Hey Guys, I Got MH questions

[jjac]

Hey guys,
After seeing Dave's tank this weekend it planted the MH bug in my head. So bye to the T5 setup that I had picked out! I went to www.hellolights.com and built two different setups using the build it yourself link. This is what I came up with-

250 WATT SETUP

MH_Ballast1: 250W Advance (M58) #61-30250 (+$47)
MH_Ballast2: 250W Advance (M58) #61-30250 (+$47)
MH_Bulb1: 250W 20,000K XM 22-25020(+$65)
MH_Bulb2: 250W 20,000K XM 22-25020(+$65)
MH_Socket1(w/bracket): Standard Mogul #61-61025 (+$8)
MH_Socket2(w/bracket): Standard Mogul #61-61025 (+$8)
Power_Cord1: Grounded Power Cord #66-66001(+$3)
Power_Cord2: Grounded Power Cord #66-66001(+$3)
Reflector: 46.5 Inch #64-64040 (+$30)
VHO_Ballast: 2 Lamp ARO Model 4L #41-41001 (+$135)
VHO_Bulb1: 46.5 Inch URI 110W Super Actinic #10-48-03-V (+$20.95)
VHO_Bulb2: 46.5 Inch URI 110W Super Actinic #10-48-03-V (+$20.95)
Shipping: Overweight (+$14)
476.85


400 WATT SETUP

MH_Ballast1: 400W Advance (M59) #61-30450 (+$53)
MH_Ballast2: 400W Advance (M59) #61-30450 (+$53)
MH_Bulb1: 400W 20,000K XM 23-40020(+$69)
MH_Bulb2: 400W 20,000K XM 23-40020(+$69)
MH_Socket1(w/bracket): Standard Mogul #61-61025 (+$8)
MH_Socket2(w/bracket): Standard Mogul #61-61025 (+$8)
Power_Cord1: Grounded Power Cord #66-66001(+$3)
Power_Cord2: Grounded Power Cord #66-66001(+$3)
Reflector: 46.5 Inch #64-64040 (+$30)
VHO_Ballast: 2 Lamp ARO Model 4L #41-41001 (+$135)
VHO_Bulb1: 46.5 Inch URI 110W Super Actinic #10-48-03-V (+$20.95)
VHO_Bulb2: 46.5 Inch URI 110W Super Actinic #10-48-03-V (+$20.95)
Shipping: Overweight (+$14)
496.85

Using your professional experience, and super wealth of knowledge
Please tell me what I should change. I want to stay around $500 but if it is some that I really need to change I will. If it is easier to explain on the phone give me a call 843-997-5659.

I also want to say thanks for letting me come to Saturdays meeting. It was nice meeting everyone; look forwards to next months meeting.

Thanks
Jimmy

[jjac]

What was the color temp of the bulbs Dave was using? I like the Blue tint.

[jjjimmy]

If I were in your shoes, I would strongly suggest that you look into a DE HQI setup. It shouldn't be much more money for a much better and efficient light setup.

[dvmsn]

I would reccomend going with these reflectors http://www.hellolights.com/methalparref.html , instead of the flat 48 inch reflector you have chosen. They inclue a mogal socket so the price is about the same. You will also need to purchase two metal circuit breaker boxes amd some wire at a hardware store the boxes run about $25.00 a piece so factor that into your decision. This is a raw ballast kit, and multi tap so it is also slightly tricky to wire. I would be glad to help you rig it up when you get it. This site is also the cheapest place to get these parts unless you have a contractor friend who can get them with a contactor's license.

[jjac]

I don't like the flat reflector either. It just came with the kit I am going to make my own. We have some polished stainless steel at work so I was going to make my own. I will also build a box to house the ballasts in. From all that I have picked, will it be a good setup?
Thanks
Jimmy

[bugshop]

Hi Jimmy,
It was a pleasure to meet you also:)

Dave's lights are 20K XMs

I have more of the same M59 Ballasts that Dave is using
PM me if you're interested, I can da a little better than hellolights
and no shipping.

Also If you like the look of Dave's tank you may not need VHOs.
He is only using 2 400w MH.
If you still want to add VHOs I may be able to help with that too.

You can also get the same bulbes that Dave is using for about $57.00.

HTH
Timmy

[Snprhed]

I also agree with Timmy. With 20 K bulbs you really don't need VHO's and you can save yourself about $200
Cory (new guy)

[jjac]

Are the XM's a good quality bulb, and will these ballasts drive the bulbs okay?
Thanks Guys

[bugshop]

XMs havn't been around as long as some others but
they have had good reviews.
That's what Dave, Landon and myself are using
and they work fine with these ballasts.



Timmy

[dvmsn]

The XM's are the only 20K designed to run on the standard american ballasts(PULSE OR PROPE START i CAN'T REMEMBER). Most other 20K's are European. The ballasts they run are slightly diffrent over there. You can buy European style ballasts here, but they are much more expensive.

