Quick question about reef inhabitans (cleaners)

[farmernick]

Hey,
I read your article on star fish and it was great!! I was one of the unlucky ones that got a Green Bristle starfish saying that it was calm, fed it twice a week and then about 9 months later and 3 missing fish I am upgrading my tank to a 29 gallon. I am getting rid of the starfish but I was wondering if you have written anything on what types of snails, crabs, etc... would be best for the cleaning crew for a 29 gallon. Also how many of each. I hope you don't mind this question and thanks in advanced for your help.

Thanks,
Nicholas

[Anthony Calfo]

Cheer, Nicholas

thank you for your kind words... I'm very glad you enjoyed the read.

For all of their troubles, those Green Brittle stars really are very handsome and hardy species IMO. They just need to be relegated to tank with larger and sturdier tankmates. If you ever get to see a nicely mature specimen (spanning well over 20" (25 cm) across, I think you will be impressed. Indeed, though... they are not for typical reef tanks with small fishes and inverts.

as for compatability and suitability of other species of utility (snails, crabs, etc.), I have not written any articles specifically on the topic... but I do cover the overwhelming majority of non-cnidarian invertebrates in my "Reef Invertebrates" book co-authored with Robert Fenner. Do check out the review of it onthis message board, at Amazon.com, etc.

If you have a specific question about certain species however, please ask here, on the message board at large, etc.

kindly,

Anthony :)

[farmernick]

Hey,
Thanks for the reply. I guess I was not looking for what each snail or crab was. But I was looking more for about how many of these should be in the average reef tank. I have read alot on the internet and I have seen between 1-2 per gallon (but that is alot of difference). Also if you had lets say a 20 gallon tank and had 20 blue legged crabs and another with 20 red legged crabs that would be alot different since the red legged crabs (not sure real name) are bigger. Also you need a balance to stir the sand, eat algea and clean the glass and rocks.

I did not know if you could give a short write up on about how many to get and if you could give an example of what something like a 20 gallon or whatever size tank would have in it (my new one is going to be a 29 gallon once I get everything transfered from my 10 gallon over).

Thanks,
Nicholas

[Anthony Calfo]

ah, gotcha... you can rest assured that many of the estimates you have read are grossly overstated. Most of these creatures starve to death in time. Please do not worry about adding any such animals if and until you need them. I'm hoping that careful feeding, aggressive skimming, strong water flow (all proper conditions) will eliminate the need for such animals.

Even my biggest reef tanks (300 gall presently) have only a handful of snails (less than 20), no hermit crabs... and just a starfish or two.

Nuisance algae is instead controlled as it should be by aggressive nutrient export.

Ant-

[farmernick]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had no idea. From all that I have read you would think you need any LARGE army of those in a 29 gallon tank to keep everything under control. I have enough in my 10 gallon to keep my 29 gallon fine.

Why is there such a missunderstanding about this then?? Do people just think they can take away a problem of lets say algea with snails and crabs???

I was reading about this one persons tank that was I think a 300 gallon and they were saying that it is because of all those critters that their tanks do so well. I saw a video of it and they showed them feeding the star fish and there where dozens of them comming out of the live rock.

How do you tell if you need more crabs or snails??

Thanks for all of the help with such trivial questions.
Nicholas

[Anthony Calfo]

The perception stems from several different places... one is the fact that many aquarists overstock or overfeed... most folks also do not have enough water flow (or enogh of the right kind... depending instead on dreadful linear flow from powerheads). As such, nuisance algae is a common problem for aquarists. But it is only a challenge in tanks that have nutrient problems... and I trust that you aspire to have a healthy and successful tank, yes? :) Sadly, we can all get some well-intended but frankly innacurate advice from the masses on message boards and from LFS shops at times.

The bottom line still is simple nutrient control. If the nutruients are not let in (poor quality sourte water, poor feeding habits, etc.)and the ones that get in are duly processed (skimmed out rather than left to linger/dissolve, degrade and feed excessive algae) then the common problems will not afflict you and you will not be at the mercy of buying/needing excess "cleaner" animals which are really just treating the symptom and not the problem.

You can still keep/enjoy many of these oranisms... but in numbers closer to 1 per 10 or 20 gallons of water, and not 1 per gallon or two :D

best of luck!

