Tank Set Up

[pappygonefishin2002]

Need a little help here, I have the new tank ready to go , drilled and tapped with 2 overflows and 1- 3/4 return. Im running a tidepool sump which I like for the ease of changing, and adding poly and carbon filters! I would like to set the skimmer ahead of this system but then I would have to pump water up to the sump. I see that most of you build your own sumps but that you dont have the filtration that I have with the tidepool. Im hoping to set up this system so I can have softies, and sps with as little maintenance as possible. I would like to also have a refugium on the new system but I want it all to fit under the 48" cabinet! Question is would you suggest removing the tidepool and building a sump, if so do you have a prefilter built for your sumps. Seems to me without a pre filter the skimmer would always be getting clogged, totally lost ,and open to any and all suggestions!I want this one set up right this time around. I still have an area of about 10" by 16" of free space with my existing tidepool set up that I could use for the skimmer and the return pump, and use the tidepool for the refugium. Then Id probably have trouble with air bubbles in the return line or not ......... HELP

Cliff

[MattG]

id suggest just building a new sump. i had a tidepool II at one time and there was hardely any room left after the skimmer, heater, return pump.

if you really want to keep your tidepool you can drill it for a bulkhead and add on another container (either tupperware or glass tank) to add water volume/fuge. i tried this but decided i still needed more room.

if you want an easy way to run carbon just pick up or build a chemical filter they work great and are cheap!

as far as the poly filter you can build a spot in the sump that holds the polyfilters/filterfloss/or whatever else you want. Just place it between the baffles and the water will be forced through it.

also if you are worried about a prefilter you can always slap a filter sock on the drain line. If you do this id suggest cleaning it frequently (2 times a week or more)

however if you are looking to keep the maintenance as low as possible id suggest no mechanical filtration.

[firefish2020]

Do "you" use any filtration at all Matt? Or is it all through your fuge?

[pappygonefishin2002]

I never realized a fuge could be that significant as to no prefilter at all . If you suggest building a sump then thats the way I will go! Gonna be a major job, Patty might throw me outta the house before this ones over........hmmmmmmm I do have a new tent
Ok I have a new sump , I use the saved water from the 55 with the same rock, and substrate will this tank go through the cycle process again or can I just put the fish and coral back in with no problem. Thanks , for the help Matt

[LowCel]

When I switched my 55 gallon over to my 90 I didn't have any problems with cycling. I save every drop of water I had though.

Could you give me a reminder on what size tank you are going with?

[pappygonefishin2002]

40 gallon 48" by 13" Thats great news I was worried about that part the most

[coralreefer]

Originally posted by firefish2020
Do "you" use any filtration at all Matt? Or is it all through your fuge?

I know this was directed to Matt but I've never run any reef tank with mechanical filtration only live rock...no fuge either :)

[Curtis1]

Pappy, once again, your buddy Curt is to the rescue. READ MY LIPS !!! I have the sump that you need !!!! It is drilled for an external pump, but that could be sealed off with a piece of glass and some silicone. It is a 30 gal. AGA Tank, will take a monster skimmer, up to an ASM G#3 has bubble trap and fuge section. You may have to cut a stile out of your stand to get it in there, or you may have to drop it in from the top, or come in from behind. LMK if you are interested. Also, stop everything on your hood/lights. Are you setting up a 55 Gal ???? Wouldn't you rather have a 75 ???? You NEED to PM me ASAP !!!! Who's your DADDY !!

[pappygonefishin2002]

Hey dad , I only have a 10" width in the cabinet, is that sump over 10" wide , and can we discuss an allowance lol

[firefish2020]

I think the natural approach is best as well. I get asked all the time why our tank does so well and I have to say it has to be the LR. Theres at leasts 200 Lb in there now. But most people dont want that much rock, I think double the tank volume per pound is whats needed unless you have a fuge. I use a skimmer and a HOB but have to say the HOB is just there for media. The BP skimmer does a great job but I attribute most filtration to the rock itself.

[pappygonefishin2002]

I thought everyone run some type of filtration on thier systems , you can sure learn alot on here. When I look at the poly filter on removal , its hard to believe any system could do without it.....thats some nasty looking stuff!

[MattG]

i have about 160 lbs of rock for bio filtration. I run a euroreef skimmer and i have the fuge. The fuge has a DSB with assorted macros (most of them are hardely growing now)...... with only one fish in the tank that is fed solely nori the nutrient levels in the tank are very low and can hardly support the macro in the fuge. this is perfectly fine with me though and i wouldnt have it any other way :D

i have recently been running a canister filter for a little bit of mechanical filtration. since i reused my rock and im barebottom now the rock is shedding a lot of gunk. I personally think mechanical filtration is a great thing as long as you are dedicated enough to change it out frequently. if you arent going to clean it regularly its best left out IMO.

its amazing what live rock and a good skimmer can do. no need for any other fancy filters :D

[MattG]

pappy:
forgot when you say you are using poly filters do you mean an actual polyfilter made by polybiomarine or just filter floss?

if its the polybiomarine filter where are you getting them?

