attend meeting 1 or 2... are the dues and how much should bring or are things not that formal yet?

:) Jason

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by jandlms

As for getting more organized, why don't we wait until the next meeting when we are face to face rather than sniping on the message boards.
Have a nice evening.
jandlms
Jon

This is starting to become an endless cycle.

As I recall after the last meeting several members approached me at the store including you stating that a poll would be posted in a few days allowing members to have input on the time and date of the next meeting. That poll never materialized and you took it upon yourself to set the date without the input of other members.

Same thing occured at the first meeting ~ all decisions on the club and the next meeting including time and date were finalized at the meeting.

Don't you guys see what's wrong with this? Fellow members who could not attend these meeting were basically shut out with regard to any outcome on what transpired. Do you guys really think that's a fair way to run a club?

Its a vicious cycle ~ those who can't make meetings that are set in stone by a few are left out in the dark.

How difficult is it for a member that attended a meeting to post what was decided or discussed. This would give members who could not attend a voice in regard to what transpired.

Every member should have the opportunity to cast his vote on club matters ~ especially with regard to those decisions that were made by the members who where fortunate enough to attend an individual meeting.

The last thing I want to do is to talk about this stuff at the meetings. I'd much rather talk about captive coral reefs and gaze at the hosts aquarium.

This forum is a great tool to discuss and decide club matters.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jmkarcz

but lets not get too worked up about if members are not participating to the level we wish. All that'll happen otherwise is people will be turned away by feeling pushed around.[QUOTE]

Jason ~ That's exactly whats happening now ~ a few are making decisions for the majority especially when it comes to the date and times of the meetings.

If more members were allowed to vote on these issues attendence would be higher. As it is way too many members are being left out of the process and losing interest.

Lets keep this thread on topic.

As already stated I volunteered after being approached by several members to help orgainize things and create a more democratic enviornment.

If any one else wants to volunteer for the Forum Manager position please post your intentions.

[jandlms]

Obviously I have been taken the wrong way. My apologies Aquabucket for not posting the aforementioned poll. I'm glad you did. The results do seem to indicate that the time and day of the meeting are not that important to the respondents. If you or anyone else wants to manage this forum, then go ahead. I have neither the time and inclination.
As for the next meeting being decided by a few individuals and not being democratic, well, everyone that took the time and effort to be at the last meeting thought coralboyfarms was a good option for this next meeting. Just say the word and it can be rescheduled, postponed until everyone can be there, or cancelled. It makes no nevermind to me.
As stated in other threads, I was just facillitating the next meeting at coralboy farms. ANYONE else wanting to take more control of the forum, the meetings or anything else is fine with me. I am not the collective conscience of this group. I will not stand idly by and be snapped at for simply facillitating the next meeting when nobody could otherwise host it at this time.
Finally, it seems that the comment that a few are making decisions for the majority seems poorly thought out and beneath you Spike. Very few of the members of this group have yet to respond to the poll and so far I see the results as showing no clear cut majority. The only majority I have seen was consensus at the last meeting to have the next meeting at CBF. I'm done with this. Good luck!
jandlms
jandlms

[z28cam]

Alright feathers are getting ruffled :)

So in attempt at keeping the thread on track I nominate spike......

[Aquabucket]

Originally posted by jandlms

Finally, it seems that the comment that a few are making decisions for the majority seems poorly thought out and beneath you Spike. Very few of the members of this group have yet to respond to the poll and so far I see the results as showing no clear cut majority. The only majority I have seen was consensus at the last meeting to have the next meeting at CBF. I'm done with this. Good luck!
jandlms
jandlms

You are still missing the point a bit ~ you may have had a majority of the members at the meeting decide on CBF ~ but members who were absent from the meeting do to date/time conflicts had no voice. Not that it may have mattered in this case. From now on all members will have an opportunity to have a voice in regard to future meetings whether they attended the previous meeting or not.

First off ~ the polls are going to be a guidline and a useful tool to gain more insight into our members preferences. This info will help each host decide on what days and time slots our members prefer and opens the possibility that a poll can be taken for each individual meeting so everyone gets a chance to attend a meeting as time slots and days may vary from each months meet. This will allow members who can't make meetings on certain days or times a chance to be able to attend some future meetings.

I have yet to PM all the members who may have not yet voted so the polls on day and time preferences will be open until a majority of our members have voted.

As for the the few making decisions for the rest these concerns did not originate from me ~ I am just voicing the opinions of several members who approached me with those concerns.

Jon, I think you are taking this a little too personally ~ you have done a fine job the past few weeks faciltating the meetings. Coral Boy Farms was an excellent choice for the next meeting. Every new club will go through some growing pains.

So far we have one member who offered to host the next meeting. At the proper time a poll will be made giving our members a chance to vote on the time and date of that meeting after the host provides a small window in regard to the time and day that the host can accomidate us.

