Please Help!!

[Tammy]

Hello Everyone my name is Tammy and I have a HUGE problem. About three weeks ago I purchased a 125 gallon reef aquarium. I thought (I still think) I got a great deal. The tank & stand, 125-150 lbs of live rock, a great lighting system, 5 power heads, an ocean waver thing, sump, skimmer, fans, lots of corals, 2 cleaner shrimps, snails, hermit crabs, everything covered in coralline, and lots of other things all for $600. I was told the guy had put well over $3000 into the tank. When I picked up the tank I also brought some of the water from the tank home with me. Everything seemed to make the trip OK. Well, after a few days all the corals started dying and my Ammonia levels went through the roof. They are still through the roof as well as the Nitrites. The alkalinity is high. EVERYTHING IS HIGH and now even my snails are dead!!! I have kept freshwater fish for years and years but this is my first salt water setup. I have done tons of research and from that I'm guessing that not enough of the original water was added so the tank is basically recycling. Now that I have inadvertently killed everything should I just let the tank continue to cycle at it's own pace or should I do a major water change? Should I add some Ammonia Detox everyday? I'm afraid now that the live rock is going to die also. ANY thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!!! The tank also came with an electronic PH meter and temp reader. The PH is staying around 8.4. Also, the tank seems to be getting some brownish greenish algae growing on the sides. Anything to cut down on that? THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY SUGGESTIONS OR THOUGHTS!!!!
:confused:

[holeinone1972]

great deal, to bad it did not work out perfectly........... anyhow how long was everything apart and out of water

I would let the tank cycle at it's own pace now..... if eveything is dead there is no use worrying about the rock, it will recover well on its own



Best of luck now the real big lesson in reefing patience I hope things go better, at least you did not spend 3000 of your money but loss of life is bad enough there are some great people here to help it will get better

[dc]

Eww bummer! You probably needed to do quite a few water changes, like every other day. Water under the bridge. Did you do some water changes after everything died? I would let it cycle again and be patient. You still got a pretty good deal even without the livestock. Sorry:(

[Phillstone]

I am so sorry to hear about your situation.

We need to remove the source of the ammonia by making sure you remove all dead animals ( corals, snails crabs) .

Next I would do at least a 50% waterchange, and start running carbon in your system. You may need to do daily water changes ( I realize this is no easy task) for a while to get levels down. The longer your ammonia and nitrites are present the more die-off you will have which in turn will cause more ammonia............

Once you get your ammonia and nitrites to 0 we can go to the next steps.

On the algae, the only thing you can really do for now is to clean glass and syphon off rock during waterchanges.

I would also help us to know your tank Temperature and Salinty level.

Sorry HTH- Phill

[Skipper]

Could you give us an idea of how you are making up your saltwater that you are using for your water changes. The salinity of the tank is important. What is the specific gravity?

BTW.....u got a GREAT deal on that set-up!!

[Tammy]

Thanks for the responses! I feel a little better knowing I still got a great deal. And whats even better is the guy was so nice I gave him a $300 deposit and he said he would take $50 payments for the remaining $300. That was really nice of him.
As far as the salt went I added salt according to the directions on the package. (I used Instant Ocean except for one bad which was by Red Sea.) Then I mixed the salt, waited a few minutes then tested the water, then added more salt until I got to 1.023. Right now it's at 1.024. The ammonia is above 7.5!!!!! It's been that way now for about 2-3 weeks. Everything else is off the charts as well. The PH is staying between 8.3-8.4. I think the only things that are ok seems to be the salinity and the PH. I have also been removing the dead corals as they died. The only thing I did not remove were the snails. How long do "dead things" give off ammonia? Thanks again for the help and suggestions it is very much appreciated!

[Skipper]

Ok, how about the temperature? What is it?

[Tammy]

The temp is between 78-81 depending on how long the lights have been on.

[Skipper]

Ok, temp is probably not the problem, then. However, running your temp a little higher in the future (after the crisis is over), would be a good idea. Let me think some more on your problem....

[holeinone1972]

if your ammonia is really that high you better do some major water changes.....................................

[JBourne2]

Tammy,

I'm really sorry to hear about your problems. There is nothing more frustrating then watching everything die, and not knowing what the problem is or how to stop it. But fortunately you have found ReefCentral. I have been bailed out plenty of times by the great folks that post here.
This may sound like a stupid question but I have to ask, when you mixed the salt, did you mix it in the tank? Or did you mix it separately and add salt water to the tank?

[cvrle1]

Quick question. What kind of skimmer are you using?

It might help if it is a bad one to buy a new good one and run it 24-7

[tyoberg]

Talk about a crash course in reef keeping--ugh! What a nightmare! I feel for you--at least you DID get a great deal on the tank (even if all of the stuff is dead).

Focus on Ammonia. Forget everything else for the time being.

Dead things will continue to decompose until they are no longer--do your best to get as much out as possible.

Turn any snails upright that have fallen off of things and keep an eye on them (you should aways do that). If they don't retract into their shell when you handle them--huck em!

If there's anything still alive in the tank, transfer it to someone elses (ask the LFS if need be to keep your stuff for a week or two while this settles down). Don't worry about the rock--anytime someone starts a tank, this happens to some degree--it won't "die."

Carbon may help (1/4 - 1/2 cup in a bag in the sump).

