What The $#&*!!!!!

[tomterreefic]

Going thru the normal routine yesterday morning and I noticed that neither my purple firefish or yellow watchman goby were waiting to be fed. Didn't think much of it because I was a few minutes early and the lights had only been on for 5-10 minutes. I drop a couple of mysid shrimp in for the crabs and shrimp and went to work. When I came home, all of my corals had retracted to point of bleaching and no fish in sight. So I immediately began going down thie list of possilblities. All powerheads working, heater working (79F), Ph (8.2-8.3), Ammonia (0), Nitrite(0), Nitrate(about 20-where it's always been though), dKH(10), Ca(480) and salinity(here's the iffy part-Hydrometer read 1.021*refractometer read 1.026) and protien skimmer skimming like crazy. I began digging thru the tank and found my 2 green clown gobies, my yellow watchman and my purple firefish all dead. Here's what's baffling me though; all of my cleaner shrimp, peppermint shrimp, hermit crabs, snails and cucumber are fine. In an emergency effort I dripped about a gallon of saltwater into the tank to bring the salinity back up (according to the hydrometer). I took the most retracted corals and moved them into a frag tank. I dropped a new carbon filter into the filter box and sat back and tried to forget everything for awhile( so I wouldn't keep fooling around in the tank). This morning I noticed that some of the polyps appeared to be trying to come back out. Inverts still active as ever. Skimmer seemed to be calming down as well. I haven't added anything chemical wise. No new fish. I have added a few pieces of coral, but not a ton at once. Just 2-3 pieces a week. I was growing some razor caulerpa in my HOB filter box in an effort to make (you'll love this-'nano HOB refugium') I removed the caulerpa when I put the carbon filter in. I do 20% water changes each week and top off every night. And this all seemed to have happened overnight. Almost like a 24 hour virus that humans get. Comes in, hits hard and leaves just as quick (or so it seems as of this morning). I haven't made it home from work yet so I don't know what's happened today. Has anyone seen this before? Give me some ideas please.:eek:

[chad508]

do you have a ground prob in the tank. if not check the tank for stray volts

[tomterreefic]

Chad- I understand leakage current and ground resistance. That should affect the inverts as well as the fish and corals though. The shrimp, crabs and snails are fine. That's what's confusing me. I'll check the leakage current and ground resistance tonight anyway. Thanks.

Any other thoughts out there? Maybe one of the moderators can copy this over to the reef discussion forum? See what they say as well.

[phishguy78]

damn tom sounds like afine mess your in checking to current is a good idea lets us know what turns up man

[bugshop]

Is it possible that a foreign substance got into the tank?
Like air freshener or maybe hand soap or lotion?

Timmy

[mylittleocean]

Could the cucumber be the cause? I know a sea apple will put out toxins that will kill fish. It does not harm shrimp, worms and such. Corals will retract but come back the next day. Will cucumber do the same thing?
Run alot of carbom.

[tomterreefic]

Originally posted by bugshop
Is it possible that a foreign substance got into the tank?
Like air freshener or maybe hand soap or lotion?

Timmy

The thought has crossed my mind. I'm very particular about rinsing(no soap) my hands thoroughly under hot water before I work in the tank. I even rinse before working in the other tank. But yes that has been a thought. That's why I put the carbon filter in to try and absord anything funky.

[tomterreefic]

Originally posted by mylittleocean
Could the cucumber be the cause?

How could it? I'm serious, I don't know. Enlighten me please. It's been in there for about 2 months with no problems. He and the shrimp and snails are doing fine (as of this morning.)

[tomterreefic]

Originally posted by phishguy78
damn tom sounds like afine mess your in checking to current is a good idea lets us know what turns up man

The luxury of working on medical electronics. I got test equipment I don't even know how to use.:D

[bugshop]

I hope you figure it out.

Keep us posted.

Timmy

[mylittleocean]

Its a defence tatic that sea apples have. I believe cucumbers do the same thing but I am not sure.

[tomterreefic]

mylittleocean- sorry, I just read your entire post. Sounds like you're asking the same 'how could it?' question I asked you. Interesting thought about the sea apples. may be worth a little research.

