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squidsqueezer
12/06/2001, 08:14 PM
Hello, dammit.

About two weeks ago, I walked into the local gym and overheard two fellows having a discussion about something that they kept referring to (albeit in hushed and overawed tones) as "Shrimp Louie." It was a relatively short conversation and went something like this:

"Shrimp Louie, man...he FU**ING ROCKS, dude."

"Way, dude."

"Did you see him whack that fish, bro? He slew it, dude. It was E-V-I-L."

"Way, dude."

"And the way he FU**ING looks at you, dude. It's like he knows something you don't...know what I'm saying, bro?"

"Way, dude."

"Dude, he FU**ING CHOPPED TODD IN THE FINGER, DUDE! DID YOU SEE HIS FU**ING FINGER?!?"

"Dude, I saw it. It was tore up, dude."

"The shrimp is evil, dude."

"Way."


Obviously, after listening in to this exchange, my curiousity was peaked.

I walked over, introduced myself, and asked them what in the hell they were talking about. They told me, with a fascinated gleam in their eyes.

To make a painfully long story quite a bit shorter, I'm sitting here in the late afternoon, desperately typing this plea for reassurance, with a six-gallon eclipse (sans shrimp for now) bubbling away on the desk next to me.

Help.

What in the hell am i doing?

I am no aquariast. I may not have even spelled it right.

So far, I'm in for a lot of money, and no one will give me the straight information on what to do. I have read a few web-pages on the mantis shrimp hobby, and there seems to be a good deal of disagrement there, too. Let me throw you a few facts (as I have been introduced to them), and if any of you are willing to help me out, I will be very grateful.

Fish Store Guy #1: Sells me a six gallon tank for $60, Live sand for $3 per pound ($30), Live rock for $5 per pound ($15), Rio 50GPM powerhead for $30, and a shrimp that I haven't even seen yet (it's coming in on Monday) for $20. He tells me that NOTHING can live in the tank with this monstrosity, becasue the shrimp will immediately eviscerate it and I will be out the money. I leave the store feeling slightly shagged, really broke, and not entirely certain that I've done the right thing, so I cruise over to...

Fish Store Guy #2: He tells me that FSG#1 doesn't know what in the hell he's talking about. This thing, he tells me, will crack through my eclipse 6 with a flick of it's tiny claws, leaving me with a ruined rug and the world's most perpetually ****ed off invertebrate lose in the house and hungry for my entrails. He tells me I need a 20gal tank, no rocks, no live sand (because live sand has bristle worms), and a really good air-pump/stone. I say "thanks for the advice" and leave to hunt for more information, which leads me to...

Fish Store Guy #3: This guy tells me that I will need a "bigger setup" to keep the shrimp alive for very long, and that it will probably break out of the tank (as in...smash through it) in the first day. He also says that I will need a starfish or something in the tank in order to help stir it up (?!?), and that live sand is a good idea because bristle worms will clean up the miscelaneous chunks of victim after the shrimp has murdered its dinner.

So, off to...

Fish Store Guy #4: I sincerely suspect that FSG#4 is a refugee from some war-torn country in Asia that only a handful of very old cartographers have ever heard of. He stood about 4'5" tall, 75lbs, and talked with such a heavy accent that I could only understand every seventh word or so. HE, however, ACTUALLY HAD A MANTIS SHRIMP IN HIS STORE!!! So, he may have known wherefrom he spoke. Not a lot of good that did me, however, since I couldn't understand a goddam thing he said.

It probably took at least ten minutes of him shouting "OH YOOWON SLIMP?! EYENAH SLIMP! DEEMEE KAH BOON KAH (I still haven't figured this bit out yet)! CUMSEE CUMSEE SLIMP!" before I understood that he had a shrimp that he wanted to show me somewhere in the store. It took quite a time, and quite an interrogation, for him to actually find out where it was, though. He had to call out his family(?) and question them one by one (all eleven of them) until the very last fellow in the line stepped up and said "EYEGAH POONAH SLIMP, HE COT FEENGAH!! ROOK! ROOK MEYE FEENGAH! SLIMP EEN PUMPNOW! SLIMP EEN PUMP"

With that, the proprietor opened up a door beneath a huge reef-tank, revealing a large aquarium full of peculiar looking blue balls (a filter of some sort?). Since it was dark down there, he deftly procured his cigarette lighter and knelt down on all fours to...find the slimp.

