When to add snails/crabs?

[curtisvill]

I am just about finished cycling the rock in my nano cube and I noticed last night that I am starting to get an algae bloom on the rock, it is brown. My questions are these:

1) When is it safe to add the clean up crew?
2) How many snails and crabs would you reccomend for a 12gal JBJ nano?

Thanks.

[mikedege]

brown algae bloom is normal, dont worry about it, as far as clean up crew is concerned, you can do a search on it, but i would get

1 turbo
5 cerith
2 nassarius
2 bumblebee
4 hernit crabs

imo, good luck, Mike

[Carl_in_Florida]

I would not rush in the cleanup crew. Make sure your cycle is completely done or you will kill them and have another cycle (speaking from experience here).
If you are getting algee blooms that is a good sign. Personally, I would do water changes now with quality water, watch the readings, and then move forward.
I know lots of people have the bumble bees but their are mixed reviews on them. I do not have any experience with them so just make sure you do your homework.

Carl

[Sugar Magnolia]

Skip the turbo in a 13 gallon tank. They tend to big bulldozers, knocking over frags and smaller rocks. Get yourelf a couple of margarita snails instead. Bumble bees are fine. I've got some that are a few years old and have never bothered anything in the tank. They are nocturnal btw, preferring to snooze the day away tucked in a crevice in the LR.

Here's what I'd suggest for stocking:
4 nass snails - sand bed stirrers
4 ceriths - sand bed and glass surfaces
2 margaritas - LR and glass surfaces
2 bumble bees - LR and sand grazers
2 micro blue leg hermits
2 scarlett reef hermits
extra, larger empty shells for the hermits to choose from.

["F" is 4 Fish]

from my experience with my ten. i started out with ten of those guys and they literally killed each other. i now have maybe two left. and they pick on by red scarlet and snails alot. once i get by fuge up, i'll probably throw them in there.

as of now, i have 10 nass., 6 ast., 3 scarlet, and 2 blueleg
i'm going to get 5 more nass., 3 ast. for the sump and 3 scarlet for my display.

[dzhuo]

normally, when will the diatom kick in? i have a new tank too but after a week of cycle, there is no diatom whatsoever. does it mean my tank has not cycle yet?

also, are you suppose to add cleaning critters after the cycle?

thanks!

[Carl_in_Florida]

The best judge where you are at in your cycle is your test results. 0 amonia, nitrates, and nitrite means cycle is done,
diatoms may or may not show up.
You should put in a cleanup crew after the cycle unless you are building a tank that will show off you varying types of algee. :)

Carl

[dzhuo]

Carl,
ok, i will check my amonia, nitrates and nitrites after a couple of weeks. i thought diatom is a sure way to indicate that a cycle has started. but since my tank still has no diatom, i thought my cycle has not even start it.

thanks!

[Carl_in_Florida]

In my experience the diatoms come after the algee bloom. The algee blooms because of the excess of nutrients that they feed off of. this means that this is possibly the last stage of the cycle.
if the algee gets crazy you can do some water changes. Everything sounds good to me

Carl

[dzhuo]

when you say algae bloom, you mean hair algae?

[Carl_in_Florida]

any algee. You will know when you have a bloom. One day you wil say, "oh look, I think it is some algee." The next you will say, "How in the world will I get rid of all this algee?"

[dzhuo]

yes when i was doing research for a new tank, i have came across many stories of that. i am fully prepare for it. what i want to confirm is, algae bloom indicates a cycle but if your newly setup tank has no algae (or algae bloom) whatsoever, it doesn't not mean the cycle is over correct?

[Carl_in_Florida]

Algee is not the final say on your cycle, the tests are. Without getting technical, the cycle is the process of the good stuff inyou tank population the tank in sufficient quantities to consume the bad stuff.
When organisms die they leach pollutants into the water. Through the nitrification process, other organisms grow to eat those organisms, thus the cycle.
Algee blooms when certain things are in abundance in your tank, like phosphates and nitrate. This when the algee comes, it is a top feeder and it means that you are about done.
The problem here is that your cycle could be so mild that algee never blooms.
Or your cycle could be so bad that you get such an algee bloom that when all the algee soncumes its food, it then dies causing another cycle.
This is why you want to test your water can folow the cycle.

