Prop Auctions, Your Feed Back Wanted

[dmorel]

PROP as you likely know is an organization that intends to provide interesting corals to the local community. Our original plan was to raise funds to purchase and propagate these corals by collecting a percentage of the price local corals sold for at auctions we would run. Out of the gate, everyone was enthusiastic and enjoyed the heck out of themselves. But, times have changed and recently there has been less than enthusiastic response to the very existence of PROP.
The PROP members really do have an interest in propagating corals and returning them to the local community. Most of the members are experienced reef keepers with a genuine love for the hobby. In recent weeks we have been discussing expanding the scope of the corals we would propagate to broaden the reach of our efforts to more members of the community.

However, we are concerned that the collection of fees from the auction to fund the project are a primary source of some of the recent negativity surrounding PROP.

As such, understanding that without collecting any fees we will be limited in our coral acquisitions the net result of which will be making this an even slower process than it already is, we would like your vote on this poll.

Also, we would very much like to open a dialogue with folks that are interested in the local community. Please feel free to use this thread to discuss any concerns you may have about PROP, and also to make any suggestions you may have about the organization. I beg all of you to offer constructive criticism, but keep the tone civil.

Thanks,
-dm

[joeyf]

It might be confusing... but I would say either collect no fees, or set a limit of 25% up to $12.50 (if my math is correct). Meaning that prop gets 25% on the first $50 per person, that is sold, and anything beyond that is all the sellers. That way prop can have some $$ to acquire new corals, without it seeming like "too much" taken out of peoples $$ made. JMO:)

[AZDesertRat]

It might not be any of my business, but is PROP financially sound at this time? I guess what I mean is do they have the funds to accomplish what they set out to do originally? Are they at a point where the auctions of the the things that are growing out now will bring in enough to purchase more things to farm and keep the process going?
If not do they expect to reach a point where sometime in the future fees would not need to be collected or maybe could be reduced? I don't mind the fees as I think they are going to help promote a hobby which I very much enjoy and to make thing available to me that I might not otherwise be able to afford or even see in this area.
Another possibility is maybe some of the fees could go towards renting a better location, both larger and cooler! These have become so popular the location is just suitable anymore.
And lastly, members of the Desert Marine Society have expressed interest in hosting a PROP auction to help us become a little closer together. I would like to discuss this with PROP and see if we can't make it happen soon.

[dmorel]

Joey,
thanks. That's not a bad idea at all. Hopefully we will get some more responses and see what others think.

AJ,
Prop has some funds in the bank. I don't know the number, but it's reasonable. I think we probably have enough funds to purchase about a dozen or so additional corals to farm. This won't "flood the market" as Tang wanted to do when he got this thing rolling, but it will bring some nice stuff to town when we can find it.
As far as working with DMS, we can probably work something out there.
Thanks for your feedback.
-dm

[CrystalAZ]

I voted for "lower the fee to 10%", but I like Joey's idea better. That way, if someone has a large number of things to sell, they are still getting a fair price for their corals, while PROP still makes money.

I see what you are saying, d. But I do think that there needs to be some type of fee by PROP in order to fund the purchasing of corals. Without any type of fee, PROP will have only what it has now, and what is donated by local reefers. I want to see PROP be able to continue to grow out rare and interesting corals.

I still would like to see zos and rics and LPS and such added to the mix. There are so many cool things that are difficult to get in Phoenix, and everyone isn't willing or can't afford paying $40 for shipping all the time to get these items.

There are always going to be some people who are negative. That's human nature. But we can't let those people dictate what we do.

As said before, I think MOST of the people who spoke out negatively just want confirmation that yes, our money IS going to actually purchase corals that will eventually be fragged and auctioned to local reefers.

I think that if you guys do an official update showing growth pics every couple weeks, that will not only reassure everyone, but it will continue to advertise PROP and keep it in the forefront of our minds to keep turnout at auctions high. Or, G may even be willing to put together a website for PROP that would show current corals and track growth.

