Three 175W MH Vs. two 250W MH

[ReefRatz]

Hi Everyone!

Another Newbie question for everyone. Right now I have VHOs in my tank and I would like to get it upgraded to MH. My question is should I go with three 175W that will give me total of 525 Watts or go with two 250W that will give me 500watts of lighting? Or go with a combination of 175 and 250? My question is that... running three 175 ballasts is less energy efficient than two 250s? How about the heat dissipation, three lamps Vs. two?
(I have two m57 type 175w ballasts at hand. )
Tank Dims. 60L x 24W x 32H

Thank you all
Aji

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/83799mh.jpg

[chrisaggie]

I would go for the 2 250s. This is simply because 250w bulbs can punch deeper into your tank. With a depth of 32" you will need it. I know you are trying to save energy, but with a tank that deep 400s would even be better but not neccesary.
~Chris

[Ludwigia73]

When it comes time to change my halides, I'll be going with 400's and I only have a 65 gallon tall!

[45commando]

Yep you'll need minimum of 250's for that depth.You may want to mount the bulbs perpendicular to the back of the tank,rather than parallel to it.I read it somewhere a few years back,that it gives better coverage-something to do with how the light is emitted from the bulb.Anyway may be worth giving it a try.I've used my bulbs this way for years.HTH.

[djfrankie]

I'll vote for the (2) 250's...better punch and less money at replacement time.

djfrankie

[LawnTodd]

I would go 3 X 400w. Thats what I had on my old 125.
Todd

[chrisaggie]

I think 3 400s is a bit much (bettter too much than too little though), but I do think that 2 DE 250s would be very nice. I would reccomend the XM bulbs as they a good bit brighter than the average halide. Reefratz, do you have any bracing in your tank? Just asking because usually it's not the best idea to put a halide right over a brace.

[ReefRatz]

Originally posted by chrisaggie
I think 3 400s is a bit much (bettter too much than too little though), but I do think that 2 DE 250s would be very nice. I would reccomend the XM bulbs as they a good bit brighter than the average halide. Reefratz, do you have any bracing in your tank? Just asking because usually it's not the best idea to put a halide right over a brace.

Chris
Yes I guess its a brace.. The top of the tank is coverd with acrylic with 2 large access cut outs and one for the overflow. No metal backets or braces. I attached a pic. I do not have any measurements of the cut outs. Hope it make sense.
Thanks for all the help.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/83799top.jpg

[chrisaggie]

You could put a halide over the center brace if you did want to run three bulbs, but there would be some shadowing and loss of light through the brace. Other than that you could do it. Just make sure it's far enough away that the brace does not get hot.

[Bullredchaser]

I would do 2 x 250 at 10k for intensity and use two VHOs for actinic to help with color.Ofcourse if your buying new for about 30.00 more each you could get dual 400's and have the power to reach down 32 inches.Make sure you get electonic balast as they run cooler and are energy effecient. Heres the link to cheapest Ive found with good quality. http://oceanencounter.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=OE&Product_Code=4WEMHRK&Category_Code=EVCEB

[LawnTodd]

Try to stay away from Ocean Encounter. I'm from that area and not to many people like him. Vinny has caused a lot of problems in my old reef club (Philadelphia Area Reef Club). If your going to get them shipped try ChampionLighting.com. They're a reef central sponser.
Todd

[LawnTodd]

Here's the link.
http://www.championlighting.com/e/env/0001gmL33HlJl4cuus064F3/Products/Lighting/eballast.html?link=/Products/productinfo.html&item=main:be4

[Ludwigia73]

I had great experience with InnovativeLights.com. He shipped the stuff to me quickly, it was extremely reasonable, and I just happened to do the deal when there was a free moonlight involved. The light was shipped without the moonlight, and a quick call proved he'd sent me an email, stating they ran out, and he sent me another a week later at his expense. Good guy! I think his name was princeton. He set me up with a ballast, socket, bracket, spider reflector, and PFO 14000 k 250w mh bulb all for 185 shipped. Plus the moonlight!

[VinceC]

LawnTodd,

Want to fill me in about what you are talking about.
I have not been there since I moved 2 years ago.

Vince
OceanEncounter.com

[lesniewv]

Todd,

I have been dealing with Vince for well over a year now, and I have nothing but good things to say about him and how he conducts his business.

In my first few PARC meetings, it was brought up that local sponsors were hesitant to support PARC because of the implied link between Vince and the club. I thought that was resolved and any assumed links betwen the club and Vince had been addressed.

Regardless if that's the reason or not, you should be a lot more specific when you flame people. If you have some real world experience where he has caused problems you should bring them up. Why don't you share the facts behind your statement instead of posting third party hearsay.

