skimmer in a sump that's a refugium?

[freelancing]

Well, I finally bit the bullet and bought a Euro-Reef CS-1 skimmer for my tank. I went to Lowe's last night and helped to further stimulate the economy w/ tons of PVC elbows, connectors and pipes as I intend on putting the sump on the other side of the wall in my garage.

I got a clear 28 gal. rubbermaid container to be my sump and it's perfect size for fitting on the baker's rack and for allowing the big skimmer to fit inside.

Should I put sand and rocks in my sump just like in my tank? I'm assuming calurpa should go in there for photosynthesis stuff, but I'm otherwise clueless. :confused: From the varying articles I've read on-line, it seems that most folks make their refugium and sumps as separate systems... can it be one-in-the-same or is this less efficient?

What kind of animals should I put in here (if any)?http://www.reefcentral.com/smilies/fish.gif

What kind of lighting should I have for the sump? Obviously, something too hot will melt the plastic... I'm not even sure how to set up lights over this thing so they won't fall in, etc.:confused:

Since the skimmer cup is higher than the rim of the container, I'm assuming that it's a no-brainer that there will be no lid to this thing (although I could always cut a slot for the skimmer in the lid)... am I right? If so, what's the rate of evaporation for this kind of thing? The water in my tank only evaporates at the rate of (my guess) about 5 gallons per month... which is fine with me until I set up an RO/DI thing in my garage as well.

Thanks in advance,
-ShellEy

[alf3482]

Should I put sand and rocks in my sump just like in my tank?

Yes

I'm assuming calurpa should go in there

Yep!

it seems that most folks make their refugium and sumps as separate systems... can it be one-in-the-same or is this less efficient?

yes it can be done. But a refugium should be run around 5 times the system & the sump should run 10 times the system so i would have to say it is less efficient. But i do run a system this way and it has ran fine. I also have a system running the sump and refugium seprate and there is a lot more life in this system's refugium.

What kind of lighting should I have for the sump?

Plain old No lights will work fine i ahve a 10 gal with 20watts and a 22 gal with 80watts. And things are doing fine.HTH

[freelancing]

Whoa. I am super-confused. (big shock, I know). :)

yes it can be done. But a refugium should be run around 5 times the system & the sump should run 10 times the system so i would have to say it is less efficient. But i do run a system this way and it has ran fine. I also have a system running the sump and refugium seprate and there is a lot more life in this system's refugium.

I'm not sure what this means... 5 times the system? Huh? :confused:

If I do put caluerpa (sp?), rocks and sand in my sump, what goes in my refugium? How big should the refugium be? Where in the chain of gizmos does the separate refugium go? Tank-sump-refugium, or tank-refugium-sump?

Plain old No lights will work fine i ahve a 10 gal with 20watts and a 22 gal with 80watts. And things are doing fine.

What does "No" stand for? I'm assuming that these are flourescents... but you know what happens when you assume. ;) Do you just lay the bulbs across the plastic rubbermaid container, or is there a threat of fire, melting or other bad mojo? :eek1:

Do I put animals in the refugium, but not the sump or do I put critters in both? If so, what should I put in there? Is there a period in which the sump and/or refugium need to "cycle" like the tank before putting in any critters?

Thanks,
-ShellEy

[alf3482]

I'm not sure what this means... 5 times the system? Huh?

ok 55 gal tank would run about 275gph turn over of the water for the refugium, and a sump would run 550gph on the return pump.
If I do put caluerpa (sp?), rocks and sand in my sump, what goes in my refugium?

put sand and rock in your refugium and the skimmer in the sump.

How big should the refugium be?

any size you want.

Where in the chain of gizmos does the separate refugium go? Tank-sump-refugium, or tank-refugium-sump?

it's up to you. but i run tank and split the overflow to both tanks and the refugium spils over into the sump and then returns to the tank.

What does "No" stand for?

Normal out put (standard flourescents)

Do you just lay the bulbs across the plastic rubbermaid container, or is there a threat of fire, melting or other bad mojo?

make some thing to support it with couple of 2x4 boards maybe

Do I put animals in the refugium, but not the sump or do I put critters in both? If so, what should I put in there? Is there a period in which the sump and/or refugium need to "cycle" like the tank before putting in any critters?

Yes, worms , coppapods etc.. Put only the skimmer in the sump no critter. the refugium is for your small critters (worms coppapods etc have a place for no preditors)
And no it will not cycle as long as you use cured rock. think of it as a water change without taking out any old water.
HTH

[freelancing]

ok 55 gal tank would run about 275gph turn over of the water for the refugium, and a sump would run 550gph on the return pump.

it's up to you. but i run tank and split the overflow to both tanks and the refugium spils over into the sump and then returns to the tank.

More confusion. Let me see if I understand what you're saying here. It sounds like you're saying that you have a 55gal. show tank w/ water going from the tank into the refugium at the rate of 275gal per hour and then overflow from the refugium goes into the sump at the same rate... which is essentially saying that water is leaving the tank at 275gph and the return to the tank is at 550gph.

If this is the case... how do you keep the tank from overflowing... sounds like more is coming in than is leaving.:confused: I'm obviously missing a step somewhere.

