?'s for Vegas people

[EvilInSin]

Hi! I hope you all dont mind me posting in here, I got so happy when I found that there was a actual board with Vegas reefers!

My husband wants to turn our FO tank into reef, we had the FO for 4 years and before that I had Fresh for about 12 yrs. Reef is all new to me and hubby has already started adding things to it, then I look up what he brings home so I know how to keep it alive.
Anywho my question for you is where do you get your LR? We need about 20lb of it, I was going to order some online but wanted to know what you all did?
Also can you tell me what you did to cure it once you got it or if it needed to be cured at all?
Ok one more, where do you get your lil zoo's I think they are called, the tiny round ones. I havent gotten all the names down yet, sorry.

I am a noobie to reef but want to learn and have lots of time to learn. I have read most of your posts on this board, and I see that there is alot of exp. here and also that you all have MUCH larger tanks than we do.

Oh yeah our tank is 26 show seaclear system2 ( I read someones post that seaclear isnt good :( but we liked that it was all set up for us and on sale when we got it.) The lighting is 2x65 pc 1ea. daylight and actinic, with moon lights. The rest of its all integrated into the back of the tanks so I dont know much about it. In it we have a sea fan, fire fish, anemone crab and anemone, dwarf feather duster, 1 cleaner shrimp and 2 snails I think they are called Nassaris something like that.

Sorry for the long post I tend to do that.
TIA for any info you may have for me!

[masterswimmer]

Originally posted by EvilInSin
My husband wants to turn our FO tank into reef, we had the FO for 4 years and before that I had Fresh for about 12 yrs. Reef is all new to me and hubby has already started adding things to it, then I look up what he brings home so I know how to keep it alive.


Hi,
Welcome to RC.
Hope you don't mind me chiming in here. Your husband is sort of putting the cart before the horse. For him to be buying things and then you researching it is backwards. You are sure to run into problems and put some poor unsuspecting critters into stress, pain and maybe death. Not fair to the critters, or you for that matter.

Please take the time to read, research, ask questions and then stock your tank appropriately. The only thing that happens fast in this hobby is problems. Take your time and you'll have a great reef experience.

Your direction with live rock is great. A natural biological filter. Get yourself some cured LR and then make sure you cure it some more in your home. Invariably there will be more die off and you will have another cycle in your tank where the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates will spike. Try to do this curing in a vat outside your display tank. Put a powerhead and heater in the vat and prepare yourself for a nice rancid 'low tide' smell for a week or two. I got my LR from Reefermadness. Great online vendor and RC sponsor. There are others but I don't have experience with them.

As for your self contained system. If it has bioballs I'd slowly get rid of them and use a protein skimmer in its place. Bioballs are notorious for being nitrate traps. A refugium will serve you better. Great for exporting nutrients and a safe place to grow pods.

That should be enough long winded response for you. See, you are not the only one who can be long winded, lol.

Hope this helps (HTH),
Russ

[EvilInSin]

Thanks for the input Russ, it does have Bio balls. Can I use balls and a skimmer? or just get rid of balls? I thought they were a good thing. See how much I have to learn!

I guess I should have added that the Sea fan and anemone were the only real things I didnt know how to care for (obviously the others were easy and some were already kept by us before the killer fish was added.) I feel bad that the fan and Anemone are in danger, and fan looks good was a bit damaged but seems ok so far but anemone is not lookinggood at all, it was bleached and I didnt know that happened to em at the time poor lil guy.
We do have 10lb LR and 20lb ls but I understnad we need more LR. I got my LR from tropaquarium, I prefer not to have to go there though, not real impressed.
Of course I didnt realize there were so many stores in Vegas I check the yellow pages and found just 2 that said they had sw, I couldnt even find the FISH one.
Plan to go look for the GV store and the one on Jones this week to see what they are like.