Crystal

[Fliger]

I don't really care about the fee - but I have a question. I thought Tang told me a while back that PROP frags would be second or third generation tank raised SPS. If that is indeed the case, maybe it's a little too lofty. Maybe it would be better to get some really awesome aquacultured colonies, frag them up and sell them after a month or so of encrusting? Keep a few for re-growth and then sell those? You're really only talking about a dozen or so aquacultured, which are slightly better than true wild colonies. And you're only one generation from the optimal goal? Seems like it might get traction quicker and you could provide some nice coral frags locally. I know if you talk with Chris @ RM or Bryan @ Blowfish, they can get you stuff you request, before they hit the market. That is how Playa got (had) such a beautiful tank.

If it were me, that's the way I'd go about it, and I also would not auction those pieces off. Just sell them at a fair price that is profittable for PROP and a savings for locals.

I was just at Aquatouch and was really unimpressed with their corals. They had hardly any SPS, that's the third time in a row. I think the EV has the best stores with Ocean Art, Aq Arts and even All Aquatics. Oops, that was probably OT, but I was bummed that their SPS selection was poor.

[Fliger]

I agree with Crystal - get into zoos and ricordea. Stuff that can be propogated successfully.

I do feel pretty strongly about the auction thing. AAMOF, I doubt I'll ever purchase a piece via auction - not so much because I disagree, I just don't really have the time to go somewhere and hope I outbid everyone else. I don't think it promotes good will amongst local reefers and friends, either. But that's just me.

[BLUESMAN]

As a former member of PROP, I voted for a 10% fee. I feel that PROP has the right intentions and still should be funded by the auctions. These auctions are work and the small auction fee should be collected and used to assist the local reefers in buying corals(all...softies. LPS,SPS, ect) along with buying equipment and dry goods. By dry goods I mean, things like pickling lime in a 50# bag and packaging along with other daily needed goods(test kits, food and other equipment). I will volunteer myself in helping the auctions or finding such dry goods/equipment deals. I think that PROP should also invest in some mushrooms, zoanthids and soft corals that would help satisfy the locals until the slower grower sps's are ready for sale. Besides, you can't just have an sps only tank can you?? Well OK many do....but some killer blue "Tubs" zoos and orange rics would look awesome with sps's!! I'm behind you guys all the way!
Another idea...what about an swap meet at a local LFS? Scott at About The Reef is about ready to grand open and is thinking of having a swap meet/bar-b q...great way to meet many folks in a larger area. I'm not keen on the idea of a Thursday Nite auction..I do not see a high turn-out. I do like the "togetherness" that an PROP auction would have with FRAG and DMS members! But there are many other locals that do not even know about any of these organizations...We need as many locals as we can get to make Phx a great reefing community. Just me shooting off!!
Blue

[dmorel]

Crystal,
thanks for your thoughts, glad to see people talking about this. If we get enough positive feedback on what will from here on in be known as "The Joey Method" (congrats Joey) I'm sure we will very seriously consider it. The PROP board really is looking to hear what you folks think is best.

We actually have a website, it's just not been updated since we have not had much to report. Plus, the majority of folks coming out are getting their info from RC. Sometimes it's overwhelming to have so many places to have to check ;)

Agreed on your point re: some people are just negative.

To both you and David, I think zoa's and rics will have to be in our future, provided we can get a good source of the *nice* stuff.

David,
the reason we went with thrid generation was for stability and health. It was the collective opinion of the PROP members that third generation corals had a tendency to accurately portray their "true colors" (as it were) and were suffciently acclimated to their captive lifestyle to have the best chance of survival. I'm not sure we will step down from there, but at this point everything is open to discussion.

The idea on the auction vs. single price was to allow the market to set the cost of a piece, rather than the hype of a title (think purple moster...) Again, this is a tough issue and I suppose one we will have to address. However, if we moved from holding auctions to simply selling at a fixed price, the whole auction revenue to buy more corals becomes a moot point, now we really have no way to buy more corals and it really starts to just feel like a business, which is something I personally am opposed to.
Definately I'll think it over, and I'm sure the PROP members will all do so as well and we'll get into plenty of lits spats over it ;)

Keep your thoughts coming folks, we really appreciate it!
-dm

[dmorel]

I was just at Aquatouch and was really unimpressed with their corals. They had hardly any SPS, that's the third time in a row.
I live less than a mile from AT, and will probably never set foot in the place again...


I think the EV has the best stores...
sorry, don't know EV, that's what? Where?