After about another ten minutes of seemingly futile searching and repeatedly burning his fingers, there was a loud THWACK and the proprietor jumped back shouting, "SLIMP, SLIMP!!! YOOSEE SLIMP!!"

In truth, I didn't see the fu**ing slimp. I didn't have the heart to tell him that, however. I couldn't stand the thought of him down there for another half-hour or so, flicking his goddamned bic and mumbling profanities in Micronesian.

So here I sit. Potentially inappropriate tank and a slimp on the way in three days. Help. Please.

Thanks.

-squidsqueezer
red.guard@verizon.net

Fishotch
12/06/2001, 11:24 PM
i'm hardly an expert here, infact, i know only a little more than you, if any, but hopefully the real experts will be able to tell you that the stomatapod woln't smash through your tank. and that you should have a reasonable set up going.

teckt
12/07/2001, 12:02 AM
well here's what i have to say. I've kept this relativly large (61/2in) odontodactylus scyallarus for about a year now in a 12 gallon eclipse system. H's doing fine. I'd say give your bug a Deep sand bed of at least 3 inches, depending on the species the sand grade varies, some spearer mantis prefer a large grade subsatrate like crushed coral with some LS mixed. As for a mantis shrimp breaking the glass in of your tank it is highly unlikely it will happen. I had this bad *** in a 20 gal glass at first and he struck the glass with extreme force a few times, never hard enough to crack or break the glass and he is BIG!
Don't be too worried about how hard it will be to keep a mantis alive and thrive, it's a relativly easy thing, in my opinion (being a reefer) mantis are very easily kept if the enviroment they are put in how it would be for them in nature. If your mantis you are getting is of the smasher family of stompopods then i would advise you to arrage the rock you are getting so that the shrimp has a cave or den, with an entrance and an exit. I've heard about alot of people using 2 pieces of pvc pipe angled under the sand. I'm just not a fan of putting unatural things in my tanks. I'd say for the most part mantis shrimp are very hardy creatures and somewhat hard to kill. They come in alive on live rock propagated for sale that sometimes has been sitting on a boat dock for days in the sun. Mantis are ausome little creatures i hope you enjoy the hobby. Let me know what species you get and i may be able to help you with some more info.

Angel*Fish
12/07/2001, 10:00 AM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Too funny!!

Good luck with your new pet .... BTW - not sure if they need heaters... I have one in w/my mantis and I'm thinking about protecting it from potential smashes -- can't imagine that one would actually break the tank - but I'm no expert::idea: I just realized!! The previous statement ("no expert") qualifies me to work @ LFS!..If I ever need a job...:lol: BTW, welcome to the wonderful world of LFS!

squidsqueezer
12/07/2001, 04:59 PM
Thnaks for taking the time to read my petty ramblings, and thanks even more for the tips. I feel quite a bit better now.


<pause>
...okay, I just glanced over and watched a long, pink thread slide out of a tiny hole in one of my rocks and casually slither its way around the backside. I think I've just confirmed the presence of bristle worms in my tank. Oh, well...
<unpause>

As I was saying, thanks very much for the reassurance. I know that it was premature of me to type the prior post, since I've not even been formally introduced to my slimp yet. Thanks for tolerating my ignorance with such grace.

Also, thanks for the tip on the heater. That's the one item that I've been thinking about putting into the tank that none of the fish-store guys seem keen on selling me. They all keep telling me that the shrimp will be fine at "room temperature" (room temperature being a very vague and completely unquantifiable temperature that, when confronted, none of them will dare put an actual number to).

I do have a ten-gallon fresh water tank across the room that used to vary wildly before I dropped a heater into it. I mean, room temp can have quite a span of interpretation depending upon whether or not I decide to leave the windows open and air out my reeking hell-hole of a home. Especially now that it's winter.

By the way, that's both a lovely and completely horrifying monstrosity of a mantis, Teckt. Congratulations on having been able to rear such a specimen. I do hope that mine will be considerably smaller, however (Please, God...hear me on this one). Ever since I've seen Virgil I've been having premonitions that the LFS guy is going to have some kind of twisted, man-eating, twenty-seven pound Lobstrosity waiting for me on monday. Waiting, I imagine, aggravated and tense, in a very, very thin plastic baggie. Yeah.

I am much heartened to hear of the creature's heartiness, however. I have been known to kill all sorts of creatures with my "black thumb," and would feel terribly if my slimp fell victim to it as well.

I did take the time to read most of the other posts in the forum last night (after posting my own plea, of course). I think I gained much knowledge from that endeavor. Without a doubt, I should have done that well before I posted my own plaintive whining for you to slog through, here.

