brittle stars and cukes... NOT compatible!

[freelancing]

About a month ago, I posted a thread asking what a cucumber's guts look like... now I know.:eek:

My greenbird wrasse is typically the culprit when things appear mischievous in my tank, but the circular abrasions all over my black knobby cucumber revealed otherwise.http://www.reefcentral.com/smilies/mad01.gif

The cuke has been in my tank for about 6 weeks and with the exception of an occasional poke from the wrasse, he was left alone.

I just got the two green brittle stars on Friday. I read that they will attack slow-moving fish, but the cuke never entered my mind.http://www.reefcentral.com/smilies/anger.gif

Miraculously, the tank has not gone toxic from what I can tell. There was a gel-like pale green sac of fluid that was unpunctured and is no doubt the source of tank poisoning... feel free to correct me if I am wrong.http://www.reefcentral.com/smilies/spin02.gif

The guts look like fine white hair... almost like cellophane noodles, but much thinner. I can see how the guts could easily kill a fish by clogging the gills or sealing the mouth shut... the guts are VERY sticky under water.

There's almost an electric "pull" when you stick your hand in... the guts just attach to you and they are almost impossible to pull off underwater... you get the idea what the experience must be like for a small insect getting stuck in a web... the more you try to get the guts off, more entrails get stuck to you. http://www.reefcentral.com/smilies/icon7XX.gif

Both cukes and serpent/brittle stars had been suggested as good detrious eaters and sand stirrers as replacements for my sand-sifting star... they may both be good, but my experience proves that the two species should not be occupying the same tank.

I can't find the brittle stars anywhere, but I'm still looking. All other tank inhabitants look healthy and all ate heartily when I fed them.http://www.reefcentral.com/smilies/fish.gif

[David Corbett]

but my experience proves that the two species should not be occupying the same tank.


I don't have a single tank that doesn't have this combination; I have never experienced the brittle star problem that so many talk about.

Did the cuke puke his guts as a defense against the wrasses harassment? And did it die? In the wild this defense doesn't kill the cuke.

I will say though that some of my larger brittle stars have probably snagged an occasional fish, I just haven’t seen it. Strange thing though I have a tank with a green mandarin in it along with a large green star, mandarins like to sleep in the open and on the sand bottom, this would seem like easy pickings for a green star. DOC

[freelancing]

The wrasse would poke the cuke once in a while, but that was it. He'd give it a single poke and when the cuke would raise it's head (or rather, it's knobby end) and my wrasse would flee and hide behind a rock. The wrasse never bothered the cuke relentlessly because the wrasse is a chicken and the cuke never expelled its innards before this.

The cuke had several white circular nickel-sized spots where it appeared that the star(s) grabbed it and sucked/bit off a good portion of it's exterior skin layer.

The cuke was not moving and was essentially a lifeless sack. I assumed it was dead and it got flushed. If it indeed was alive, then I'll chalk it up to another "death by ignorance." All I know is that I was grateful to get those innards out of there before it made my tank toxic.

I am only seeing one brittle star... I have no idea where the second one is. The one that's visible has been very listless and bloated and no doubt has a tummy full of cuke guts... and/or perhaps the other brittle star. The central disc is very puffy... almost like a sea biscuit. When I add food to the tank, the star moves it's tenticles a bit and will put some food into its mouth, but it sure doesn't have the "get up and go" it had when it was first introduced into the tank.

My other fish are spunky enough to defend themselves against the star (damsels and dottybacks). I apparently don't have enough amphipods/copepods to support a mandarin... I've had two die of starvation and I probably won't get another mandarin unless I set up a sea horse tank or something.

[alf3482]

Hi Shelly,
Well I have a cuke and a brittle star, been together about a year no problems. But If you want to keep brittle stars i suggest the black ones not the green one's, the green ones i have wittnessed catching fish, not to mention the green ones get very huge. more than likely the star did not eat the cuck till it was dead they are scavengers in most cases. The cuck probably was stressed in some way and released his insides, as it does in nature. And the stars did what they are suppose to, clean up the remains.

[freelancing]

Well, you could be right... but considering that the star is acting really pokey, I still have my suspicions. I didn't witness the carnage, but I probably won't get another cuke... it's just not worth the risk... obviously something happened that wasn't quite kosher. :)

-ShellEy (with an "E")

[Brad Ward]

Yep!

Green Brittle stars are carnivorous and will eat anything. The fact that they might have eaten a little Cucumber sushi might be the reason for such slow movement. They might have a little food poisoning! Serpent stars are what you want, or as Alf said, the black and small Brittle stars are completely safe. Keep asking ??? before you buy. That's why we are here!

hth,

Brad

[freelancing]

My guess is that one brittle star ate some cuke guts and died and the other brittle star ate that brittle star... because there's only one green brittle star in my tank and it's all lumpy... when I got them, the central disc was pretty flat, like a quarter... but now it looks like a diamond-tufted pillow - almost as thick as my thumb. That thing hardly moves, but as full as it is, it will still grab a few brine shrimp each time I add food to the tank. I know stars don't have brains, but this fat star has moved to the part of the tank where I add food and it has parked itself there for the past 3 days. I feel like I should put a little plastic toilet and a magazine in there for him.:p

Are you suggesting that I get rid of this star for a black one, or should I assume that this one is ok?

I know Ron Shimek's book said to avoid the green and white banded serpent stars, but that the others were kosher. Do you know where I can order the black serpent star? Most places just say that "colors vary" and you just get what they send you.

My blue lankia star is MIA... I have no idea where it could be... too big to be eaten by anyone in the tank.:confused:

-Shelley

[alf3482]

Shelly, The Black i mention is a brittle star. Serpent stars come in many colors and i am not aware of a bad serpent. I could be wrong but usually the Green brittle star is the ones to stay a way from because of there eating habbits of small creatures and fish.
The black brittle stars stay smaller and are safe in the reef enviroment. I'm not saying to get rid of it, because i have never had one i just know what i have read and that is to stay away from the green ones. I have a black one form e- tropicals that came in a clean up crew, Have never had a problem with him.HTH

[alf3482]

My blue lankia star is MIA... I have no idea where it could be... too big to be eaten by anyone in the tank.
The blue linka is a very sensitive star fish. Can be difficult to keep they don't like higher temps mostly 77 to 78 degress is where they want to be kept. More than likely it has died. They must be aclimated for a very long time. They are also sensitive to Salinity change, and they don't like to be touched by the human hand.HTH

[freelancing]

Robert,

Thanks for the info. I can't imagine that the blue star has died... unless they vanish into thin air like Yoda the second they die... I just can't find him. My guess is that he's behind a rock or something. My tank runs pretty cool... about 76F at all times (day and night, with or without lights), so heat shouldn't be an issue. I had had one for several months without problems but accidentally crushed it while moving rocks... this guy is the replacement. I'm just hoping he shows up from where ever it is he's hiding. ;p

I'll check out e-tropicals... but my main focus is getting a big protein skimmer. I've been stimulating the economy way too much lately and I have to take a breather for a while. :D

-ShellEy (spelled with two "E's")
:cool:

[alf3482]

Your right what was i thinkingE

[Breef]

I really don't know what is considered large for a brittle star but my black brittle star if he spreads his arms to the maximum would be almost from one side of my 58 gal to the other. He also hasn't bothered any living thing in my tank. One thing though he doesn't rub off a good deal of my coraline algae in the areas around the hole he stays under. He just rubs and rubs until it is white there. Actually I think his maximum span is probably from 16-20inches.