Oh yeah, maybe you haven't noticed, but Oceanencounter is an RC sponsor and there's a lot of good feedback about him as well. If you look closely, there's good and bad feedback about everyone, but it is usually posted about an experience and not made as a general blanket statement. I'm from that area as well and I'd rather you not speak for me.

[LawnTodd]

Aji, I apologize for causing controversy in your thread. I am getting ready to go out for the day and do not have time to tell the story. I will post my experience when I get home.
Todd

[billpa]

LawnTodd,

Im not sure what your problem with Ocean Encounter is but frankly I think its personal. I have been dealing with Vince for a few months now. Almost every piece of equipment for my new 180g came from him...3 pumps, 3 halide retros, heaters, etc. etc.

His service is excellent and so are his prices. To think you have to flame him on a Florida reef club forum and give no explanation is absolutely absurd. I can give you several reasons why I wouldnt shop at Champion (only 20 minutes from my house). And they are valid reasons...not some personal vendetta.

There are alot of people that like Vince. He stands by his products and he is very friendly to all of his customers. He even goes out of his way on custom jobs ie my new sump being built by Precision Marine.

Ocean Encounter is a great vendor...period. I could care less what personal issues you and the other PARC people have with him. That has nothing to do with his company, products or service.

billpa

[reefguyinpa]

Todd,
I was going to comment on your comments about Vince but you have given no explaination of your stand. I have always found Vince to be a stand up guy. I have known Vince since the fledgling days of PARC and he is one of the founders of the club you hold in such high regard. I see no reason to get personal here. I have also done business with Vince and he has been nothing but helpful.

ReefRatz I appologize that I felt compelled to stick up for my friend but bashing like this on the boards should not stand.

Thanks for your time,
Jim

[Green Mariner]

Well lawntodd, where do you get this stuff from? I am also one of the founding members of PARC and up to the time when Jon took over there was never any sort of "problem" with Vince or Ocean Encounter. Since the time Jon took over neither Vince nor I have been to a PARC meeting. So whats your beef? I also find it funny that you choose to leave out the part where you say that your friend walter is friends with perry the owner of champion. hmmmmm.....................and still no explaination from you on your side, well I guess that your friend walter being friends with the owner of champion is explaination enough.

I do apologize to ReefRatz and the rest of the membership of FMAS for sticking my nose into your thread.

[ByTor]

I to give a :thumbsup: to Vince, My lighting came from him and will definitely deal with him again!

[ByTor]

Back to the topic, Reefratz,
IMO if your going to keep an sps dominate system go with 400's just use some good fans and hood ventilation. Also you willwant to have a good topoff system to deal with the higher level of evaperation..
If your just interested in a mixed system 250's will be fine...

[LawnTodd]

I'll start off by saying the above statement was made by me and may or may not reflect the views of PARC (Philadelphia Area Reef Club). I come from a smaller club in Philly. We do not collect membership dues we rely on donations from lfs that we raffle off at our meetings. When I was an active member of PARC one of the things I would do is go to lfs and try to get donations. One of the larger lfs in the area would not sponsor our club because of our affiliation with Vince. At the time Vince did not have a store front but was selling out of his garage (or something of that sort). The owner of the store explained to me that Vince would walk through his store and would approach customers and say he could beat the prices and hand out his number. I'm all for competition but that’s a shady way to drum up business.

Lesnie, I was not speaking for you and I corrected that in my responce.
Bill, I am a member of this club, that's why I posted here. I don't follow threads about OE and flame him. I was sharing info about a vendor. That's what's great about RC you can share your experiences with fellow reefers.
Jim, I'm glad Vince has been very helpful with you. This is a free country. You can spend your money where you want and I'll spend mine where I want.
Cherry cat, I'm not sure what Walt has to do with this? You have a problem with my post not with Walt lets keep him out of this.

Todd

[VinceC]

Todd

Never happened.

Unless you were standing there and have first hand knowledge you really should not come on a public forum and make false statements that come from a competitor.


I was sharing info about a vendor.

First, you are sharing false hearsay. Were you there?

That's what's great about RC you can share your experiences with fellow reefers.

Second it was not your experience it was hearsay from another vendor.(competitor)
The real reason why that LFS would not donate was because I was one of the founders of PARC and I was his competition which would cause a conflict of interest.

Vince

[billpa]

It's not just hearsay...It's slander!

[Ludwigia73]

Poor reefratz, thread majorly hi-jacked!