Anthony

[farmernick]

THANKS SO MUCH!!!!!

This is very helpful for me and I hope others as well!!!!!!!!!

I want to keep a thriving and happy well kept reef!!!!!

I do have one other quick question though if you don't mind.

With power heads how do you take the linier flow I am guessing constent in one direction and change that. Could you just put different power heads on some type of timer (like 2 on one and 2 on another timer) and have them shift on and off lets say:

1st set of power heads on for 10 mins. then have the second set on for about 3-4 mins during the time the first set in on. Next the 1st set goes off and the 2nd set is on for about 6 mins and then the 1st set comes back on. AND so on.............

Is this what you are talking about with the water flow??? More like the reef of waves washing on and off of the beach????

THanks for all of your help!!! I will try to use this knowledge and use it to learn and teach others to work on fixing the problems and not just substitute to get rid of the outcome (which leaves the original problem there). ;)

Thanks,
Nicholas

[Anthony Calfo]

Cheers, Nicholas :)

You are definitely on the right track regarding water flow... good intuition.

Indeed the problem with pwer heads is that they are (unassisted) uni-directional... and that is unnatural for all but a few corals (like planar sea fans). MOst corals instead favor or need random turbulent or surge type flow. Surge devices are nifty but generally are too messy (salt creep/splash) and too complicated (size required to work reliably) for most home aquariums. Wave timer devices are also to be avoided IMO as they just are not a good value/method. It makes no sense to me to run 2 X gall per hour water pumps staggered (half potential) when you could instead run them both full time (without a timer) and enjoy full time operation. A nice improvement on this idea are devices like those SQWD units that merely switch the path of water flow.

Without buying extra devioves though, a majority of corals will fare well or better with random turbulent flow which is quite easy to produce with just a little bit of finesse (converging outlets from a manifold fed by a single return pump... or your various powerheads if you must use them).

I wrote several articles on the topic of water flow and posted them at wetwebmedia.com Please do take a peak at some of them... starting perhaps with a keyphrase search from the home page (there a google search tool there) for the article titled "Goodbye Powerheads..."
It summarizes the disadvantages of using powerheads and offers a very inexpensive and effective solution.

keep learning, sharing, growing my friend :)

Anthony

[TippyToeX]

"Plumbing a Water Return Manifold - goodbye powerheads!" (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/pbh2oret.htm)

Water Flow, how much is enough? (http://www.wetwebmedia.com/circmarart.htm)

[farmernick]

WOW!! WHAT AN ARTICLE!!!!!!!!!!

That is a great and insitful article. It really tells you the best way to go and an easy reachable way for everyone to be able to do it.

I am unfrotunately unable to do that at the time but maybe in the future. I did however find a power head that pumps 500 GPH and the head moves from side to side. This should change the motion of the water some for all on the reef to benifet.

Are these pumps ok to use and better than just using it to pump water one way? I know it is not as good as what you stated in that article but I figured it would be better than liminar flow????

I also will be having a refugium on my tank and maybe another power head not sure yet I will see how this new power head works.

But I figure that with my new power head and the refugium I would get (500 GPH power head, 200 GPH refugium{not sure though}). That would be about 23 X turnover an hour. And that is without the extra pump in my tank.

Is that good and should I put the other pump in?? Should I have the powerhead move or point in one direction.

THANKS!!!!!!!
Nicholas

[Anthony Calfo]

No worries... just play around with your various powerheads and try to get them to converge upon each other for the most dynamic flow possible. The goal is to have minimal "dead spots" in the tank... and this will usually be accomplished by placing the pumps in far ends of the tank and aiming them to opposite corners (again, do play around with this). The optimal position of your powerheads really will be influenced by the shape of your tank and the shape of the rock/seascape inside. There is no one ideal position for pumps that can be recommended. Indeed, a case by case basis.

Anthony

[farmernick]

Thanks for all of you insite!!!! I feel I am ready to jump into a HUGE tank now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But I will have to stike with my 29 gallon for now.

Should I use the powerhead that moves while pumping underwater or should I just have it spray one way and not move?

Thanks,
Nicholas

[Anthony Calfo]

do a search for your brand of powerhead to get consumer feedback. Some work well... others have a less reliable reputation. I personally do not care for "sweeping" powerheads.

Ant-

[farmernick]

THANKS FOR EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!