Ich / QT Question

[NHMarine]

Hello, and great artical. OK I have a question, but first let me give you a little info on what is going on 1st. I have a 75 gal with about 60lbs of L/R and 3 “ of crushed coral. Inhabitants are as follows…….Powder Blue Surgeon, 2 Clowns, 1 Blue Spot Goby. Sand Sifter, Skunk Cleaner, Fire Shrimp, 9 Snails, 10 Hermits.
This tank is 6 Months old and doing very well (except for the Ich).
I have been doing a lot of reading on Ich and have finally decided to take it on. I have a 20 Gal QT tank set up just like yours. I have decided to treat with Copper and actually have started last night (10/11/04). Now my plan is to keep the fish in QT for 4 weeks starting after the last sign of Ich.
The Powder Blue is the only one with Ich and it’s seems to be a mild case. My hope is to break the cycle of Ich in the display tank during this time of QT. My question is, since I removed all the fish can I leave everything else in the tank? Will the Ich cycle still break with the Sand Sifter, Snails, Hermits and cleaner shrimp? The next problem will be maintaining water quality and proper copper levels for the next month, what’s the best way to achieve this?
Thank you for you’re time
Keith

[Steven Pro]

My question is, since I removed all the fish can I leave everything else in the tank?

Yes. Cryptocaryon needs a fish to complete its lifecycle. Without one, it will die out.

Will the Ich cycle still break with the Sand Sifter, Snails, Hermits and cleaner shrimp?

Inverts are safe to leave in the display.

The next problem will be maintaining water quality and proper copper levels for the next month, what’s the best way to achieve this?

First off, I would probably have some well mixed saltwater on hand at all times. That way if things go awry, you are ready to do a water change at a moment's notice. Also, use your test kits to monitor ammonia and nitrite daily, maybe even twice daily. That is going to be the biggest problem if you don't have an established biological filter. Do you have a filter that could be moved from the display to the QT tank?

[NHMarine]

Yes, I have an Aqua Clear 500 sponge that I use in my sump, actually I have two, they have been in there from the start, prior to those I use a 100 micron filter sock.
So where do you reccomend I place this?.......maybe cut it up a little at a time and stuff it in my Whisper 30? or just throw it in the tank and use it like L/R?
Thank you for you're fast response!! you must really watch the boards.
Keith

[Steven Pro]

Jamming both of them inside a Hagen Aquaclear 500 would be my preference. If you can't borrow one or something, I would cut one to fit inside the Whisper filter as good as you can. Additionally, making your own air-driven sponge filter out of one of those Aquaclear foam blocks should not be too hard,
http://www.angelsplus.com/g/lafl1.htm
Cut the Aqualcear foam in half to make two squares more or less. Cut a hole large enough for a lift tube to be inserted halway down into one of your squares (the other square you can cut up to fit into the Whsiper). Add an airstone into the lift tube and an airpump to run the thing and you have a halfway decent sponge filter. The only problem will be it will have a tendency to float. But, I know people who simply Super Glue a piece of glass to the bottom of the sponge to weight it down. Just be careful not to cut yourself.

I am usually online in the mornings, but am not off to work. I should be able to check in this evening if you need more help.

[NHMarine]

Steven, WOW, you were right about how fast the water quality goes down hill. 24 hours after I set up the QT tank with fresh water my Ammonia was 1.0 !!! all else looked good.
I dosed the CopperSafe as recomended by Mardel and tested.................2.0 seems to high imo. So I'm going to do a 75% water change tonight and stuff the Whisper full of that sponge as we discussed.
Man I hope I don't have to do a water change every day for the next 6 Weeks.

[Steven Pro]

Yes, that is why having a cycled biological filter for the quarantine tank is so important.

[NHMarine]

Steve, so I cut up and jammed the whisper 30 with some of my aqua clear sponge and within 24 hours my Nh3 was very high (1.0) my next step is to buy an air pump and insert the tubing into a large square block of the left over sponge.
Question, do you think I'm going to see a difference in my Ammonia? or is it going to be spiking like this every day? I'm sure 1.0 is not good for the fish. What else can I do? a water change every day for the next 6 weeks is just not an option for me.
(I wish you lived here, I would hire you to Q/T em :-)

[Steven Pro]

Hopefully, you can get enough of that sponge material and the beneficial bacteria it is carrying into the QT tank and working for you. Otherwise, you will be battling this for the entire time. You may also want to experiment with ammonia detoxifying additives (things like Amquel and such) or innoculating the QT tank with a bacteria culture like Marineland's Bio-Spira if the foam block you have does not work.