I will be posting again once I pick up my lobstrosity. I'm eager to find out as much detail about my slimp as I can.

One last question for now...if you'll indulge me, that is. What is a protein skimmer and why would I need one? That's it. Thnaks. Bye.


-squidsqueezer

Fishotch
12/07/2001, 07:08 PM
a protine skimmer is basicaly a seafoam remover... it removes nutrients and other bad stuff from the water. i don't think most people use them for mantis tanks, but i could be wrong.

"lobstrosity" he he he.

DrkShadow
12/11/2001, 10:31 PM
ROFL

I enjoyed the post. I'm not into the mantis slimps but your story sure have me a nice laugh. Gotta love the LFS's! At least they knew what a mantis slimp was =)

Ananda
12/12/2001, 08:19 PM
ROTFLMAO....
You realize, of course, that it sounds like you've already named your mantis, or at least partly named it.... Slimp, the Lobstrosity.... :-)
Keep us posted!

moviegeek
12/20/2001, 01:37 AM
Squidsqueezer --

In case you haven't figured it out yet, Gonodactylus is the only P.h.D-certified "authority" on mantis shrimp here. The rest of us are more are less learning as we go. Some have kept mantis for a few years, others for a few months.

Look through the archives here, then head on over to http://www.blueboard.com/mantis/

I am "one of those" who helped perpetuate fear about keeping a mantis in a glass tank. My mantis is currently living in a glass tank. I still think that 1/8" glass used in most 10 gallon tanks is a risky venture, but the 3/8" thick glass hasn't failed. Yet :-)

Feel free to post as many questions as you have here. You will get many different opinions, but generally advice from people with some experience keeping animals is better than advice from people who have only heard about animals.

You do need a heater for your tank. "Room temperature" is bad advice, no getting around that. Mantis WILL break the glass on glass heaters (as well as glass thermometers -- I've lost two), so you need a way to isolate the heater from the tank. An easy way would be a hang on back power filter like an Aquaclear 200-300 with all media removed and the heater inside. Some protein skimmers have room for heaters as well. A third heating option would be to install a bulkhead and use a sump. A fourth heating option would be to try one of the newish titanium heaters on the market, although I've never personally used one.

As you can see, there are many options. Add to that the many opinions you will encounter in a public forum, and its easy to see how people can get frustrated/misinformed. I'd recommend trying to educate yourself to the best of your ability, rather than following a cookbook-style recipe from a fish store owner. You will be more successful, have fewer frustrations, and get more enjoyment out of the hobby in the long run.

At some point you should pick up a basic book on saltwater aquariums, to understand some of the basic chemistry and biology at work in your tank. Ron Shimek's "The Coral Reef Aquarium" is excellent and costs around $15. It's available at Barnes and Noble.

In my opinion, a six gallon tank is too small for a 6" mantis. I think 10 gallons is pushing it, and 15 gallons is ok. I used to have my mantis in a 29 gallon tank, and that was my favorite setup to date. Some of the members of this board have been successful at keeping this size mantis in a six gallon tank for several years. There are several reasons why bigger is better. A few of these include slower temperature fluctuations, slower salinity increases as water evaporates, and less chance of a complete failure should some food rot or something die. In my experience, the bigger the tank, the more active the mantis and the greater variety of behavior.

If you have questions ask away! We are here to help.

rldavis
12/20/2001, 02:26 PM
For the sake of simplicity I would recommend the titanium heater. We have one in our 125gallon reef and we absolutely love it. It beats any glass heater that I've ever tried (and that's a lot), plus the price is right. The best thing is the thermostat controller is on the plug, so you can change or adjust the temp without getting your hands wet or thumped. :D Plus no coralline to overgrow the temp dial.
Just my $.02

Becky

BTW, I loved your story. It had me rolling and in tears. You aren't by any chance a comedian are you?

teckt
12/21/2001, 07:18 AM
moviegeek im not sure if your reference to a 6' mantis being in a six gallon tank is of my bug posted above? Though if it is you will notice that my 61/2 mantis is in a eclipse 12 gallon and has ample room. His den is well constructed and large. I was using a heater but i decided to take it out becouse of the tank being close to my bedroom window. So during daylight hours the tank temp would get a bit too warm. I maintain a good temp during the day with a single 13 W PC enclosed in the eclipse hood. I would most definatly recomend a heater but in my case i don't think it's needed.

<teckt>