[LVfishguy]

Hello and welcome to our little world here. First off I would Highly recommend that you get yourself a little powerhead or something for some added circulation in that tank. System2's are not all that great when it comes to getting some current in you tank. I think that you are taking a step in the right direction coming here. I think that you really should make your way down to my store and we can get you started on things that you might want to do to get you tank ready for a reef.

Hope to hear more from you and happy reefing!

[masterswimmer]

Originally posted by EvilInSin
Thanks for the input Russ, it does have Bio balls. Can I use balls and a skimmer? or just get rid of balls? I thought they were a good thing.
We do have 10lb LR and 20lb ls but I understnad we need more LR.

I'd get rid of the bio balls, get yourself a HOB skimmer (Hang On Back). Aqua C Remora is a very respectable skimmer.

In a 26 gallon tank I'd be looking for between 26 lbs and 39 lbs of LR, preferably Fiji, Kaelini, Tonga, Marshall Islands. These rock are much more porous than Carribbean LR.

Definitely a powerhead. I like the maxi jets. The 1200 would work in your size tank.

You can get a lot of your dry goods at good prices from RC sponsors online. Marine Depot, Premium Aquatics, Reefgeek are all good places to start. Check them out for pricing, give them a call and see how customer oriented they are.

Keep the questions coming. Good luck.......

Russ

[TippyToeX]

EvilInSin

<img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>

Glad you found us. :) We hope you will stick around. Keep asking questions and perhaps we can be lucky enough to have you join us at our meetings.

Everyone is quite right. You should stop (get your husband to take a step back) and do some heavy research. You never want to add anything into the tank, unless you are sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

I order my liverock online. I prefer Fiji and the only LFS in our area that supply Fiji are not high enough quality for me. Also it looks to be loaded with aiptasia (a pest anemone that can spread rapidly and sting coral). Here is the reason I prefer Fiji liverock Read Me (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/liverock1.htm)

What kind of rock you want to use (Tonga, Florida, Caribbean, Fiji, etc) is very much a personal choice. Each has a pro and con. Do research here on ReefCentral and online. Rock (even from the LFS) will not be cured enough IMHO. There will be die off. If you already have live animals in the tank you do not want any ammonia nor nitrite spike. A reef tank does best with Nitrates under 10ppm as well.

A skimmer is must of course. I too like the AquaC Remora for a HOB skimmer. Slowly remove the bio-balls. Not all at once, you will put your filtration balance all out of whack. Also I hate to say it, but your lights sound weak for an anemone. Are you feeding it?

Maxi-jet are good powerheads. Just know that you want the amount and kind of current to match the coral you are keeping.

:D So you like Zoanthids (zoos) I see we shall be good friends! I am a crazy collector of them. I get mine all over online.

Also do you have, or have you read these books?

<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087483/reeflink" target="_blank"><b>Aquarium Corals</b></a><br>Selection, Husbandry, and Natural History<br><i>by Eric Borneman</i><br><a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1890087483/reeflink" target="_blank"><img src="http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1890087483.01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg"></a>

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/1890087025.01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg The Conscientious Marine Aquarist (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890087025/ref=ase_reeflink/002-2064401-6678415?v=glance&s=books) by Robert Fenner

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0967263034.01.TZZZZZZZ.jpg Reef Invertebrates (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0967263034/ref=ase_reeflink/002-2064401-6678415?v=glance&s=books) by Calfo & Fenner

[EvilInSin]

thanks for all the response

Tippy~ I did just order the Corals book, I really hope it has something on this unindentafied gorgonian we have, and I dont know what kind of rock I want, I liked the look of the Florida cultured rock but EVERYONE has said to get Fiji. I guess we will go that way, I just wish I could hand pick the rocks because they have to fit through a small opening in the top of the tank, we had to take a hammer to the one we have now.