[NHMarine]

Steven Pro, Hey buddy thanks for the info in you're last post, it really helped me. I went from doing 100% water changes every day to 75% twice a week!!
Powder Blue is doing well...........all of his color is still bright, except the black on his face is a little light, (Mood?) other than that eating well and acting normal.
So last night there was no ICH left on him at all, (the other fish did not have it but are in QT with PBT anyway.
So now the countdown starts right? 6 more weeks in QT?
Thanks again, I'll keep you updated.
Keith

[mike9515756]

StevenPro, this question is for you. I bought a really healthy ptb about 1.5 weeks ago and he got ich 3-4 days later but still active. I also noticed that all he ate was mysis. Yesterday i come home and he isn't looking very good, mouth open with a white spot on the mouth...some kind of big ich spot. He only ate 2 mysis and is hiding, not swimming very much. Is there any thing i can do other than qt? I hope he wont die.

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by NHMarine
Steven Pro, Hey buddy thanks for the info in you're last post, it really helped me. I went from doing 100% water changes every day to 75% twice a week!!
Powder Blue is doing well...........all of his color is still bright, except the black on his face is a little light, (Mood?) other than that eating well and acting normal.
So last night there was no ICH left on him at all, (the other fish did not have it but are in QT with PBT anyway.
So now the countdown starts right? 6 more weeks in QT?
Thanks again, I'll keep you updated.
Keith

No, you can't start your countdown just yet. I would not start until after you are done with the manufacturer's recommendation for the copper treatment.

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by mike9515756
StevenPro, this question is for you. I bought a really healthy ptb about 1.5 weeks ago and he got ich 3-4 days later but still active. I also noticed that all he ate was mysis. Yesterday i come home and he isn't looking very good, mouth open with a white spot on the mouth...some kind of big ich spot. He only ate 2 mysis and is hiding, not swimming very much. Is there any thing i can do other than qt? I hope he wont die.

I would recommend you remove all the fish and treat with copper or hyposalinity.

Marine Ich, part 1 (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.htm)

Marine Ich, part 2 (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.htm)

Quarantine (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.htm)

[mike9515756]

i have read these articles. A powder blue will prob not survive in a 30-40g for 6 weeks

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by mike9515756
i have read these articles. A powder blue will prob not survive in a 30-40g for 6 weeks

Why not? As long as the tank has an established biological filter and sufficient water movement and aeration, you should not have a problem.

[mike9515756]

he passed away tonight.

[Steven Pro]

Sorry to hear about that. I hope the rest of your tank does not succumb as well.

[mike9515756]

i hope not, but my other fish look good as usual. I think i will have to wait a while for another ptb. Are purple tangs just as vulnerable.

[Steven Pro]

All Tangs are pretty bad as far as Ich goes, but the various Acanthurus species along with Paracanthurus hepatus are the worst. I would still urge you to quarantine either way.

[mike9515756]

i understand your point. QT is the way to go. Although, i also believe that a healthy fish should survive. Ich is found in their natural habitat and they still manage to live and thrive. Also a ptb could get ich from a ich free tank.

[Steven Pro]

Actually, Cryptocaryon is rare in the wild. It is exactly the close confines of captivity which favors the parasite so strongly over the fish in our aquariums. In the vastness of the open ocean, Cryptocaryon produces hundreds of offspring so that hopefully a few find a host to continue the lifecycle. In aquaria, those hundreds of 'baby' parasites are confined in a relatively small body of water with an unusually large concentration of fish. These circumstances shift the natural relationship towards the parasite.

Also, if the parasite does not exist either in the tank or on the fish in question, the fish can't catch it. It has to be present for a fish to become infected.

[mike9515756]

how did you mount your 2 mag 12 externally, can i see some pics?

[Steven Pro]

Originally posted by mike9515756
how did you mount your 2 mag 12 externally, can i see some pics?

Here you go.

http://reefcentral.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=27490&papass=&sort=1&thecat=500

[mike9515756]

is it possible to mount a mag pump externally even if my sump isn't drilled? i heard it has to be under the water level. I wanted to use a U tube or felxible tubing. Also, what are the dimensions of your returns 1" or 1.5" i heard that if you keep it at 3/4" it will be less powerfull.

[Steven Pro]

is it possible to mount a mag pump externally even if my sump isn't drilled? i heard it has to be under the water level. I wanted to use a U tube or felxible tubing.

While that might work, I don't think I would consider it fool-proof enough to attempt.

Also, what are the dimensions of your returns 1" or 1.5" i heard that if you keep it at 3/4" it will be less powerfull.

1"