Random Questions from a newb

[lazycharlie]

Because of the weather on saturday I didnt get to go bother Oceans Floor with my questions, so i decieded to post some of them here.

First, I should probably introduce myself and my tank. I've been in the greenville area for about 5 years, from myrtle beach before that. Been keeping FW fish most of my life, I generally look for systems that regulate themselves w/o much imput from me. I've also been lurking these forums since they started, but never hav anything to add because i know so little about SW. My first SW tank started last November but has grown significantly with small monthly additions. I currently have a 20gal SW tank with very little equipment and hardy livestock.

Equipment
120watt lights
2 20gal undewaterfilter w/heater (I use these to promote bacteria, waterflow, add some gases, and regulate temp)

Livestock
1 lawnmower blenny(the pride of my tank)
~10 hermit crabs(blue-legged, red-legged, zebra) these are constantly breeding and fighting so i can never keep an accurate count.
2 peppermint shrimp
1 giant turbo snail
2 medium sized marble snail
a small yellow polyp colony
a small mushroom colony
a small zoanthid colony
a beautiful "Clemson Orange" sponge
50 lbs of life rock
about 2" sand bed
a little bit of calupara(thinned out twice a week it grows so fast)


My long term goal is to be able to sustain a healthy mandarin, but i know that they require a lot of copapods. So I have been researching sump/refugium options. Tell me what you think of this idea.

I have a 45gal tall tank that i was considering using. I thought i should start with a deep sand bed, some chaetamorpha, a rubble zone of sea shells and as much live rock as I can afford (probably not more that 15 lbs)

So at long last... some questions from a newb
what is the best way to get the copapods from the refugium to the tank? Will enough of them transfer if i use refugium water in my water transfers?

Do refugiums need a filter? will an old fashioned whisper be sufficient?

I hope someone actually wants to read all this.....

[Jamesurq]

Welcome!!! to the GRS and Reef Central. If you haven't joined the GRS - please do so!

Sounds like a great idea adding the 45 gallon refugium. I assume you don't have a sump - so it's gonna be a choice of three options:

A: as you said - just take some water from the fuge to feed the tank. : Less than ideal and goes against your "not much input from me" rule. :)

B: Use the 45 gallon as a sump/refugium and overflow your current tank into it. : Basically either drill an overflow hole in the 20 gallon - or get a reliable hang on back overflow and put a powerhead (or submersible pump) in the 45 gallon tank to flow water back up to the 20 gallon.

C: Mount the 45 gallon above the 20 gallon - and overflow the 45 gallon to the 20. The 20 effectively becomes the sump.


Method C will give you the best pod populations in the main tank - but is probably difficult to do as far as placing the tank.

Method A isn't worth it.

Method B I would say is your best bet. You could do it very basically with just a hang on back overflow and a powerhead in the 45 - or go at it more hardcore and have both the 45 and the 20 drilled.

By the way - I have a diamond drillbit and bulkheads that you're welcome to use. I'll even help you with it - but if you crack the tank, that's not my problem... ya dig...:)

Let me know if you need me to come over and help you visualize the setup. If you want too - you can come over and see what I have running. It's not much in the pretty department but it's certainly complex...

That offer stands for anyone in the area. Just shoot me a PM and we can hook up...

James (the on-call reefer) :)

[lazycharlie]

Here's an interesting concept I came across while researching.. has anyone ever tried a "Dark Refugium" ?

[Jamesurq]

yeah - I actually ran a "dark refugium" - a cryptic zone refugium is what I was calling it. Basically filter feeders and pods. Sponges, feather dusters, etc...

Some really cool stuff grows in there. I had probably 5 or 6 different colored sponges and all sorts of other wierd stuff.

[lazycharlie]

first off, I would like to thank you for the offer of help and the advice. I have a new set of questions, If you get a minute... tell me what you think.


Do you have any tips for establishing a good one? I was thinking of using pvp pipe w/ some filter floss to grow some pods in and dilling lots of holes so that that i can maintain good water flow. Then to transfer the pods all i have to do to transfer the pods is pull one pipe out at a time and hang it from the back of the tank.