Once some of these polls have concluded I intend to create a post that will ask all members whether they intend to host a meeting at some time in the future. This will give us an idea of how many meetings will be possible with members as hosts.

Also in the works is a possible trip to the Shedd Aquarium in Chicago along with some stops at a few LFS afterward.

I am sorry if I offended you or anyone else in any way but feel certain steps had to be taken to improve the quality of this club and give more members an opportunity to be involved.

Once all the "dust" has cleared we can spend more time at the meetings chatting about our systems, corals, vendor experiences and other reef related stuff.

[jandlms]

SPike,
I'm not missing the point. Neither am I offended or upset. I understand the dynamics here. My opinion is that a forum manager is fine (I second z28's nomination). I just don't want us to become too reliant on Reef Central and polls posted on reef central. As you can see from the response so far (and I'm sure more will come in) to the polls that they are not a replacement for all of us just talking together. I am also concerned with some of the problems that reef central and some of its moderators have been having lately with some members ending up banned from the system. I think that "discussing" this groups issues (whatever they may be) is best done in a face to face open meeintg and not on a message board.
Again no offense taken and none intended. My whole take on the subjects discusse is whatever the group decides is fine with me. I can meet Sturdays, Sundays, or the third mMonday directly after a full moon when the Tridacnas are spawning. It don't matter to me. Out.
jandlms

[Aquabucket]

These forums are just for support and to help facilitate & review the face to face communication that goes on at the meetings.

Its just a useful tool but in no way do I indend it to be the only form of discussion with regard to club related subjects.

BTW ~ thanks for the nomination! ~ you too Joe!

[aberg12012]

I'll second the nomination for Aquabucket. Although I've never met you in person, from what I've seen in the forum you have what the group needs to stay afloat. Past "grumblings" by myself and others put aside. :)

[aberg12012]

Originally posted by Aquabucket
Once all the "dust" has cleared we can spend more time at the meetings chatting about our systems, corals, vendor experiences and other reef related stuff.

This I couldn't agree with more. This sums it up very well, in that we first need to get the main structure of the club ironed out before we can sit back and talk about the more fun stuff. Sorry for jumping on your case before.

Also... since you mentioned not knowing how many people would be willing to host a meeting. I'll put my name in the hat. I would love to host a meeting down the road, after I get settled into my new house.

[FEEDERFISH]

I think we should get a future outlook for up and coming meets, setup an entire year if thats possible, It's not that big of deal that some members can not make it while the majority can, they will miss out somewhat but if there was a long term schedule, members can see in advance when or where a next meeting will be and they can schedule their time to make it. I think to be a member of FVRC you dont have to make it to every meet and take off of work, write a report or what ever ...as long as you post on the forums and have a great time thats what this club should be about. If your schedule fits and you make it to a meet, thats even better you meet new people and learn new things. The future outlook might be hard to setup but list some dates two or three months ahead of time and have a sign up sheet, where a members can sign up to be a host, and suggestions next to the member where others can suggest what interesting topic to cover. If there is no host then the assigned leader can set up something like we did this month, Host is Coral Boy Farms, But with the future dates set like the third sat or sun... morn or afternoon.... there can be a poll for such a date and a time if a host is available and picks a date to set at his/ her home. If that date/ time doesnt work for 50-60% as the poll will show ahead of time then we can decide to rechedule from there. I think having a host available for a meet is very important. With those extra weeks available the notice of a re-schedule will be easier, than if it was only 3 weeks like it is now, We can still perfect what we have, we already have members that enjoy the meets that is a start, now all we have to do is a little more organizing and perfecting...I would like to setup a FVRC page on yahoo groups to post pics of frags and a few otherthings, there is a sweet calendar that everyone can post on also.....if anyone would like that option...i could setup a poll and I will setup a group page on yahoo


I nominate "spike" for leadership

[daddavis1]

You have my vote

[iceman5]

spike has my vote. lets just remember we are all here to have fun, learn ,trade some frags and possibly make some friends with the same interests. i know i can't make it to every meeting and im fine with that. we can all work together and try to be happy.

[Aquabucket]

Thanks all for the nominations! I will try my best to keep things organized, fair, and friendly.

I think its time I pull the sticky off this thread and we move on to more important issues.

[Zombies026]

Wow I feel as if I am in a bad episode of the twilight zone...LoL...Mommy will u make daddy and brother stop fighting??LoL..All kidding aside Spike ya gots my vote...But no one has answered me if there will b a car pool for the next meeting at Coralboys place...Can't well all just play nicely together??LoL...

[z28cam]

Whens the innaugeration party, Ill bring the drinks :D

[jmkarcz]

Don't feel to bad, no one answered my question about dues or not... I asked a week ago about directions.. and again yesterday and now its a big thing...