New questions, (1) the rock we got never looked "live" to me and still doesnt. How long before I know there may be a hitch hiker ?
I never had a problem with the sand we have and I hope the rock is the same. heck I almost want to see something pop out of the sand, something good though.
(2) how much water flow do I need? we already have a sand storm going in the tank will the power head make it worse? I always thought we had too much flow and was trying to block it off with decorative corals (dead ones)
(3) Skimmer...the tank has a empty spot in the back for a skimmer but we never got one because we were always fine with the fish/water. Can I just get one that fits into that? only have about 1/2 " from tank to wall. I can post pics if it helps.

Everything is looking good today but the anemone is hiding behind the rock from the lights, I think if we lose him we will never get another one because I have never seen one that didnt bleach. course maybe another varity could be in order.

O also we have been testing the water and all is still good, I guess I need to learn about this fuge thing or what ever it is.
Reading on the wed for about 2 weeks now about 10 hrs a day and I still feel like I know nothing!

[masterswimmer]

Amy, great books. Eric Borneman's is my bible.
Another great book is:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1890087386/qid=1089092663/sr=5-2/ref=cm_lm_asin/002-8175828-0179265?v=glance&s=books
You'll find it invaluable as well.

I haven't gotten Anthony Calfo's Invert book yet. But that is my next purchase.

More great advice for you.

Russ

[opihi]

EvilInSin: welcome to the LVVR club! glad you posted, we welcome everyone. :)

masterswimmer & Amy gave very sound advice. following their advice will help save you a lot of heartache and frustration.

here's my attempt at answering your other questions:

1) Live rock has hitchhikers of many forms. take a look at this Hitchhiker's Guide (http://www.reefs.org/hhfaq/pages/main_pages/faq_rock1.htm) to see if you can identify any that's on your LR. also, try looking at your live rock in the dark with a red light. depending on the quality of your rock, you'll be amazed at the worms and pods that come out while you're sleeping. for best viewing, try to keep the tank in the dark for several hours before viewing with the red light.

2) the recommended flow of water in your tank depends directly on the animals you stock. 10 to 15 times the volume of your tank should be adequate.

3) the water conditions for a reef tank is much less forgiving than a FO tank. many corals prefer nitrates being under 10ppm. (i believe ppm is the measurement used, i apologize if i'm in correct). i recommend getting a remora skimmer as well. IMO, it's the best HO (hang on) skimmer out there. (i'm a firm believer in getting the proper equipment the first time. if you go cheap now and get the good stuff later, you're just spending more money.)

again, welcome to LVVR, hope to meet you at one of our meetings. :)

jeff

[EvilInSin]

got that marine fish one while ago, its nice to have it for reference when we consider fish.

[EvilInSin]

thanks Jeff for the info I will have to get a red light and check it out!

[masterswimmer]

Originally posted by EvilInSin
thanks for all the response

Tippy~I just wish I could hand pick the rocks because they have to fit through a small opening in the top of the tank, we had to take a hammer to the one we have now.

New questions, (1) the rock we got never looked "live" to me and still doesnt. How long before I know there may be a hitch hiker ?
(2) how much water flow do I need? we already have a sand storm going in the tank will the power head make it worse?
(3) Skimmer...the tank has a empty spot in the back for a skimmer but we never got one because we were always fine with the fish/water. Can I just get one that fits into that?



Give Reefermadness a call. Tell Chris you'd like certain shape rocks. Tell him the maximum size (measure your opening) he'll hand pick for you. Tell him Russ from Hudson Valley Reef Keepers sent you. He'll take great care of you.

Hitchhikers normally show up pretty quickly. However, you might see new life months down the road. Very tough to put a timeline on it.
Water flow...will vary depending upon what you want to keep in the tank. Most people shoot for 10 - 20 times the tank capacity. For a 26 gallon that would mean between 260 and 520 gallons per hour. Now that flow doesn't all have to go through your skimmer or filtration. Powerhead circulation counts towards that flow. If I remember correctly, the maxi jet 1200 is about 290 gph.