[Curtis1]

Cliff, I agree with Matt, LR in massive quantities !!! In my 75gal, I have around 150 lbs. + a 3-4" DSB, the only other filter of any kind is a sponge prefilter in the overflow. I clean it out every other day. I have a big storage bin 40 gal, that I am using as a temp sump right now. I haven't been running a skimmer for 3 wks now !!!! I am running 2 pumps, a Rio 2100 and a Mag 7 both combined w/ plumbing are at an estimated 550 gph. The sump is over 10" wide. But,,, I have a couple extra stands setting around here,,,,, I took care of ya before, didn't I ????

[pappygonefishin2002]

Matt I was just talking about filter floss to catch some of the debris before it goes through the skimmer.
And Curtis I mean (dad) Im going to see how much apex wants to cut me some glass and try to make me a nice sump like 30 " long if its not to much ,hes really reasonable! Ill keep ya in mind if that doesnt pan out!
Thanks everybody for the help!
I now have a plan.... Thanks Cliff

[LowCel]

Cliff, since you are doing a 40 gallon tank I thought you might want to check this link out. It is for the January, 2004 tank of the month. It is a 40 gallon tank.

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/totm/index.htm

[pappygonefishin2002]

WOW..... NICE TANK, kinda looks like mine, well the sand does anyway, LOL I think that will be the light set up Ill be using also,Im taking off today to try and finish up the sump. It is looking good, I have added a biowheel that will operate off the water flow from the return, no power will be necessary for operation! Im now a little confused on the baffles in the sump for the fuge area, I know you have a picture on here somewhere, hopefully I will get this thing together today
Thanks Bruce

[LowCel]

Sounds like a plan. Just so you know bio-wheels are not recommended for salt tanks. They are thought to cause nitrates.

Here's a pretty good picture of my sump, has all the measurements on it.
http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/000_1409.jpg

[pappygonefishin2002]

bummer Ive already installed it , I thought they eliminated amonia and nitrates on contact guess I dont haft to use it though, Ill just leave the wheel off, guess I was way out in left field on that one! I showed matt the plan and he never mentioned it...oh well, thats the picture I was looking for!

Thanks a lot

[pappygonefishin2002]

Are u skimming , ahead or behind your return?

[LowCel]

Here is a picture of it in action. Water comes in to the left and the return pump is on the right.

http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/tempa8a.jpg

[pappygonefishin2002]

Thank Ya , Thank Ya , Thank Ya
Good to go, Appreciate the help
Back to work now
Thanks Cliff

[1package]

Pappy, I just built a 55g sump/fuge, plan on installing it this weekend - way bigger job than I thought. I will be removing a 29 drilled (another option). I looked a Lowcels design, although did not use the egg crate under the baffle for support and alignment -good idea. I stumbled (meaning do not remember who or how) onto a site called Melev's Reef. This guy builds sumps and refugiums - great site. I modified his Model G. This model has an intake for floss and carbon - both of which I use, followed by a skimmer compartment, through a series of baffles to the center section which is used as a return. I had mine drilled in the center near the bottom and setup a 17 inch wall with overflows on the other side for a fuge that will drain back to the center section.

All versions have pros and cons. The pros (that I liked) in this version. Large fuge area, mine is 20 inches across, compartment for floss - I change it weekly. I like the floss because when I baste the rock or clean hair alge from the overflows it gets caught. I also sometime find dead shrimp or small critter remains. The other advantage to the fuge on the side, I pump water in from the center so even if the water level drops due to evaporation, it does not drop from this section. Another PRO - due to my cabinet design 6 ft. long the last 20 inches (the fuge) is almost in the center of my cabinet for easy viewing and access. I am planning to use it more for a *** tank than anything else. All softies, I am converting to LPS up top. Picked up a huge elegance, blastmusa (spl.?), and a candy cane with many heads this week to go with my 2 large torches and other candy cane.

Any advice on lighting the frag tank? I picked up a 65w PC and I think I have a 40w strip. Should this be enough - someone?

[1package]

I think I left out the "r" in "frag" tank in the thread above and the site must have substituted "***" instead. For the record I do not have a "***" tank or a frag without the "r" tank - it is a "frag" tank that I am setting up and looking for the lighting advice.

[coralreefer]

Well I just spit pepsi on the screen with that one.
don't ya love auto censors :rolleyes:

[pappygonefishin2002]

1 package , I think you will be alright with the 2 lights for softies, although it depends on the depth of your sump I was running 1 55 HO on a 10" depth frag tank everything did ok but I didnt have much growth till I put another 55 high output on it . I also found the Melevs site before I finished the sump. I liked what he did with the gravel box bubble trap on the return so I installed one on mine Im going to try no filtration to see how it does. I ended up with about a 10x12 fuge area in the center also. So what kinda light should I put on the fuge, somewhere on here someone just used a grow light from lowes Is that good enough for the refugium?