[BubbaPhish]

JJAC,
WHat aree you planning on keeping as far as corals and fish go? I am assuming you are wanting halides for your 120???? Do You have a canopy? If so how tall is it? Lots of things to consider when doing lighting.
If it is for the 120 and you want SPS then 2-250 watt halides are fine. HQI bulbs are pricey compared to regular Mogul sockets plus the HQI bulbs have to be UV sheilded by glass so you don't nuke the corals with UV radiation.
I looked at Hello Lights and priced a dual metal halide setup as a retrofit for about $445. That included 2 electronic 250 watt ballast , reflectors with sockets, all power wires including grounded power cords,4" fan, and 2- 250watt 20k XM bulbs. It comes out a little cheaper than PFO but the electronic ballast will fire just about any bulb you throw at it and it doesn't use quite as much power as a magnetic one does. With your 120 gal you could probably get away with 175 watt versions but there isn't much price difference and you may want to change up down the road and using the electronic ballast will alow you to go HQI if you wanted.
Using 20k bulbs you woudn't really need any supplementation with blue or actinic bulbs. Also wouldn't need it with a nice 14k bulb either but XM has gotten real popular for a good bulb with a small price.
PFO has a good rep too, if you don't have a canopy I might roll with them to get everthing in a fixture. In my experience, fixtures waste alot of light hanging over the tank that could be better directed down into the tank when enclosed into a canopy. Not to mention the PIA it can be sometimes to set up and hang a big fixture over your tank.
My new tank is a 90gal and I am having a custom built split-top canopy that is 12" tall above that tank made. In fact I was in Columbia today to finalize the design and they ordered it before I left the store.
Good luck and keep us pposted.

Kevin

[jjac]

Hey guys thanks for all of the input. My canopy is not tall enough now. I will tear it apart and make it bigger. As far as what I want to keep, I'm not really sure but I want to make sure that I have enough lighting for anything that catches my eye. My tank is 24"s deep, so will the 250w be strong enough to penetrate that deep. I want to get at least 2 vho's to run for part of the day while i'm gone. Maybe have the MH's come on around noon or so. I just do not like the fact of having them hot a$$ bulbs running when I'm not home. I use to work for a large sign company back home and ocassionaly had to change out 1000w mh while they were still on. Had to wear 2 pairs of welding gloves!

All I want are the ballasts,bulbs and sockets. I don't care for those reflectors to much.

Timmy- I will keep you in mind before I get some ballasts.

Kevin- What are you paying for this canopy? I can probably do it cheaper. Woodworking is my thing!

[BubbaPhish]

JJAC,
The canopy isn't that much. In the neighborhood of $125 out the door for a 12" tall split-top, stained and made of oak. Not too bad since I priced the oak the other supplies and iit was close to that, by the time you factor in labor. Worth the hassle to let them do it. I also ordered a stand today as well and it was just a little over $200. Total around $350 or so, give or take. Very nice work these guys do. Sometimes it is best to pay someone a buck or two to do something. I don't mind building but I hate staining something, and sanding. My least favorite building activities include sanding, staining, painting, and polyurethaning/varnishing. Guess I wouldn't cut it as a finish carpenter:)

The 250 watt halides would be plenty to keep anything you would want to keep especially when teamed up with vho's. Actually you could get by with just vho's on your tank if you keep the SPS up higher, and then no need for the halides.

Kevin

[jjac]

Thanks for all the help! If any of you ever need helping hand with anything just let me know and I will be there.

That goes to you to Timmy, if you need help loading up for the move let me know.

Jimmy

[H2OLUVSME]

Jimmy,
IMO the 250 watters look a little different than the 400s. you could come and look at the color of my 250s before you purchase if you wish. i have 250w 20k XMs. i do think that 250s would be enough for you, but with the difference being $20 (from your first post) i would go with the 400s. i have the least experience of all of these guys as far as MH goes though. i do know more is better in most cases, and lighting is not somewhere you want to slack. if you went with 400s you could successfully keep any thing pretty much anywhere in your tank (with proper parameters of course :p).

[dvmsn]

I agree with Landon. I personally like the color on the 400 better myself. Better to much than not enough.

[bugshop]

Originally posted by dvmsn
I agree with Landon. I personally like the color on the 400 better myself. Better to much than not enough.

Meeee Tooo:D

Timmy

[BubbaPhish]

If you go with 400 watt lights get some good fans going, to keep things cool. That much heat could turn your tank into an easy bake oven.... LOL:)

[jjac]

Cool! 400 it is.
Thanks for all the input!
Jimmy

[UnderwaterExotic]

Are your guys coral growing good and keeping good coloration with xm 20,000k bulbs, do you supplement white with vho's?

[H2OLUVSME]

Dave has no supplementation with his 400 watters. i have 4 110w VHOs (3 actinic, and 1 actinic white) with 2 - 250s. i cant speak for Dave's growth but mine has increased with the switch over. i havent had them but 2 weeks, but i can see an increase in the growth rates of the SPS. i was allready getting good growth from the softies with the VHO.

[dvmsn]

Compared to 10k's its definately slow. If I had the space in my canopy I would do 10k with supplemental actinic.

[H2OLUVSME]

Originally posted by H2OLUVSME
Dave has no supplementation with his 400 watters. i have 4 110w VHOs (3 actinic, and 1 actinic white) with 2 - 250s. i cant speak for Dave's growth but mine has increased with the switch over. i havent had them but 2 weeks, but i can see an increase in the growth rates of the SPS. i was allready getting good growth from the softies with the VHO.

i must clarify something here. i have better growth with 20k XMs than i did with VHO only. i dont want to give the impression that i got more out of 20k compared to other temp bulbs.

[UnderwaterExotic]

Thats what i am asking too, are 10,000 better with Vho or are 20,000 better? I hope you dont mind jjac!

[bugshop]

I Have 10k 400w XMs
I don't plan on running them till after the move.
But I would say the 10ks will give you better growth.
It is my understanding that the lower the K value the better the growth and the corals don't care about the blue. That is why I decided to go with the 10Ks and I'll add VHOs for color.

Timmy