Skimmer....if there is any one thing you don't want to skimp on its the skimmer first, the lighting second. Get the best skimmer you can afford and have room for. Many people have personal preferences with skimmers. I use a Lifereef. It is custom made and works incredibly well. It's dummy proof. No adjustments necessary. Jeff from Lifereef makes HOB skimmers as well, just very expensive. That's why I recommended the Aqua C Remora to you. I've heard wonderful things about them from oooodles of RC members. One more time, DON'T SKIMP ON THE SKIMMER. You will wind up buying another one to replace the cheap one.

As far as reading 10 hrs a day and feeling like you know nothing, join the club. :rolleyes: I've been doing the same thing for about a year and a half. And I feel like I know very little. But I'm enjoying every minute of it. I read here on RC for a year before I even added water to my tank. I purchased things slowly over the course of the year and accumulated the hardware I knew I'd need after lots, LOTS of reading and research first. Even then I feel like I went too quick.....and that was after a year. So take it slow and try to become an expert on each piece of equipment you buy. You'll appreciate your choice even more that way.

Sorry, rambling again......Off my soapbox now,
Russ

[TippyToeX]

Originally posted by masterswimmer
I haven't gotten Anthony Calfo's Invert book yet. But that is my next purchase.


Trust me my friend you will thoroughly enjoy it. Do you have his B.O.C.P? Now that is my bible! :D

EvilInSin- Russ and Jeff are right on. I think when you get Bornemans book you will understand more about flow. It's importance is often overlooked IMO & IME. You will enjoy it. Take it with you when you go shopping for coral. A great tool to have on hand.

I've used AquaC Remora's before and was not disappointed. Once you have it tuned in (and it is not difficult to achieve that) you will be set.

I think you will realize that you will always be learning in this hobby. Take pleasure in that if you can. :thumbsup:

[masterswimmer]

I never shop for coral or fish without taking Borneman or Scott Michael with me. They are great conversationalists......lol.

I've learned a lot from those guys and RC as well.

Russ

[VegasMike]

I second the suggestion to give Chris at www.reefermadness.us a call. I have known him for about six years and he is a class act. All of the advice above will get you pointed in the right direction and probably on the way to a bigger tank after not too long. You may want to consider that up front. Also, take a look in the "Nano" forum. You will see a lot of great ideas for your size tank.

After the tank is ready, start adding things SLOWLY. Like was stated above, "nothing good ever happens fast in a reef tank."

Enjoy the hobby and resist the temptation to have an overnight reef. One of my favorite tanks I had was a little ten gallon reef I had before I moved here from Atlanta.

Good luck and keep posting.:)

[EvilInSin]

O My I looked at the skimmer you sugested, and I am confused! It said it comes with a power head ( I can get it with the maxi jet 1200 or a rio something ) ok so do I just need that skimmer kit. or do I need another maxi1200 also?

I guess you can see why I liked the idea of the tank being a full system and me not needing to get any other equipment (till now )

[opihi]

circulation/flow is calculated by the total amount of gph you have running in your tank. that includes powerheads, filtration, etc.

so if you get the remora with maxijet, you will be adding ~295gph (maxijet 1200 rating) to your tank. if you get the skimmer and another maxijet, you will be adding ~590 gph. (295x2).

i use the ~ because the venturi on the skimmer will reduce the gph slightly as will other things like head pressure. but don't worry about any of that for now.

don't worry, it's all confusing stuff when you're just starting out, but over time you'll know all this like the back of your hand and you'll be able to help others :)

[masterswimmer]

Originally posted by EvilInSin
O My I looked at the skimmer you sugested, and I am confused! It said it comes with a power head ( I can get it with the maxi jet 1200 or a rio something ) ok so do I just need that skimmer kit. or do I need another maxi1200 also?

I guess you can see why I liked the idea of the tank being a full system and me not needing to get any other equipment (till now )

Do yourself a big favor, avoid the RIO pumps like the plague. There are many threads and posts on RC about RIOS failing and causing stray electrical currents in tanks (where we put our hands as well as our critters!) Use the maxijets.

Pictures, we want pictures already.

Russ