Confused about Ocean Rider...

[seasquirt]

Why won't they give you the species name of the horses they're selling you? They say it's "proprietary information", but it really makes me not want to trust them. I wouldn't want to purchase an animal if the seller won't tell me exactly what it is!

[timandmichelle]

There has been a lot of discussion about this very question. It has been said that they are hybrids, it has been said that the mustangs are kuda, the sunburst are barbouri, the gigantus is erectus, and the brazileros are kudas, and many other hypothesis have been brought up, but no one actually knows for sure.
I personally have never ordered from them, but have heard that they are reputable dealers. People really enjoy the horses and have very good luck with them. They are hardier than wild caught and are already eating frozen, so that is the plus side.
I prefer to know exactly the type of horse I have in my tank, which is part of the reason I haven't ordered from them. I guess it's kind of personal choice.

As to why they are so secretive about the breeds, I have no idea.
As far as trusting them, like I said before, I don't know of anyone who has had problems with the quality or health of the horses or their arrive alive/stay alive guarantee. Also, if you are looking to breed their horses and sell or trade them, they don't allow that without their written permission.

I guess in the end, it's up to you whether you need to know the species of your horse, or not.
HTH with your decision whether you should trust them or not. Sorry I kinda rambled for a while! :rolleyes:

Michelle

[ranaman]

Most of us figure it this way
Mustangs- Hippocampus erectus
Giganate- Hippocampus ingens
Brazileros- Hippocampus reidi
Moi-Olios- Hippocampus fisheri
H. erectus comes in diferent color morps such as red, and yellow. The key is they say they are intraspecific hybrids rather interspecific hybrid. So most likely they are true species.

[seasquirt]

Well, if they were only selling cross-species hybrids, then they wouldn't have to worry TOO much about customers breeding their stock and selling the offspring, would they?

I'll probably get H. reidi horses if I set up a tank, but I have a source lined up already.

[ranaman]

Personally I wonder how they can offer "pregnant males" when they don't guarantee sex.
You can get some nice horses from them though, but sometimes I think they have trouble keeping up with demand.
Some day someone might check with the hawaii wildlife people. They have to have a record of what species she brought into the state.

[seasquirt]

Well, they can probably offer pregnant males if the horse is DEFINITELY pregnant (that way they can identify that it is indeed a male). Then I suppose the toss-up is with specimens that are not obviously pregnant.

You're right, someone could check with the Hawaiian wildlife people... I wonder if "just anyone" can get access to that info?

[ranaman]

If you haven't yet visited http://www.seahorse.org yet you should since we all like to "discuss" some of OR practitices from time to time. Someone claimed to have been shipped a non pregnant pregnant male.
I must say you can't buy CB seahorses with colors (red-yellow) from any other source, and the colored ones are fantastic.
Flying Fish Express has been selling CB kudas and barbouri that are nice fish. If could afford a chiller they also have potbellies and whitei.

[seasquirt]

Well, I am going to ask my roommate's boss about species identification. She interns in the seahorse lab at the National Aquarium in Baltimore, and her boss is the curator of the current featured seahorse exhibit. That should give us some answers!

As for OR, I doubt I would support a business with such questionable policies, even if their products ARE primo. I'd rather go without seahorses. I think it's irresponsible to ship seahorses all over the States, especially to areas where they're NOT indigenous, and not tell the buy exactly what he or she is getting.

[JennM]

I'll add to ranaman's list that "Sunbursts" are H. erectus too, just a different colour morph, and often when placed together, mustangs and sunbursts all turn the same shade...

I bought 4 horses from them last year, they were sick and I lost them all within 4 weeks.

I'm keeping WC H. reidi, since May, that are breeding, and have 3 babies that are 4 weeks old today. He's had 8 live broods, one miscarriage, the early broods were underdeveloped, but now *I* am figuring out how to sustain the babies, and I hope to be able to close the loop.

I think OR had great service in the beginning, but as demand grows, they aren't as able to give as mature a horse, and as good service as they did in the beginning. Too bad.

I do not plan to deal with them again.

Jenn

[bucaru]

Seaquirt,

I wholeheartedly agree that it makes no sense for OR to be so paranoid and secretive about the animals they raise and sell. They do, however, produce quality seahorses. They are healthy and pest/disease free. I have ordered twice and purchased an OR at my lfs. So actually I have purchased 3 times. I don't like their policies either but I have to support their talent and animal husbandry. They know what they're doing!

I wish they would get on the bandwagon for proper binomial nomenclature. For example: Their Mustang and Sunburst should be - Hippocampus erectus 'Mustang' and Hippocampus erectus 'Sunburst' respectively. (although they are not true clones of a species, they are color selections within a specie). Their new Brazileros should be properly named - Hippocampus reidi 'Brazileros'. These of course are trade names of Ocean Rider.

;)

[dogf]

Way back about 10 years ago when I had horses, there was no/little info around. But the one thing I thought I remembered learning was that color in a horse was subject to it's hitch. In other words, are seahorses not chamelions(sp?)
Now doing the read,read,read thing to get back into it and I see a lot of posts referring to color specific species.
Was I wrong back then?
thx, dogf

[bucaru]

Dogf,

You probably weren't wrong that long ago. I have been in the hobby many years but only a little over 1 year with seahorses. I always avoided seahorses due to their survival rates in captivity. Captive breeders such as Ocean Rider and David & Tracy Warland have made captive bred and raised seahorses available to us that eat frozen mysis.

The color issue with Ocean Rider is that they have, over time, selected color morphs, if you will, within a specie line and bred those color traits into a named, intraspecific specie color selection. You are right in that seahorses are chameleon-like but these named color selections tend to keep their colors in the spectrum of their namesake. Mustangs tend to be black, brown and gray with light highlights. My Sunburst have been predominately yellow and orange for the most part. I have never kept FireReds so can't give you a real example there.

On a side note, OR is now offering variegated colors from what they have developed through continued color-morphism. I have one of these amazing looking animals. Mine is predominately black with white areas like the Gateway Holstein cow colors. I call him Heffer after the Rocko male(bull) charater in the cartoon. :rolleyes: I am not actually sure what specie mine might be though.

I guess we've come a long way baby! ;)