Bangger babies, what should I do?

[Drewman]

I asked this on another board, but I figure I would ask the experts also, thanks.

OK everyone, this is a real milestone, at least for me...I can see babies in the mouth of my male banggai! After over 1 and a half years he has finally carried eggs to term. Now I have to make some decisions. Mainly, what to do with them. I figure I have 3 choices. I can (1)Put them in a 10 gallon tank with an airstone, macros, sponge filter & LR. (2)Put them in a breeders net in the main tank. (3)Put them in the refugium. (4)Split the babies up and do each one.

Each one has its high and low points. If I put them in the 10 gal I have to acclimate and I don't know how risky that is with babies. If I put them in the breeders net I can't put in an urchin and they wouldn't feel as secure. If I put them in the refugium they could get sucked back into the display and meet with sudden death, or in the refugium could be attacked by bad isopods (yes they are still in th refugium, just not in the display)

So what do you think I should do? I've got a batch of baby brine shrimp going and it should be ready by this time tomorrow. Wish me luck! I'll take pics!

Drew

[Guy]

Hi Drew,

I strongly recommend the 10 gallon tank option. They will acclimate quickly, especially if you do a 100% water swap with the display tank just before putting them in.

If I were in the exact same situation (I'm there often ;)) I would wait until the day before the due date, catch the male while he's sleeping and place him in the 10 gallon tank.

Make sure the air bubbles are big, like just an open airline. Baby Banggai have been known to strike air bubbles and swallow them. This doesn't really harm them directly, but they float and can't eat well until they pass the bubble. They also exert a lot of energy trying to swim instead of just hovering.

In my rearing tanks I use a 1/4" tubing to plump to the refugium and another tube to the sump. This provides a constant supply of 'pods from the refugium and automatic water changes.

[FMarini]

Hi:
So I'm torn on this one....
On one hand I did all my growouts in 10gal tanks (please read my 97 reefs.org article), and all my babies did fine. You just have to ensure high water quality and high food density.
On the other hand, I have many friends who have been quite successful w/ putting the babies in refugiums w/ very high sand bed infauna and the fry grow at twice the rate as my fry in a 10gal growout tank did. If in fact your refugium is isolated w/ a good sand bed, and NO other hunting creatures (like cleaner shrimp, small fish, or any crawling invert). Then the water quality issues and surplus foods are all a benefit.
So let me ask you.....
what is you refugium like and do you have a 10gal breeders setup ready to roll?
do you have BBS bubbling away rigth now???
frank

[Drewman]

My refugium is a 30 gal rubbermaid tub with around 15 gallons of water in it. Very low flow with no hunting animals. The only catch is, it probably has some Cirolanid Isopods in it. But I was thinking, I don't think the isopods would attack such small prey, they seem to leave my smaller fish (gobies etc) alone. I don't know. I have bbs hatching and am setting up a 10 gal just in case. Another question, can I substitute some LR from the display in place of a sponge filter if I do the 10 gallon? I dont' have a spnge filter seeded as of right now. Thanks to both of you for your help!

Drew

[afss]

I don't like the idea of putting them in my refugium/ sump as that is where i have all my pump etc... not sure how they would fair against the currents etc.

I thought about putting them in a seperate breeder net in the main tank. in fact i did this with the first batch.. they did fine for the first 4 days or so. I then had to go on vacation and gave them to a fellow reefer who continued to keep them in the breeder net. Within a week or so almost half were gone, eventually all died even after moving them to a larger tank. We think the problem was the type of food we were using, the frequency of feeding also. I also think that the cramping in the net helped cause some stress etc.

I thought about a seperate 10 gallon tank with the sponge filter, but was worried about continually changing water parameters.

What I ended up doing was taking a 10 gallon tank and drilling 3 1/2 inch holes in the back near the top. I placed this tank about mid way btw my main tank and the sump. I then used a small 60 GPH
pump(adjustable, and i adjusted it to about half flow) to pump water from the main tank to the 10 gallon. I got fittings for a sprinkler system at HD (the push on type). They are a bit large on the out side diameter for the 1/2 inch holes so i had to sand them down a bit to get them in the holes. I then siliconed them in place. I then took the line from the pump and put it to the middle hole/connection. I then put water line (also from HD) from the 1rst and 3rd hole and put them to my sump. Now I took two old film canisters. You know the plastic cases that film comes in. I drilled a hole in the bottom of them so that they would slid over the two outlet lines inside the tank. I then took an old pair of my wifes nylons and cut out a couple of swaths and elasticted them over the open tops of the canisters.
Now in esscens what you have is a 10 gallon tank with a (whatever size your main tank is) refugium/filter. No worries about water parameters etc.
The only problem with this set up is you have to make sure to clean the nylon that is over the canisteres atleast once every day or two. If not they will start to clog up and you will empty onto the floor. As long as you remember to clean the nylon it works great.