I suspect that a lot of your problem happened simply due to disturbing the tank. If you'd kept all of the water, it still would have happened. A lot of nasty stuff can build up in the substrate and if you stir it around too much, you run a good chance of causing problems (tough to avoid in this case). There's always a risk with moving an established tank (even freshwater).

Hang in there--it may suck now, but it'll settle down and soon you'll be worry about what you want to put back into it first.

Ty

[Tammy]

I would like to thank everyone for their help and words of wisdom. To answer a few questions: I mixed the salt in 5 18 gallon containers before adding to the tank. I added the salt, mixed, waited a few minutes, tested, then added again until the reading showed 1.023. I am using the skimmer which originally came with the tank, a Turbo Floater 1000. The water pump is a Iwaki MD20RLXT. The overflow is a CPR CS-100 with a flow rate 800 GPH. The wave maker which controls up to four power heads is a Wave Maker by Ocean Motion. There are currently a total of 5 power heads. Two are controlled by the wave maker. The sump is a 22 gallon rubbermaid tub which houses the skimmer. At this point I don't even think the hermit crabs are still alive. The lighting is provided by an IceCap 660 Ballast. I think that answers everyones questions. If not please let me know. Thanks :rollface:

[dattack]

Overall,
That's a pretty good deal you got for $600. I second the opinion that during the moving process you probably disturbed a lot of things, like the sand bed that could have released some sulfide gas killing some organisms. It's a chain effect, once one organism dies it will contaminate in terms of ammonia levels etc.

Massive water changes is the only thing with a full running skimmer. I guess that's what you are doing anyways. Now you will learn about cycling a tank.

[firechild]

I was thinking exactly the same thing as dattack. Depending on the size of your sand, there can be biuld ups of sulfur, if released slowly by critters such as worms is fine but if all released at once by disturbing it can be lethal.

If stuff on your LR dies, it will spawn as a precautionary measure, many inverts can be induced to spawn by stress. Over time you will see a gradual increase of baby snails and worms etc. and all will come good.

[Q-ball]

Agree with the above...the solution to polution is dilution (stole that one from JimHobbs;)) I would recommend mixing your salt for a little longer, at least an hour, to make sure it's completely dissolved. It's not a huge deal, and I don't think it's creating the problem, but it's a good precautionary step to take. Do you know anyone that can take care of the remaining critters for now, until the tank stabilizes? Oh, & I think you got a good deal too ;)

Q!!!

[kames]

Hey I am a real newbie too, but wouldn't adding some ammonia lock help this out some. It would just turn the ammonia into a non-toxic form, it would still cycle the tank since the same bacteria that are necessary for processing toxic ammonia are required to processed the ammonia locked ammonia. I would still then do the massive water changes, but the ammonia lock would provide some immediate release. Those of you who are more experienced can hopefully say whether this is a good idea or not.

[Carlos]

Not sure if this was asked but what type of water are you using for your saltwater mixes?

Have you tested that water for ammonia? You said you have had FW fish for a long time, use the test kits and see if your water has ammonia in it. If so, you are just adding more ammonia to the tank and nothing you do will work.

I would check that first. If the water source is ok then I would mix the water in the buckets with a powerhead and a small heate for at least 24 hrs (newly mixed salt water is INCREDIBLY low in oxygen content so it will stress some of the animals there). Also make sure that the new water is the same salinity and temperature as the one in the tank. Like Q said, dilution is your best solution here as long as your source water is ammonia free.

Just an example. Had a friend that started his tank and for 1.5 months, his ammonia levels would not go down. Finally we tested his source water and found out that there was a pretty good concentration of it there. As soon as we removed that ammonia, the tank immediately went down to 0.

So check your source water. I am pretty sure that will be the source of ammonia. Might be a good time to start looking into an RO/DI system.

HTH and please keep us posted!

Carlos

[Tammy]

I did just test the tap water for AMMONIA and the reading came back as 0.25. So the water that I put in has a small amount of Ammonia in it. I have aslo tried putting Ammonia Lock in the tank and it really didn't do anything. I also tried Ammonia Detox with the same results. When I added the tap water to the tank I did add AmQuel to the water. Also there is no sand in the tank. The guy who I purchased the tank from had the tank for a few years and he said it was basically a berlin? system. The live rock is set on a shelf of egg crate I think it's called. You can't really see it because of the rock. No sand. And he said it worked out wonderful since he has had it. Even the flower pot had produced a "baby". So the tank was really do well. That is until I got it. In the next few minutes I'm going to do a water change. How much should I change? I don't want to do to much where it's going to start cycling again. Not that, that would probably make much difference since the levels are so high. Any idea on how much I should change? Thanks!!!

[Carlos]

Tammy,

I figured that was the source of ammonia. Make sure you get a different source water or you will be battling a loosing battle.

In tersm of a water change, I would do a 50% water change with the new ammonia free water (remember to let the water and salt mix for at least 24hrs). I would not worry about your tank cycling again because it IS cycling again and has been since you detected any ammonia there.

Please keep us posted.

BTW, If 50% is too much to do, you can always do 25% today and 25% tomorrow and keep in mind that you might have to do more water changes and quite frequent for a few weeks just to get that tank to where it should be. Also, this might be a good time to add some sand to that tank.

[MORAY]

You may want to think about getting a RO/DI system for your water. If you buy bottled water to drink, the RO/DI can replace that? That is a great deal on that tank, I wish I had done something like that. Do you really have a wolf?

John