[LowCel]

A lot of people use those lights pappy. I just use a 55 watt pc on mine. (That shocks me constantly.)

[pappygonefishin2002]

I think you need and electrician, and rubber boots lol

[firefish2020]

On a 55 gal. in order to produce a notable growth rate I suggest and use 260 watt 50/50s PCs. If you can use the current USA bulbs they seem to have a better growth response in my experiments.

Elegance corals have been having lots of problems in the past few years.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=310425&highlight=elegance+coral+project

I would try placing this one in the sand, burry it's base as this is its natural state in nature from what I hear and just wait and see what happens. Caulastrea, and euphillia are really easy, you want growth in them, target feed them and add calcium.

[LowCel]

Clif, you have to check this auction out. It is a guy that I consider to be a friend of mine. He is the owner of the site www.reefnut.com . Anyway, he is selling these cheap.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4335341941&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT

[pappygonefishin2002]

Thanks Bruce , for the heads up, but Im going with a complete set up! 2 175 MHs with 2 96 watt vhos is $573.00 ...with UV lens, 2nd fan is $32.00 with thermal speed control. I also get choice on fluorescents VHOs or PCs ...what do u suggest here? They also want $95.00 for electronic ballast, whats the difference, .... will 175 watt system sustain sps or should I go 250 watts, and is this a reasonable price or should I look elsewhere?
Questions , Questions , Questions Ive been taking 2 tablespoons of stress zyme everyday and its not helping!

Thanks Cliff

[LowCel]

That price looks great to me. Are the MH's single end or double end? As for going with 250's instead of 175's that depends on if you plan to upgrade in the future. Also how much more are 175's? If they aren't much more then go for them.

I have never really understood the ballast thing. I believe that electronic may actually push your lights a little more though and take a little less electricity doing so. Someone else will chime in on this though to tell me if I'm right or just full of it. ;)

As for pc's or vho's go with the vho's. Or better yet ask if they can switch them out for T5's. :) PC's are actually near the bottom of the list when it comes to actinics for people keeping sps corals. For example, Matt is just running two actinic vho's on his 90 (plus his mh's) and he is very happy with them.

If you do it right this light is going to last you a while. For the minimal price differences I would suggest getting the best you can afford, it will save you money down the road. Trust me! I've gone through four 48" lights so far. I finally own one that I am very happy with.

[pappygonefishin2002]

Yep, I wanna make this a 1 time investment before I hafta start paying alimony

Thanks
ps: Ill try not to bother ya anymore
Thanks for the patience, time,
aggravation, quick responses,and
all the help! Ill have ya a nice frag
by next meeting

[LowCel]

LOL, not bothering me at all. Much better to ask questions now than later.

Lights are definately cheaper than allimony. It's amazing what it costs to pay a woman to not live with you.

[MattG]

electronic ballasts will underdrive the bulb. you will get less par but your bulb life will be longer, less electrical usage, no hum, most electronics will fire any bulb. the downfall is the slightly lost par and the increase in price

magnetics are cheaper, drive the bulb harder but you have to match the bulb to ballast either a euro lamp (ansi m137 ballast for 175 watters) or american lamp (ansi m57 ballast).

if you know what bulb you want to run and are sure you will be happy with it then a magnetic will work great for you. if you want to keep your options completely open go electronic. im using electronic icecaps and love them.

i would go 175 watters in a tank less then 24" deep. your SPS should will do great and you wont have so much light that you cook some of your less light demanding creatures. Also 175 watt bulbs are quite a bit cheaper then 250's.

as far as actinic go VHO you wont regret it. I prefer VHO by far to PC (its a personal opinion though). ive had both and wont use pc's again. if you have an option for t-5 then definetly give them a thought (ive never used them but they look nice on bruces tank)

if you have other questions feel free to ask not a bother at all. hopefully we can answer them :D

[LowCel]

See, told you someone that knew what they were talking about would come along. :) My wife always tells me that I'm full of it, this is just more proof.

[pappygonefishin2002]

Ok (electronic ballasts), 2 -175 halides , with 2 96 watt VHO 03s, and 2 fans... absolutely dont want to hear any hummmmmmmm from lights! I know what to look for now so I can look around a little. Will be switching tanks out Thursday, Ill be glad when this is all over and Im sure Patty will,she hasnt shot me.....(YET).... What a mess LOL

Thanks All , Cliff

[LowCel]

Here ya go clif.

Some pics of clif's tank.
http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/clifphoto24.jpg
http://gallery.consumerreview.com/webcrossing/images/clifphoto25.jpg