reef lighting question

[Josh669]

this is probably a stupid question,, but i was just wondering if maybe you could use regular 75w bulbs kind of like a metal halide for a reef?

[robwsup]

Good question, but no. Regular incandescent lights are way too yellow (low kelvin) for reef applications. Some people have asked about halogen bulbs, but they are also unsuitable.

Robert

[Pomacanthus1]

nope.

MH bulbs are more intense, and produce more light than the regular light bulbs (like the ones for table lamps) are usually 50-75 watts, while MH are MUCH more, like 175-400w (i've even seen 10,000w). The regular (incandesent? is that the term?) will not keep virtually anything in your tank that is photosynthetic alive. If the reason you want to substitute MH with incandesent(sp?) is the price, and you want a future reef setup, consider VHO (very high output) or PC (power compact florescent).

However, if you are going to set up a furture reef, MH is the best way to go, even though many people use VHO and PC and have beautiful reefs (like me;) )

[tyoberg]

One of the possible contributers to algae blooms is excessive red and yellow light. This is an important reason to replace your bulbs within the specified life--the output spectrum of a bulb tends to degrade with time.

Very crisp white and blue are what you want. I consider any bulb with a color temperature of less than 6500K (a "daylight" bulb) to be too yellow. The higher the color temperature, the more blue it is. 20,000K is about as high as you'll see, and they are pretty blue. "Actinics (blue)" have an infinite color temperature, so it doesn't apply to them.

People typically use a mix of actinic and white flourescent tubes, or use MH and supplement with actinic flourescents.

Ty

[Swords]

Hello Josh (I feel like I'm talking to myself here) :D

These guys are right color of light is very important. I learned this while teaching myself to design planted freshwater tanks (ever see those Nature Aquarium World books? I have tanks similar those), now I'm going on to reefs with my livingroom tank and need that spendy lighting.
What I''ve found is some great cheap PC lighting at Wal Mart (check my post with a title of something like "65W Power Compacts for $25" it has all the info) These are a relatively new product from Lights of America
http://www.lightsofamerica.com. These worklights are nearly as bright as my 24" 110 watt Red Sea Phazer IV Power Compact lighting and 1/10th the price! and have a great color spectrum of around 6500K (just about perfect).
I will be installing about eight sockets for these lights in my 75 gallons canopy as well as leaving two of my NO Flourescents in there to add some actinic or something. Total I will have around 600 watts over the tank. I figure with the top of the Deep Sand Bed being 15" from the lights This should give me plenty of light and intensity. Not the same as MH of course but a cheap fix it to my previous thought of paying $400 for lights. :D

Good luck!

[Josh669]

these special PC lights from Wal-Mart can be used on a reef? i have a 55g going up very soon. so would i be able to put 2 actnics and like 6or7 60w of those walmart lights as the lighting and have it work?

[dattack]

Josh,

Putting 6-7 of those LOA lights on the 55 would work but not very economical in the long run. I don't know about you but having 6-7 cords running to a power outlet just doesn't cut it. And you should do a search on the LOA lights in this forum because some people have experience problems in terms of too much heating in the enclosure.
I would use the LOA lights on the refugium/sump but not the main tank. Have you checked out some of the metal halides online and the selling forum? It is quite affordable.

[Josh669]

ok, well if thats not gonna work too well,, does anyone have any ideas on a cheap lighting system for a 55g reef? even if i have to build it myself i don't care.

[dattack]

Have you tried this?

http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/aquarium/public_html/DIY_MH.html

[Josh669]

how many 400w MH's should i put on my 55g? or how many watts of halides would be enough?

[OodleyBoodely]

You can get some cheap PC retros from ahsupply.com.

[dattack]

First off, what do you plan to put in your reef in terms of corals/clams. Do you want mostly soft corals, sps?
If you plan to keep only soft corals, you can just get VHO or power compacts. If you plan to have clams and SPS, then you need to go metal halide.
The dimensions of your tank will tell you how many metal halides you will need. One metal halide usually covers a 2ftx2ft area.

[Swords]

Josh,

I will have to disagree that these lights will get too hot as a friend of mine has been using the older wal mart PCs on his planted tank for some time now. He has six over a 29 gallon (inside an open backed oak canopy) and the water does not overheat. If your're worried about heat you can always add a fan (which you'd have to do with any other high wattage lighting system anyway). If you can afford them MH would indeed be killer but will also create plenty of heat. I can't or rather wouldn't spend the money on the same lights I can set up for a lot cheaper, especially if I can get away with it. This is only my oppinion cos I'm a hardcore DIY'er. :D

As for using these lighting fixtures out of the box (as is) that's not gonna happen as the reflector sucks and so does the fixture itself it's the bulb I'm interested in (now that I have the kit I know what bulb i need to order) I will be installing (as per my pals instructions) eight porcelin edison sockets and ordering a box of the 65W 6500K LOA bulbs. The sockets will be hooked up four per #16 wire and one heavy duty powercord so there will actually be two cords powering each bank of PCs and a seperate one for the actinics. each bank will be on a seperate timer so I can simulate the suns movement (if only on an insanely minute scale).