[Sonia Taro]

As an active member of PARC I can say that none of us have a problem with Vince and have heard nothing but good things about his operation. We are grateful to him as a founding member. We do wish that he would stop by and say hello. As for Champion Lighting, I know some people have had problems but I do all of my equipment business with them and feel that they too are a reputable company. As far as Walters relationship goes with Champion, He is no more than a customer that has gotten excellent service from them. Yes, Gary knows him from the business that he gives Champion but he in no way has any alliance with them. Please leave Walter out of this as you are assuming a lot.

[ReefRatz]

I see nothing, I hear nothing, I know nothing and I speak nothing

Oh.........

and

"Making love out of nothing at all"

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/83799reefRatz.jpg

[dppitone]

The statement is only libel if the person that wrote the offensive statement new it was false, but led the person reading it to believe that it was based on true facts.

[zoltetov]

Yeah, what dppitone said. Also slander is spoken, not written, so again, what dppitone said. Not that this has to do with anything, but hey!

[Treeman]

Would a mod please lock this thread and Reefratz can start a new one! Or all the PA people can give their opinion on the orginal matter while anti-flaming;)

[VinceC]

I agree with Treeman this thread should be locked.

But first before it is locked. I want to apoligize to Reefratz and all FMAS members for this thread going way off topic.

Vince
OceanEncounter.com

[ReefRatz]

Originally posted by VinceC
I agree with Treeman this thread should be locked.

But first before it is locked. I want to apoligize to Reefratz and all FMAS members for this thread going way off topic.

Vince
OceanEncounter.com

Apology Accepted!.
Now we resume back to the original topic!

Anyone have any 250Watts retro kit ? I decided to go with two 250's and two 175's that I already have. That will give me around 800watts or light. Bad choice? please advice me :)
Thanks to all for their opinions and suggestions!

[chrisaggie]

YES, that's way too many bulbs in a 5 foot tank (at least in my opinion)! If you really want a lot of light I would suggest you to just go with 2 400s. Changing out 4 bulbs a year will get a little expensive also.

[dppitone]

I think that is a good mix, inasmuch as you can mix bulb colors. Maybe 20k on the 175w and 10k on the 250s, or someother combination. Being that you already have the 175w, the 250w makes sense. I saw a double 250w retrofit w/ reflector on Ebay for around $250 - I believe it included bulbs. Good deal.

[ReefRatz]

Will a comination of two 175s and two 250s produce more heat and less energy efficient that two 400s? I'm really confused with all the options. And what if I go with one 400 in the middle and 2 175s on either side?. will that look dorky or affect the life?. I would like to use the two 175s that I have now. Thanks everyone for you suggestions!
Aji

[dppitone]

I know someone that uses (2) 175s, (2) 250s, and (2) PC actincts on a 48" long tank, and has very good success. There won't be any clearcut/one way or another answer to your question.

[chrisaggie]

I would guess that 2 175s and 2 250s will produce more heat than 2 400s, but that's only a guess. No matter what you do you can make it work. The advantage to using 4 bulbs is that you will have a more even light disribution and you can mix and match your bulbs (20k and 10k for example). If you go with only 2 250s or 2 400s then it will be cheaper in the long run, has potential to cause less heat, and your canopy will not be so crowded. Do you have a chiller yet reefratz? With all this lighting power you may need one.
~Chris

[ReefRatz]

Chris
No I do not have a chiller.. and I was not planning to get one because its a big ticket item. What if I just put in one 400 in the middle and two 175s on either side?
Thanks
Aji

[dppitone]

Nobodies going to know the answer that. Install what your animals need, and go from there.

[ReefRatz]

Originally posted by dppitone
Nobodies going to know the answer that. Install what your animals need, and go from there.

I guess I just have to experiment with it

[Bullredchaser]

The big concern with sticking a 400 in the middle is if it will melt the brace.If it doesnt it sounds like a good set up to me(2x175 +1x400).In my opinion 250's are alittle week for reaching down 32".2 x400's in the end will be your best solution for power and economy and supplement with actinic VHO's you already have for nicer color.

[chrisaggie]

With the kind of fire power (lighting) that you are talking about heat will be an issue. If you vent the canopy VERY well you may be able to get by without a chiller though. Good luck on your decision!

[Ludwigia73]

Remember, hot air rises, so I'd first recommend two or more un-fanned vents in the very top. Then, I'd recommend a fan in each side, a 4" would be good, one pulling one pushing. In other words, you're better off pulling in air from one side (whichever side gets the coolest air (closer to the a/c vent)), then pushing the hot air out the other. I know someone'll have a different opinion, but everyone has their opinion. I wonder if a 250 over each side, say 10000k, and a 175 along side those, 20000k, would look good? The 175's could come on in the morning, simulating morning, the 175's go off and the 250's come on, then the 175's come on so everything is on.