Anyway... a page and a half ago Spike quoted me... though I can't remember every typing that, I have to admit I was and still am growing frustrated enough to just stay home.

Two years ago or so I started going to the GREEN BAY AQUARIUM SOCIETY meetings. I showed up for MY first meeting to pay my dues and introduce myself and then spend the rest of a perfectly good evening listening to children bicker. (many of which were 2x my age). I have been offerin ONLY SUGGESTIONS as that was the request made... I am/was over joyed that another group was forming. I have been watching as meeting dates and locations are decided and I continue to stay up late offering futal suggestions that I am only sure are read when someone desagrees with me. I see people nominating people they don't know, tempers flaring, and points being missed. reread my early comment about a guy I work with that screws up every meeting by sidetracking it. I suggested multiple pillar leaders earlier because I saw a few strong leaders emerging. I don't think there is a lot of responsibility there. We all have real lives and identities. By day, I am Jason... Brick, Fireplace, Tile and Stone Sales Guy. At 5 pm weeknights and weekends I turn into DAD. And during naps and night nights I go back to Owner/Operator or the SAND CASTLE REEF WORKS in my basement, and when the timer turns out the lights I squeeze my last filter pad and pound keys here till I fall asleep. I expect everyone else (assume) has a very simular life. I wouldn't want the position... but would share any energy I have with someone who can manage it.

Spike is a very logical suggestion. He is in a very pivitol position, VERY knowledgeable (I threw him some curve balls and he hit them back to me. Sorry spike I wasn't as dumb as some of the questions I asked.) Green Bay has lacked a seroius Saltwater enthusiest retailer for a while... one guy in town tells me I am stupid for owning an r/o unit and a hydrometer, and even a ph test kit but won't tell me what to do to keep an anonome alive. I knew this man when he worked for the very store SPIKE works at now. He was responsible for encouraging some of my interest but now only tells me I'm wrong. I shop in Milwaukee and Chicago now, But I will give Spike my business, and MY DOLLAR which is MY VOTE. But I do not know everyone else. I want to know everyone else. I have learned some about some of you everynight after lights out and night night, but I also don't want to get involved in another GBAS- I never did go back again. I'm here about the hobby. I also support a semi-formal format. I beleive NO FORMAT means certain death.

Suggestion: lets get all member and interested parties emails and email them a loosely put together format of the next meeting after the meeting... ie: people who attended. topics - (not great detail) discussed. Who's hosting up comming months meetings and events. Any decisions to be made at the next meeting, and ARE THE DUES? and the next meeting is at such and so's place and 2 potential dates are set vote now. we vote: and then a week to 10 days before, it is set in stone and we take a potential sound off for attendance. (make it an fill in the blank form for all I care. and easy, Like I said no one has enough time for their water hobies already.

There is a format. I challange someone else to come up with something more productive and easier. I support those of you doing ALL THE GROUND WORK... but I support more the people who will be the club and the mass without which there is no club and these people who can not make the meetings because they'r supporting their habit, or lively hood - these people should not be left out.

Jason

[nellie54914]

I just joined but have been reading posts for hours tonight, from everything I've seen I agree that Spike would be a great choice for a forum manager! I prefer the idea of the administrative stuff, organizing meetings, etc. is done on this forum instead of at the meetings. If nobody takes charge it probably won't get done, because everybody would be waiting for someone else to do it.

Just as tempers can flare in these postings, they can flare just as easily at meetings. I'd much rather have it on here where I can just skip past a posting or 2 instead of in a meeting wasting my time, and I'm sure all of our time is precious to us. I want to go to meetings to meet new people and learn more about the hobby, not to listen to people bicker. It seems that with polls, PMs and postings on here a lot can get accomplished and all members have access to it.

I also think the idea of posting what happened at the meeting is a good one so those who couldn't attend are kept in the loop.

[jmkarcz]

But if none of it is done at a meeting... why post?

J

[z28cam]

jmkarcz...the dues question was answered in aquabuckets thread (taking it all in).

But from my point of view we have nothing to pay for such as website, or any promotion items ie stickers, shirts etc... so right now there is no need for dues.. And when the time does come I think it is going to be more of a donation kind of thing, "dues" seems so pushy. "you cant play with us unless you pay" :D Then you have to figure out what each person should pay and what happens if the person doesn't pay? Seems to big business to me :)

I say screw the dues (nice lingo eh?) and let people donate what they feel comfortable with. And if we come up short on something then spike or who ever can post and ask if anyone else would like to donate money to whatever the cause is.

And as for directions to Coral Boys. Jandlms was suppose to post some directions but hasn't yet.

[jandlms]

Mako56 beat me to the punch on the directions. Read the post about the meeting at coralboy farms. To recap. Take 42 to cty G. Turn on G towards the lake. As G bends to the north you will see a house and a large steel building. That is coralboys place. No signs. Just lok for all the cars.
jandlms