I will be performing this canopy surgery the first weekend of November (this weekend the UK writer of my magazine is coming this weekend, delaying my sinister plan:D ) and then posting my photoraphic instructions on the Natural Aquarium website. So if you're not going all out real soon you can at least see one DIY option.

Take it easy all!

[dattack]

IME, a 175 W metal halide produces almost the same heat as 175 W of power compact. Both will need to have a fan.

I am just saying that one will most likely upgrade to Metal Halide in the future and you can grow anything with Metal Halide. With power compacts you are limited to mostly soft corals. There are always good deals with Metal halide if you have the time to look. And even better if you want to DIY.

For a 55 gallon:

1. 6 LOA lights from home depot about $150-180. Total of 390 watts.

2. 250 Watt MH DIY Kit - includes 250W MH unassembled magnetic ballast, MH 250W 6500K bulb, mogul socket, and mounting bracket
$119.00 x 2=$238 Total watts of 500 from marinedepot.

3. 175 W Metal Halide retro kit from aquaticlighting with 5500K bulb $112x2=$224 Total watts of 350.

4. Power compacts from lampsnow.com
4x55 watts= $239-$20 discount =$219

If I were you, wait and see who has lighting systems for sale because they usually go around half of there initial cost. This might be even cheaper than any DIY or LOA lights.

Some good deals on Ebay too in terms of lighting:

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1288269369

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1287772443

[Swords]

Wow, Marine Depot has 2 MH for only $238? That sounds awesome! I stand corrected go for this I am!

Datack, is that www.Marinedepot.com?

just checked it is!

Thanks man!:D:D :D :thumbsup:

[Swords]

Now I gotta reef lighting question... so i go for the MH (at that price why not?) can i mount it inside my oak canopy? If so I know I'll need fans would I use one in the middel of the canopy or one on either end. And if one on either end which direction should the fan blow (aimed out-sucking out the hot air) or in (sucking cool air in)?

thanks!

[dattack]

I think you get better cooling if you aim the fan onto the water. My preference would be to put the fan at the end of the canopy so it can the air could travel across the entire water length.

[Swords]

Across the water?!?!? :confused:
How would this work with a glass lid on the tank? You can't use lights over a lidless tank can you? It doesn't sound safe, especially with like 1000 watts of light dangling percariously over it!

[dattack]

Originally posted by Swords
Across the water?!?!? :confused:
How would this work with a glass lid on the tank? You can't use lights over a lidless tank can you? It doesn't sound safe, especially with like 1000 watts of light dangling percariously over it!

There are a few ways of doing this. Some people actually don't have a glass top for their tank. In fact, most of LFS have their MHs at least 12 inches from the top of the tank to prevent any splashing of saltwater towards the fixture. Usually this works well and they have the fan blowing across the water. If you are pretty sure that your canopy is topnotched then it will be fine.

There are variations in what you can do. You can use a glass top and have the fan blow directly to the fixture so it can cool the inside of the canopy. You can have two fans near the back end blow cool air from the outside and have vents near the top front so that the air can escape. You can also have one fan blow across the fixture and have another fan at the other end blow out the air. But I think the best thing is to have both fans blow into the light fixture and have vents either in the back or top front of the hood. Either way you can still use a glass top.

[Jerry Gonzales]

Hi Josh,
If your thinking about using the Lights Of America units. I was in CA. about 2 months ago and they have them at Home Depot for $19.99. I picked up two of them, they also have a nice reflector in them. I use them for one of my tanks. I supplement with some attinic lighting. They do well for my corals I have in there, such as my leather,mushrooms, and star polyps. I took of the plastic shield on them and mounted the lights to the top of my canopy. HTH's and go to your local library and check out some good reef books. They should have books or can get them from a nieghboring library.
Jerry:)

[dattack]

Josh I didn't mean to burst your bubble and I think you can still put 4 of those LOA with actinic supplement and you will do fine with soft corals. Why don't you just give it a try and see how you like it and report back on your experience.

I forgot to mention I have a LOA light on my 10 gallon too and it does a good job for only $25.

[Swords]

Well now you all have done it! :D I'm going on a spending spree tomorrow as someone who read this post emailed me today and is selling me all his old MH ballasts cheap as he just got a new system. So tomorrow I'll be getting:
dual 400W PFO ballast, 1 175 watt ballast, 1 250watt ballast and bulbs (and a wave maker) all for $265!:eek1:

I will need to make up the reflector and put in the Mogul sockets for the MH but that's easy beans!

of course all these lights won't be over the one tank but I've always wanted to try a planted tank or two with MH lighting so nows my chance!

Hip hip horray! :D

[dattack]

Man you got a good deal. Reefing is a slow enjoyable process. I am like a vulture waiting for somebody to take down their reef because of personal matters. Here in California, some people were fed up with the electricity bill of MH and were selling cheap also. :D :cool: