Well,to much/to little ? you tell me

[SirDudeness]

Hello everyone,
Well I am slowly on my way to my first reef tank,I have a 46gal. bowfront,not to big and not to small,I'll be ordering my lighting in the next few days,the rule claims 5watts per gallon,so I'll be getting a JBJ compact with 2x96=192 watts of compact lighting,does jbj make a good light ????? I don't really have any corals at this point,I'm waiting on my lighting and a good understanding of them and the water,this bring me to the next,
How do you know what to add and what not to add,when and at what point do you stop?????
I add everyday-Iodine=8 drops
Liquid calcium=5 mill
strontium & molybdenum=8 drops
Tech-m Magnesium supplement=16 drops
Kalkwasser for top off at night=1/2 qt
Do you all add all of this to your tank ??????
For filtration I have a Marineland penguin 330 bio-wheel
with Black Diamond Carbon,and a RedSea Prizm Skimmer,
For a base I used about 45 pound of crushed coral,should I have used sand??
At this point I only have about 20 pounds of live rock,I'll crank that up to about 40 pound after I get my lighting.
Well how am I doing at this point ???????
thanks again-James

:beer:

[mgk65]

James:

Reef tank lighting should be furnished according to the livestock you wish to keep. If you are going for some softies, large stoney corals, and some montipora species (sps) then 192w is not too bad. However, it would be lacking for most acropora stoneys and clams.

STOP ADDING CHEMICALS!!!! :eek1: :eek1: :eek1: :eek1:

If you have virtually nothing in your tank to use the chemicals there is no purpose of adding chemicals that can potentially pollute your tank at high doses and drive them to toxic levels.

The RULE should be that you should not add anything you cannot measure. And the corallary is that you should know what is causing the measured drop, or at least have an educated guess.

For now, I would do a significant water change (30g) and STOP THE INSANITY! :crazy1:

Crushed Coral can act as a nutrient sink and eventually release the rotten stuff back into the tank when disturbed. I would suggest removal of the CC and replacement with a 4-5" sand bed made up of very very small particles (average size of 0.25mm). See http://www.reefs.org/library/talklog/r_shimek_090698.html
and http://www.rshimek.com/reef/sediment.htm

How are you doing? Well, you have a reef tank, so you can't be all that bad. :D Just Kidding! :D

I would suggest you read up on any topics you want to know info on. Go to the search at the top of the screen and type in some keywords. Read those topics. If you still have some questions, we'll be here.

mgk

[Phillstone]

Hi SirDudeness , Welcome to the board.

Can you tell us a little more about your system :

How long has it been up?

What do you currently have for livestock? Fish, snails,crabs.etc.


[How do you know what to add and what not to add,when and at what point do you stop????? ]
As a rule of thumb most of us don't add any suppliments that we can't test for. It can be very easy to over-dose. So for trace elements ( iodine- strontium-molybdenum etc) I suggest regular waterchanges, the quality salt mixes have these in the mix at proper levels.

Phill

[Carlos]

Originally posted by mgk65
James:

STOP ADDING CHEMICALS!!!! :eek1: :eek1: :eek1: :eek1:

mgk

wow, I think after that I wont be adding anything to my tank :)

I would agree with him about discontinuing the addition of chemicals to the tank. In my experience, the addition of chemicals actually works against you. Chemical additions are quick fixes. You fix something but throw away something else. There is no fix only chemical. I wish there was.

As Phill mentioned, water changes are the best thing you can do at this time. Water changes will help your tank sort itself out naturally and the correct way. Our salt water mix contains enough trace elements already. No need for additional elements.

Please give us a little more information about your tank. How old is it. Any problems with it so far? What do you have in there?

It also seems that you need to do some reading before you continue with your tank. I would highly recommend the following book. It will save you time, frustrations, and lots of money!!!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087483/qid=1003981041/sr=12-1/103-0296366-8430202

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087009/qid=1003981096/sr=12-1/103-0296366-8430202

I personally have that book and find it very helpful.

BTW, I do not add any chemicals to my tank. All my trace elements are replanished when I do water changes.

Welcome to the hobby and PLEASE do not hesitate to ask again, that is what we are here for!

Carlos

[SirDudeness]

Well ya,it does sound like madness to be adding all of this crap to my tank,I never really liked the idea of it to start of with,if only I had this computer before I got my tank !!!!!!!my LFS are the ones that got me adding everything to my tank,I started adding the liquid calcium cause my calcium was at about 320,to my understanding it needs to be at about 400 mg/L,so I needed to raise it,started addingthe super buffer to raise my alkalinity to 6-9 kh,I was having problems with my calcium and alkalinity staying stable and was told it was a lack of magnesium,so that added another supplement to the list:hmm5: :hmm5:
Phill
As fare as livestock I have 2 demsels,a coral beauty and a maroon clown,one emerald crab and two red reef crabs,I have had the tank up and running for a year,it started out as a 29gal and was upgraded to my 46gal. about 4 months ago.
I use kent marine seasalt ,keep it at 1.023
thanks-james

[SirDudeness]

YOU PEOPLE ARE GREAT,You have know idea how grateful I am.:bounce1: :dance:,Like I said before,If only I go this computer first,I do have a lot to learn,that's no lie,all I had before was my LFS,and you see what that got me, :uzi: LFS,
thanks again:D james

[dattack]

So Carlos, what saltwater mix do you use that replenishes all your trace element? I have Instant Ocean and I really don't know the difference between all the saltwater mixes. Any brand out there that is good for everything without having to add calcium, strontium, mg, etc.?

[mgk65]

dattack:

The problem is that many do not understand is that these elements/chemicals do not need to be replenished UNLESS there is a proven lack of said element/chemical. A reliable test kit would be required, such as Salifert, Lamotte, Hach, some Aquarium Pharmaceuticals.

In fact, some say that these elements/chemicals may be at levels that are toxic to animals in our aquariums.

Most salts will replenish these to natural seawater levels.

If you have an aquarium that has a calcium/alk demand, then a salt mix will not provide that completely, in which case you would supplement with ca and alk.

mgk

[Carlos]

dattack,

I use Instant Ocean (IO). I use it because I like it, it is faily inexpensive, and seems to be everyone's choice of synthetic salt.

Here is an article that you might find helpful tho:

http://www.animalnetwork.com/fish2/aqfm/1999/mar/features/1/default.asp

HTH,

Carlos

BTW, I personally keep my gravity at 1.025. I know lots of people that do tha also. Seems like the school of keeping the SG at 1.022 has been faded out along with temperatures of 78 degrees. But that is a whole different ballgame.

[SirDudeness]

MGK65
I have been measuring as I said calcium and alkalinity was low,
I needed to bring it up somehow,and was told I had unstable cal and alk due to the lack of magnesium,so I don't think I was totaly shooting in the dark,with the new info at hand do you still think I should change 30 out of 46 gal. ???????or is that an overkill ???
you all know better than I do,I don't have a problem doing it if need be,I want to do this right.
I stopped adding everything last night,and I mean everything,I'll change out 5 gal tonight and 3 more on Sun. I change out 3 gal a week as a rule-Thanks again-James

[dattack]

Thanks for the reply,
I have only 6-7 soft corals that have very low demands other than iodine and calcium. The only thing I have added so far is kalk and sometimes iodine.
Yes I also use IO. I just ask the question about trace elements because I got a couple of bottles given to me that has all the elements in one, so to speak. Haven't used it yet.

[DC321]

STOP ADDING CHEMICALS!!!!

LFS loves our $$$$$$$$$!!!!

[Phillstone]

James ,
I wouldn't do a massive waterchange unless your critters are being affected by the current levels of trace elements.
A rapid change in water chemistry could affect your livestock.
I would just continue w/your weekly w/c schedule and discontinue the use of additives.

Phill

[SirDudeness]

thanks Phill
thats what I was thinking,I understand MGK65's point,if I was adding just for the sake of adding anyway,however thats not the case,I was measuring and 30galllons just sounded a bit much to me,thanks again people,
James

[mgk65]

James:

Sometimes, in our tanks we start to get a chemical roller coaster or a teeter toter with alk and Ca on one side. This can happen if some Ca supplements are added without the other component. Turbo Calcium and some other supplements are not designed to be used for extended periods without the other side of the equation also being dosed such as a buffer or alk supplement. This is what can cause an ionic imbalance. The right thing to do for this situation is a large water change if there is actually an imbalance.

Kalkwasser is really the perfect additive adding both Ca and alk to the water while not affecting th ions a single bit.

If your Ca and alk are still out of whack, I would really consider a larger water change. With the livestock you have, the water changes you do regularly and what you have been adding, there should not be all that much demand for Ca, alk, or Mg.

In addition, strontium and molybednum really are not necessary as nothing in our tanks uses these elements.

In addition to the book that Carlos recommended, I would also suggest Aquarium Corals by Eric Borneman. I think there is an ad for it at the bottom of the page.

mgk

[SirDudeness]

MGK65
everything I added to my tank as fare as supplements are concerned I would read the bottle over and over to make sure I had a good understanding about the product,that is how I got involved with Kalkwasser,the liquid calcium said it worked best if used with,I do understand that with the livestock I have now that I really don't have a high demand for cal.,alk.,and mag. however I'm just looking at my very near goals for this tank,and the corals I plan to put in it what ever they may be,to my understanding will have the need.before I ran out to my LFS and spent an ungodly amount of money on corals and what have you I want to make dam sure my water is right for what they demand,that is way I gave myself a year to learn as much as I can,I'm not rushing anything,when I have the understanding I'm going for the gold but not till then,the problem I have faced for the past year at my LFS is the lack of understanding or knowledge of what they sell,when I asked my LFS about alkalinity I just got strange looks :eek2: ,so I started hitting up the book stores,
I picked up an Aquarium Fisk magazine,the things I started reading gave my hobby a new meaning,I was learning things that I had no idea about,and still am,I'll check out the books that you and Carlos feel I should read,
thanks again-james

[mgk65]

I'm glad you made it here. This is the place to search, ask questions, and find about stuff you cannot imagine!

mgk

[SirDudeness]

this one Tony-James