I am now in the process of setting up a second 10 gallon which will sit below the first 10 gallon but above my sump so i can run it inline from the tank to the first, to the second, to the sump. Eventually i plan on having 4 10 gallons plumbed inline.

BTW I got the half inch glass bit at HD for 8 dollars or so. It is time consuming, and a PITA, but it does work as long as you take your time.

Scott

[Drewman]

Thanks for the idea, that sounds like something I have always had in mind, I will definitely look into it. But as for right now, I am still undecided. However I think I am just going to go with a seperate 10 gal tank and do 2 or gal water changes everyday. Hopefully I will get babies soon, wish me luck!

[Drewman]

Well, some of the babues are now out and have taken a liking to my black urchin. I counted around 10 or so and am expecting more. Unfortunately, even though I started my bbs hatchery over 24 hours ago the bbs still haven't hatched! How long can the cards go without eating? I have been trying to suck up some copepods from the refugium and them basting them near the banggers but I doubt that is anywhere near enough food. If the bbs still haven't hatched by tomorrow morning I will temporarily move the cards to my refugium until my bbs production gets going. These guys are the greatest!

Drew

[FMarini]

Drewman:
great photo...
ideally the banggers should be feed from the minute they are released. They have already consumed their yolk sacs and most likly have not eaten for a day or so...
W/ that said, I would expect that w/in three days they wil start dropping from lack of food. One intermediate food you can try is frozen babybrine (sallys), its purely a stopgap method, and not a long term solution. Guys Prawn eggs or fish roe might also work in a pinch.
So why hasn't your BBS hatched yet? is you salinity to high? or th eggs bad
frank

[Drewman]

I am going for bad eggs. They were all I had when I couldn't get to a LFS and were a relic from when I raised fw fish. A few years old. However I started a batch with new eggs last night so I should have some soon. What do you think about moving them to the refugium for the day and letting them eat whatever they can find. There are quite a bit of pods in there. Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.
http://wsphotofews.excite.com/040/RZ/G1/bw/Ya16831.jpg
http://wsphotofews.excite.com/039/gK/T7/Tf/Yb36296.jpg
http://wsphotofews.excite.com/040/yG/RB/6F/XP81368.jpg
http://wsphotofews.excite.com/039/oh/F9/3m/Z133730.jpg

Drew

[grizz]

ok, I am in the same position, I have had my cards for about 2 years, always aborted the breed, now after I moved my tank and set it up w/a bit more concern for the cards, the male has carriedto full term. Today is day 21... I have a breeder net in the display with some calurpa from the refugium... I have 2 gallons of bbs enriched w/ 1 ml of selcon each... now here is the kicker.. no babies released yet... I cant see any eyes peering out, but the cards are in a 110 display reef w/2 damsels, yellow tang, and a maroon clown.... what/when/and how is the best way to get the babies out of the tank an into the net... when released, where do they usually go?

[FMarini]

Drewman:
Killer photos...as you know If you can i would love copies of those...part of my fee for information =^)
Your growout tank is perfect. Just get new BS eggs and start the BBS. Personally i found the Sally "hatch pack" to give the best yeilds. They are more expensive, but essentiually you add one package to 1Litre of water and add air. i had almost 100% hatch from them. Too easy in my opinion. Each pack was good for 1 week of feedings

Grizz--
your best bet is to capture the male when hes sleeping. Look back a few posts for a post from "GUY" he has his "catch them while their sleeping" technique well described. Males will hold the eggs/fry for anywhewre from 18-28days. If you don't see eyeballs yet, then your most likely a week away.
You grow out tank also sounds perfect, and as i mentioned to Drewman, my fee for service is great photos posted to my forum.
Good luck
frank

[Drewman]

Thanks for all your help Frank. And sure you can have the photos, what do you need me to do?

[grizz]

here is a question on my growout tank.. I bought a 29 gal. tank about a year and 1/2 ago and then my card started to abort every breed, so It slowly got a sand bed, lots of l/r...and then the aptasia set in.. I have quite a bit of it in this tank.. will this hurt these little bangers?

[Drewman]

I looked in my refugium (has a lot of aiptasia) and I was wondering the eaxt same thing. Although, baby banggai sometimes seek shelter in anemones so I don't know if they would be hurt by them or not.

:confused:
Drew

[Drewman]

Well, I'm an idiot. It turns out I have probably had bbs for a while. i jsut didn't realize it. Some friends told me that I probably was missing them cause they are so small, they were right. Oh well. My baby banggai are fat and happy now after being fed. And I need to go out, it's the last Saturday of 2001! Thanks to everybody in this forum, I appreciate the help! I will keep you updated.:D

Drew

[grizz]

still waiting..... I hopeI dont miss the big release! Another question as I wait around.. I have 2 soda bottles of bbs boiling now.. have been for about 3 days now... I have fed selcon to them... should I just feed them to the aquarium and start new ones... will the bbs going for so long get to big for the bangers or should I just wait it out.. maybe feed some more selcon to the bbs? (all this parenting stuff... so many questions, hopefully so many babies!)