[mylittleocean]

I had the same thing you describe happen to me. The sea apple was the culprit. Sea Apples and cucumbers are in the same family so it could be. I look up some info on cucumbers too and get back with you.

[tomterreefic]

Thanks

[tomterreefic]

Well, I've about 30 minutes to get home before the lights turn off. It'll take that long. I'll update tomorrow. Thanks for the ideas.

[dvmsn]

The heater could have turned off and than started working again? With all of the fish dead that quickly I would alsowonder about a quick oxagen drop. I would most strongly suspect a chemical problem, either internal (cucumber or the very common caluerpa crash) or external like a cleaning fluid. I found a quarter in my tank once. Have you checked all of you internal pumps to make sure they are all working and not compromised?

[tomterreefic]

Update- Stray voltage is present , about 1 volt. But, current leakage is only about 29 microamps, which is nothing. I'm going to look into a ground probe for good measure. As of this morning, most corals seem to be slowly regaining color. My skimmer has returned to normal skimming. My zoos are slowly reopening as well. All inverts were eagerly awaiting food this morning. I have an orange monti. cap that doesn't seem to doesn't seem to be coloring up though. It looks like it was dipped in white paint and then had a few orange sprinkles thrown at it. I just got this piece about amonth ago and it was stressed from the word go. It was bleached a little at the base from being fragged and finally regained full color last weekend. I'm hoping it'll find a way to pull through, but who knows. Still bummed about the fish. I had the YWG for over a year and the purple firefish for about 6 months. I haven't had a chance to read up on the cucumber emitting some sort of toxin. Has anyone else seen or read anything?
Thanks


Dave- All of the powerheads are blowing just fine. Temp was also a thought. But it was right at 79F. The heater is only about 2-3 months old. I run a heater rated for larger tank so it doesn't have to work as hard to keep the tank temp stable. I had a handful of caulerpa in my HOB filter box with a small PC light over the top, sort of a ghetto refugium. Since I began running it, I noticed that the algae on the glass was beginning to disappear. So I figured the refugium was working. The idea of an O2 drop crossed my mind also. So I pulled all of the caulerpa out when I put a carbon filter in. But, the inverts are fine. Do they require less O2?

[H2OLUVSME]

just another thought on the heater. from what ive read most malfunctions are overheating not underheating. what kind of heater is it? maybe throw a post in the equipment forum and see if any one has had trouble with those. im up for a little search so ill try and look into the cuke theory.

[H2OLUVSME]

well i didnt find anything real specific. in Julian Spring's book he says this:

"Harmed by pump intakes or pverflow drains. Injured animals may release mild or potent toxins, harmful to fish."

of course it says more but this is the only thing of relevance in there. this is stated about the genus Holothuria and Colochirus. i dont really know much else, but that sounds pretty bad. did it look injured at all?

[chad508]

another thing about the heaters. it would be best to use two small heaters instead of one large. if a small one does not shut off it is less likely to overheat the tank, and if one goes out the other will keep the temp from dropping to far. this may not be the problem but i just wanted to share my thoughts on heaters

[tomterreefic]

Update- All of my corals are regaining their color. Even the orange cap has more color tonight, not much but more. I did a search on cucumber toxins and found one thread in Dr. Ron's forum that basically said that cukes can emit toxins when injured. So I went on a cuke hunt, and found that the cuke has a small abrasion to it's head end. My guess is that it dislodged a chunk of LR and it hit the cuke in the head. As a natural defense it released the toxin. That would explain the skimmer going crazy and everything seeming to calm down after the addition of a carbon filter. The abrasion appears to be in the healing process already and the corals seem to coming back from the edge. I had rearranged a couple of pieces of LR a few night ago and may inadvertently injured the cuke myself (I'm leaning towards this because I've seen the cuke wriggle in/out of some tight spots with no troubles. So I'm going to let everything settle over the weekend. I'm going to get a ground probe tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find Sunday afternoon when I get home.
Thanks for all the ideas.