This is what I'm picturing in my mind:

Pipe coming from the wall (tank on the other side of the wall) down to a refugium via siphon (I'm not sure how much lower the refugium should be... is it so many inches below the waterline or so many inches below the entire tank?) or perhaps a pump (more $!) ... then the sump is on a lower shelf and overflow (I guess I need to get an overflow box for the refugium?) is then siphoned or pumped or whatever from the refugium to the sump (which contains only water and the skimmer) and then water is returned via pump (or some other plumbing marvel I don't know about) into the tank. Is this right? I'm beginning to think it would be simpler to have the refugium and the sump as the same animal.

Other than the pump driving the skimmer, how many pumps are involved in this process?

The instructions on the Skimmer say that the venturi and pump in general should never be in direct contact w/ kalkwasser or other chemicals added to the tank. I'd like to eventually get a calcium reactor (although I know absolutely nothing about them other than it's a good way to go in the long run) and stuff set up so that fresh water going into the sump to replace evaporation... already mixed w/ salt, calcium and whatever nutrients are needed. If that stuff (already mixed) is going into the sump (where the skimmer will be located)... will that be kosher?:confused:

Yes, worms , coppapods etc.. Put only the skimmer in the sump no critter. the refugium is for your small critters (worms coppapods etc have a place for no preditors)

Other than just seeding new sand in the refugium w/ a cup or so of sand from my show tank... is there a commercial resource for acquiring copepods and/or worms? Would I put snails in the refugium as well? Is this also a good place to propagate corals?

Someone needs to teach this stuff w/ a corresponding video or something. I learn best via the "point and grunt" method. :)

Thanks,
-Shelley

[alf3482]

Ok the step you missed is that when the water leaves the tank, via over flow, the over flow line is split in to two parts, via a "T", so half the water is going into the ref. and half go's to the sump. I slow the rate of the water leading into the ref. with a gate valve so i can control how much flow is going into the ref. and the rest go's into the sump and the ref. over flows into the sump, givimg 275gph into the ref. and 550gph into the sump, then returns to the tank. (i'll take some pic's of my set up on my 120gal tank so you can see it)

Pipe coming from the wall (tank on the other side of the wall) down to a refugium via siphon (I'm not sure how much lower the refugium should be... is it so many inches below the waterline or so many inches below the entire tank?) or perhaps a pump (more $!) ...

If you use an overflow give it enough down flow to reach the ref. without water slowing down or stopping. If you use a pump it want matter.



then the sump is on a lower shelf and overflow (I guess I need to get an overflow box for the refugium?) is then siphoned or pumped or whatever from the refugium to the sump (which contains only water and the skimmer) and then water is returned via pump (or some other plumbing marvel I don't know about) into the tank. Is this right? I'm beginning to think it would be simpler to have the refugium and the sump as the same animal.

Same concept is same as above. The return on this is simple Pump thru a hose fitted on the end of your pump from the sump and put the other end in the tank, you can use PVC elbows to hook on the top of the tank for the end of the return line.

Other than the pump driving the skimmer, how many pumps are involved in this process?

If you use an overflow from the tank to the ref. & sump using a
"T" and connect the ref. to flow into the sump. Then you will only need one return pump. Rated at 10 times the amont of water volume.

The instructions on the Skimmer say that the venturi and pump in general should never be in direct contact w/ kalkwasser or other chemicals added to the tank. I'd like to eventually get a calcium reactor (although I know absolutely nothing about them other than it's a good way to go in the long run) and stuff set up so that fresh water going into the sump to replace evaporation... already mixed w/ salt, calcium and whatever nutrients are needed. If that stuff (already mixed) is going into the sump (where the skimmer will be located)... will that be kosher?

I have two tanks 125gal & 120gal both have skimmers and i run kalk in both with no problems. So i would have to say no problem.

Other than just seeding new sand in the refugium w/ a cup or so of sand from my show tank... is there a commercial resource for acquiring copepods and/or worms? Would I put snails in the refugium as well? Is this also a good place to propagate corals?

www.ispf.com & www.garf.com both sale infunia kits. ISPF has a 9 for $99.00 mix and match for seeding sand beds. I have snails in mine. well you could if you went with at least pc lights for the ref. but if you grow Macro algea(calurpa) in the ref(which you should) then it would grow all over your corals and block light from getting to them unless you partition one side of the ref. off for corals.

[freelancing]

Robert,

I think I'm getting the concept a little more, but I'm still grey in some areas. If you can post those pictures, I think it will help quite a bit.

Is a "gate valve" something I can get at Lowe's? Is this a PVC item or another material? I already bought a couple of flow turn off knobs in PVC for cutting off the flow if needed... are these the same thing?

ShellEy

[alf3482]

I sent the pic's to your e-mail. The parts you have now are probably the same thing. You want the one's for pvc.

[freelancing]

Robert,

Thanks for the pictures. Yes, you're right... I've got the same exact pieces. I need to ask you some questions about these pictures... I'll follow up w/ an e-mail.

Thanks,
-Shel

[alf3482]

No problem hopfuly they will help.