I dont want to drill these tanks, that would be a risky change and lead to an overflow hazzard.

But aside from lots of rubble and some good live rock/sand is anything else needed in a good pod farm? Some web sites have reccomended a good filter, others have suggested just powerheads and some dont want any water movement at all. i've seen lots of web sites mention dark refugiums, but never one that was written for a beginner. Any good reccomended readings?

[Jamesurq]

that PVC pipe is an interesting thought. Drilling tanks doesn't necessarily lead to an overflow hazzard if you set it up right. Sizing the hole and the pump isn't hard to do and if done right it's pretty fool proof.

The other thing to consider for pods is feeding them. When you come over on Saturday I'll give you a sample of the Golden Pearls that I have (3 sizes). A VERY small amount of this stuff daily will help your pod populations increase. Having something for them to eat is key.

Do you have algae buildup on the front glass? IE: how many days does it take before the front glass is very green and needs to be cleaned?

If the answer is every day - you have great phytoplankton levels and dosing with DT's isn't really necessary. If the answer is once a week you might want to consider adding a little live phyto for a while.

[lazycharlie]

I would love to try the golden pearls. Its pretty clear now that I am Definitely not dosing enough. I never even thought that it might be a good idea to feed the algae :).

Are golden pearls better than phytoplex? Is it even the same stuff?
Edit: I can see that that phytoplex is smaller, liquid and made out of different things. But will the gps work better? differently?

[Jamesurq]

phytoplex is basically the same as DT's but dead, not live.

Golden pearls isn't algae at all - it's basically ground up brineshrimp and some lipids and aminos and stuff. I'll show you the ingredients. They use it to feed larve. Pods like it a whole lot.

The smallest size 5-50 microns is probably the size that copepods will eat more than the other sizes (I'm guessing - I don't know for sure). The other sizes are more visable - the largest is big enough for the small fish to go for.

[lazycharlie]

That explains it well, thanks!

[lazycharlie]

Does maxi-jet make the best powerheads? Im rethinking my waterflow and thinking about picking up two 1200s. My tank has the same foot print as a standard 20 gallon, only its over twice as tall, where would the best placement for these be?

[Jamesurq]

Yeah - the maxis are good reliable powerheads.

With a tall tank like that I would put them near the bottom in the back corners and point them up and towards the middle of the front glass.

This should also give you some ripples on the surface which is always good to have.

[lazycharlie]

Will it hurt it to bury it in a pod pile? Will it hurt the pods?

[Jamesurq]

It'll make it harder to get to the screen that you'll need to clean off periodically - but no it won't hurt.

Will it hurt the pods? - Not sure it's gonna do too much damage. It'll probably chop up a few here and there.

[lazycharlie]

filthy little buggers will probably just eat their chopped up friends.

[Jamesurq]

your fish will sit by the powerhead output waiting for their next meal.:)

[lazycharlie]

:) those fish are so smart! (I apply pretty fish to a different standard)

[lazycharlie]

ok, i've started my sump, its got 10lbs of live rock, 20lbs of base rock, lots of rubble, some live sand two powerheads, and a cheap skimmer. Now I am thinking I should switch things up a little. What if i switched it around and went with a 45gal display and 20gal sump? How long should I wait for the 10lbs of live rock to cycle the tank?

[Jamesurq]

I like that idea.

The answer is "as long as it takes" No simple answer.

You'll need to test ammonia and nitrites and wait until neither are higher than zero.

[lazycharlie]

Thats not too bad then, Ill probably wait for 3 months to make sure any fish parasites die also.. but thats testing my patience.

[lazycharlie]

This morning, I tested the water in the new tank. WOW i wished i hadnt, I almost called in sick to do a water change.... I've never seen Nitrites/Nitrates that bad before. Almost no amonia though so hopefully nothing in the lr/ls will die on me.

[lazycharlie]

I saw my first copepod! WEEE! big for a lil booger too

[Jamesurq]

good deal about the copepod! Did you end up picking up that refugium in Spartanburg that I told you about?

[lazycharlie]

I sent him an email, but no response so far. I hope it works out though.