Drastic Measures

[vermonter310]

Okay, I couldn't take it anymore!
Since changing to RO/DI water the formerly rust colored algae that covered nearly everything in my tank started to give way in spots to a wine/red colored algae. this stuff is longer and sorta sways in the current. alot of the rust colored stuff still remains. All the sand is (was) red or rusty brown. rocks? almost all rusty brown. Things have not changed for the better since the switch.
Okay so today i couldn't take it any longer. During a water change I siphoned the red and brown stuff off the sand surface. I also replaced the sand that was siphoned off with new sand. I was only able to remove about half of the offending stuff. The tanks all cloudy but I don't care. If this doesn't help rid the tank of this crap I am seriously thinking of moving rock critters and fish to a temporary tank and starting over without sand. Phew.....I feel better. Thanks for listening.

Mike.

[Hedonist]

Gosh darn Mike... sounds kinda frustrating for ya...... also kinda sounds like your tank might be like re-cycling since you treated it this summer for those nasty-*** pods....? At any rate I hope you are not regretting the RO system... at least that helps you control some of what is going into our tank.....

Maybe just wait it out and give those bugs you just got time to mulitply etc....

I have read that if you run a phosphate remover at the beginning of cycling a tank it will solve algae problems ...altho this might be a bacterial thing... cyano or something, it might be wise to run a Phos-remover ? How are your nutrients anyway.... ?

Hang in there Mike... remember good things happen slowly

Denise

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

I think mike needs a bigger tank !! see thread bigger is better ! ask bryan to get u a phosban reactor he has a good one and he got it 4 a special price and he is even getting his buddy JOHN one !! ME !!

[spotfin]

Bryan,
What type of phosphate reactor can you get and what kind of deal?

[cabin]

Mike,
I REALLY sympathize. Endless algae is SO frustrating. Physically removing as you did actually may be a really good approach to turn the tide. Has there been any improvement since? It is all such a mystery as to what works and what doesn't since no two systems are exactly alike. I too, felt that RO water had no effect whatsoever. I started serious daily vacuuming and hand-harvesting and things started to improve. Then I switched to the mud-based refugium and things really cleared up pretty well, but because they were improving before I did that, I don't know if that was a factor, or just a coincidence.

For my 4-5 years of keeping freshwater fish, I battled algae constantly. This Spring I replaced ALL the substrate, dipped the plants in a dilute chlorine mix, cleaned the tank with chlorine (obviously, the fish were living elsewhere for about a month while I did all this). I put it all back together, and this did cure the black algae that I had battled so long. But a cyanobacteria algae took hold. I battled THAT for months, and finally used antibiotic. For 4 months now, that tank has never looked better, it is a wonder, and I knock on wood everytime I look at it, hoping it will last. One variable that changed is I stopped feeding the freshwater tank twice a day and now do it daily. Was that all it took? A frustrating game, for sure. Good luck, and keep us posted.
Wynne

[Ewan]

It's frustrating that the RO/DI isn't producing results, But you can rest assured that your daily input water is not contributing to the problem at hand. At least to a lesser degree. A necessary tool toward to path to an algae-free tank.

At this point, you need to choose a good export method. A well-stocked refugium seems to have a loyal following. Personally, I don't care for the deep sand bed. Under proper conditions, it has the capacity to process nitrogen-based waste products in to free nitrogen, but the phosphates [read: algae fuel] will accumulate over time. This does NOT break down; rather, it accumulates.

For this reason, I don't consider a deep sand bed to be an export of these compounds. It allows a wider margin of error in the earlier stages, but those phosphates simply won't disappear. The idea is to remove the offending compounds. Not to keep poop as a pet.

Me, I use a bare-bottom system with heavy protein skimming. I also change 15-20% weekly. The new bare bottom setup of mine has really given me the upper hand at controlling wastes, and the weekly change of 15% (plus 'overskimming') seems to be enough of an export for my system. It's worth noting that I have one green chromis. :D Not what you would call a heavily-stocked system.