Carl

[dzhuo]

thanks Carl. my tank has been cycle for a week and i only see tiny bubble algae and a tiny bit of hair algae. the tank has absolutely no diatom whatsoever so i am wondering if the cycle has begin or not. looks like i need to test para. also looks like the algae will come.

[Carl_in_Florida]

The cycle begins the moment you put that rock int he tank.

I wouldn't waste my time with the tests right now unless you have access to them. give it a couple of weeks. Remember, nothing good happens fast in this hobby.

Carl

[curtisvill]

I came home tonight and I now have some bubble algae on the rocks. All of the bubbles are smaller than a pea. How should I get rid of this or should I just let it run it's course. Thanks for all of the help so far.

John

[Carl_in_Florida]

give it some time. in a week or so I would do a water change and try to get it all out. But don't stress it right now. Just try to find life in there.
Look at it this way. At least the algee is alive.

carl

[curtisvill]

OK Carl. I had a bubble algae outbreak in a tank several years ago and it was a PITA!!! Now I will wait and see. This is my first tank since my last one blew out the back, long story and quite a big mess.

[dzhuo]

curtisvill,
i have the exact same experience as you right now!!! i saw many many tiny tiny bubble algae on my live rock. i did some search on them and notice that once they establish themselves, it's virtually impossible to totall get rid of them. given that, i took action right the way. i thought an emerald carb. so far, he is eating stuff but he only stay in one rock and never moves to the other rock. i wish to would move over to the other rocks of the tank and start taking care of those little bubble algae.

thanks!

[Carl_in_Florida]

I waited till my cycle was over then did a water change. once the bucket was full I gently scrubbed each rock free of all the dead stuff and the various algees that developed.

Carl

[Sugar Magnolia]

Make sure you don't pop those bubbles inside the tank. Popping them will release spores and you'll end up wit ha ton of bubble algae. The best way to handle valonia is to remove the rock from the tank and gently pry the bubbles off with a toothpick or tweezers. Usually gently wiggling under the bubble will release it. Once you've gotten them off, rinse the rock in a bucket of tank water and place it back in the tank.

Emerald crabs tend to eat the valonia when it's small, but won't touch the larger bubbles. I've always had good results with an emerald to rid the tank of any valonia that remained on the rock after manual removal.

[Carl_in_Florida]

I just scrubbed the rock with a scrub brush in a bucket of water change water.

[dzhuo]

the bubbles in my tanks are very small but numerous. i don't think i can pick out all the bubble with a tweezer. i am sure i will miss a few given their tiny size. the emerald carb seems to be pretty effective. the rock that he's on is free of bubble. i believe he ate them all. however, he has not moved to the other rocks yet. this concerns me a bit. my aquascrape is the typical 2 islands with a gap in the middle. will my emerald carb move over to the other rock? he would have to walk on sand to cross to the other island. do you think that will happen?

if no, i might need to manually put him over there or buy another emerlad carb. do you think a 10G can sustain 2 emerald carbs?

thanks!

[Sugar Magnolia]

Just go with one. Fights may break out with two in a 10. Unless of course, your LFS employee can sex them for you and you get a male and a female.

[dzhuo]

ok. do you think my emerald carb will eventually move over to the other rock? or should i manually move him over?

thanks!

[dzhuo]

well, to answer my own question: the emerald carb finally moved over to the other island. the only way he could have cross to the other island is either by swim or walk on sand. anyway, i am happy that he finally moved over to the other island where there are still tiny bubble alage.

thanks!

[Sugar Magnolia]

They generally do walk around, unless they are dead. ;)