Oops, that was probably OT, but I was bummed that their SPS selection was poor. yes and no... that's kind of the point of why PROP has been so focused on nice SPS, it's not to often you can get some locally. And I hear ya, I've got a hankering for a nice new frag or two... hopefully someone will have something fun to trade, 'cause I doubt I'll be able to find anything at the local shops.

-dm

[Fliger]

I don't think it makes it sound more like a business - MOF - I think an auction sounds more opportunistic. I was only talking of the SPS frags also. Auctioning the other stuff to grow your coffer, as you're doing now is perfectly fine IMO.

Regarding "letting the market set the price" and "hype" - I think both should be avoided since what is the primary objective? To help save the oceans by providing locals with high quality corals, so that we don't purchase wild colonies, right? To do that, PROP will have to operate profitably and be able to project margins. Set the price that will make it profitable. Then you can project future purchases. I also think it would be a much easier way to do business, since PROP farmer is in this "part-time".

At the very least, I would consider silent auctions.

Sorry, my business and education are in image and profitibility. Managing time and expectations. I'm shooting for CEO in a few years. ;-)

[Fliger]

EV = East Valley.

**sigh** Just read my last post - sorry for the errors. It's Friday and I need a beer.

I'm also just playing devil's advocate.

[sealife]

i love what prop is doig i hope that it keeps going i think that by ading some zoo or rec that will help and if you want any stuff from the store that we have let me know i will give it you

[MPETERS]

Hi,

I just wanted to say thanks for all the great input. I have read some great ideas and I am sure the PROP board members will have many discussions about them and may change some things we did in the past.

Please keep up the good ideas.

Thanks,

[Azilla]

If the prop members dont mind I am gonna add a banner to the DMS website that links to the bestfrags.com website.

LMK

- g

[dgin]

Anyone else have a vote and/or opinion on this? We will be making some decisions in the next few days so chime in if you want to be heard.

Thanks!

[BLUESMAN]

Go for the 10% and let's keep PROP going with some patience! I'd like to see some nice Ricordias, zoanthids and mushrooms to keep us satisfied until those sps are available. Any word on when PROP will order again since it is cooler? Any confirmation on the next auction date...October 2nd???
Blue

[Reefmaiden]

Since it's cooler?!? LOL I think it is supposed to be 105 today

[BLUESMAN]

That beats 123!!! Oh..it must be the cold beer I'm slamming!!! C'mon where's the news?? I want to buy some frags.....when is the auction?? Dave is going to have that purple rimmed cap...that will go for a price!!! Very nice piece. Anyone have a green millepora?? Let's keep this alive!!!
Blue

[sealife]

so is they going to be a meeting in oct if so we nead to know so we can get time off

[dmorel]

Yup,
we're going with Oct 2nd. I believe.
I think we will also be implimenting a few changes...
For one, the PROP portion will be 10% and will cap at $25.00 if you happen to sell a LOT of stuff. A modified "joey method" if you will...
Also, we are going to start two threads, one for auction items and one for trade items.
Personally, I will have a PROP Frag for auction (purple rimmed cap) but will also have many frags available for trade. Anything that I don't trade will then be available for auction.
I've got to go coach some little league ball right now (see, I am stretched thin...) but I'll try and post some stuff tonight to get those threads started.
regards,
-dm

[badfish]

The only problem i have with the auctions is that it is in the far east valley. I live in Surprise and the trip is at least an hour drive and thats with no road construction. I agree with AZDesertRat that a new location some where in the middle would be great. Or maybe DMS can start their own auctions.

[dmorel]

I think we should have them at my house personally, but that doesn't ever seem to fly.

[badfish]

I know you live around the 51 and Cactus so that sounds good to me.

[Azilla]

I live in Surprise too maybe a West Side carpool is in order?

[skier06]

I am in Avondale. we have a few west siders here

[BLUESMAN]

I can do an "truckpool" if anyone is interested. I'm at I-10 and 75th ave. I have room for three.....double cab Dakota. Lots of room in the bed for stuff(no people!). I might be bringing some tanks,stand and a canopy. I'll be at PROP early.....2'ish and leave afterwards as I will be working later that nite. Anyone??
Blue