Prior to this method, I used a shallow sand bed, a deep sand bed, and barebottom in the beginning. The barebottom has always suited my system best. I'm not sure why I screwed with it in the first place.

Here's where we can draw on the collective experience of the club:

-Wynne's ecosystem method. Another excellent example of applying an export method. The algae fuel ends up in the macroalgae, and get physically removed from the system through harvesting.

-Denise's algae-free tank uses chaetomorpha (spaghetti algae) and I believe she gained control using phosban (I also use it periodically).

-I believe Bryan uses a plenum. If I'm not mistaken, the plenum area on his system has been setup so that it can be purged; removing any stored nitrogen-based and PO4. Another example of export.

It may be helpful to hear what other folks are doing.

So let's focus on what method would be right for you. Deciding on that is the hard part.

Good luck!
-Rob

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

and we hope we all meet tomorrow !!

[Hedonist]

One thing I want to mention as well is that I measured the total Phos of my seahorse tank at the lab, it measured 0.34 ppm!!!!! Probably from the heavy feeding and possibly from the deep sandbed....okay maybe from my slack on water changes, it has gon to 2x monthly this summer.. that may also be a factor

One would assume at 0.34 ppm, NO3 at about 30ppm, I would have the unwanted algae everywhere?! Yet I do not?????!!!!! So another oddity and proof that all systems are different for whatever reasons.......

I do have some spaghetti as well as a small clump of a red 'kelpish' type macro and several caulerpa sps growing in the SH tank... however I am not harvesting vast ammounts weekly altho I just added a small clump of C prolifera and it grows about 1/2" daily.....Once I add the angel next week some of the algae may disappear, I am not sure. But I am in the process of getting a phosban reactor going as well as properly setting up my skimmer.

Thanks to Wynne, I re-read an artilce about skimmer in FAMA Aug 2004, I am sure I read it before but this time it really gt my atteniton.. my skimmer is not set up for optimum performance... I will post a copy of the highlights of the article in Oct Meet thread later this morning for those who are interesed


Denise

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

well it was a real nice meeting only Problem is there was not enuf people YOUR loss we had a great visit !!

[ME2003]

The first algae could have been diatoms. Silicate removal
helps this. The RO filter removes a lot of this. You can get
a Hi-S RO,if you need more removed. Cyanobacteria sound like
the next algae. I would check your PH. Raising the PH
can remove it over several weeks.
My preference is not to use phosphate or nitrate removers.
Protein skimming and some water changes should allow you to have an algae free tank.

[Hedonist]

What about upping the Salinty a bit..... I run mine about 34-45 ppt... > Not sure if it will help...

dg

[vermonter310]

I am going to raise both slowly over the next several weeks. I would try almost anything at this point.

[ME2003]

A couple of articles on saltwater parameters and raising pH
35 ppt and a pH of 8.2 looks like the recommended values.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-09/rhf/index.htm

I would do one at a time and wait at least 1-2 days between
changes. Setting the salinity may be easier. I would do this first
Changing pH can be done by adding limewater (CaOH)
Limewater should be added slowly dripping it into the water.
You can create your own system with airline tubing and
a plastic airline valve or purchase something like this.
I liked the 2.5 gallon. I placed it on top of the tank and
it dripped into the sump below
http://www.kentmarine.com/html/ad.html
http://www.kentmarine.com/html/adhk.html

[Hedonist]

Mike

I also have to wonder about your PO4 results... according to David Saxby, a speaker at MACNA-there is only 1 test that will accurately measure this compound and that is made by MERC (sp?) I have read previously that PO4 is hard to test for in field kits

If I understand correctly PO4 can be organic or inorganic and portable test kits usuallyonly test for 1, not both.....You can have your PO4 confirmed by NEL for $18 if ya want...

Denise

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

hey it is the early bird poster have a good day at work denise !