Introduction

[erikcooper]

Hello to all. Name is Erik Cooper, from Marion, AR. I am new to SW and am planning to start a 29g reef. I got the tank empty and want to start small for monetary purposes and to get the good hang of it. I was thinking of getting around 45 lbs. LR and maybe 45-60 lbs. LS? Does that sound good? I have a used RO/DI unit that have no idea how to run but was hoping to get some pictures of and see if anyone could help me out with it. Other than that I am blank as to what to do. I do plan to have a 10g as a sump/refugium. I need any and all advice I can get. Especially on a good quality skimmer that will suit my needs, as well as lighting.

Thanks in advance,
Erik Cooper

[Scuba Dog]

Welcome to Razorback Reef Erik..! yes the 45 to 60 lbs of live rock is plenty for a 29 gallon system, and Im glad your planing on using a refugium and a skimmer sounds like your have been doing your home work...as far as a good qwuality skimmer some of the members might have one for sale, or one of the DIYers might build you one for a fee....lighting will depend on what type of corals you want to keep...but generaly I always recomend a 250 halide that bulb will keep anything alive and thirving, plus when you decide to go bigger tank wise the 250 halide system can be reused....

[jerryc]

Hello Eric glad to have you here :D sounds like you have a
decent layout planned.:cool:
the 45 wood probably be enough rock
as far as a skimmer goes i would recommend a
AquaC urchin pro with a mag-3 to go in your sump
Also would recommend continuing your research and reading
here and other places. you need to get in your mind the
type of corals you want to keep before deciding on a lighting
setup [soft LPS_SPS] it we'll save you dollars down the road
not to half to purchase the same items twice like some of
the rest of us.:rolleyes: anyway welcome ask as many questions
as you feel like someone here will try to answer them :) :) :)

[mcanavan69]

Erik-welcome to reefcentral. This is the place for everything. If I were setting up a new tank and it was my first sw, I would check out www.garf.org.
Check out the bulletproof tank setup. They have been doing this for over 20 years and can tell you what works and what doesnt. I have my 30g reef and 75g reef tanks set up the way they explain. The site is great for new to hobby.
Mark:strooper:

[erikcooper]

The only problem with getting in mind what type of corals I would like to keep is that I have no idea what the different types are... I would venture to say there is no reason to limit myself so if one type of lighting can accomodate all the corals then that would be best. Where is the best place to go about getting MH or PC lighting. I figured the 250w of either would be best. Just wondering how much that is going to set me back... Where do ya'll recommend getting lighting from?

Also on the skimmer, who does DIY ones? Point me in the right direction.

[tiger_eyed1]

Welcome Erik, i'll tell you the truth. It's all about the money. How much money are you willing to pay on your setup today vs having to upgrade later. I evaluated that and decided to take the addiional time to save for the good stuff. I've been going for about a year and just started adding life to my tank.

Do you like softies or hard corals? What colors? Nice or agressive? I go out to the various sites to see what i like. Also look in the members galleries and ask them about their critters if a desc is not given.

Ask away about anything. We like to feel smart so ask away.

I'll let Scuba & DogofWar talk about the lights.

I'm still saving for my lights, est around $800.
Oh, 135g reef display, 30 fuge, 20g sump, 1800gph return, 1400gph closed loop. AquaC Urchin, 110gpdRO/DI

[jerryc]

www.hellolights.com

[thedogofwar]

good to meet you again. :)

:cool: Scuba is always quick to recommend metal halides. ;) I however recomend against it for newbies. Theres very little you can't keep with VHO's or PC in that size tank. The ones you can't, you're not ready for anyway. I have, well did have a 29 until yesterday. A long with the halides comes heat and evaporation issues and sometimes noise is an issue in the living area. You're gonna have your hands full anyway. Smaller tanks are actually harder to suceed with because of their small water volume. Changes happen quickly.

If you decide to upgrade later, you haven't wasted a dime. You've got great supplemental lighting to use as dawn/dusk effect and enhancing color while maintaining the growth of the 10k halides. Thats what I did but I should have used a 250. I can show you an easy DIY 150W VHO set-up for $110 Same one I use, all I have to do is change bulbs and it's ready for the 48"

RO/DI, should b easy enough, do you know the model/manufacturer? How much use on the filters?

If you don't already have the 10 for your fuge, I suggest purchasing a 15High over a 10. Same footprint as the 10 but 6" higher and it's priceless. Make sure you've got the room though.

[Scuba Dog]

erikcooper
Jeff down in monroe louisiana builds pretty much anything DIY skimmers refugiums sumps and all sorts of reactors...he is also one of our members, as far as light systems headhawg 7 up in springdale can get you some great prices on PFO lighting, take some time and look at as many tank pics as you possibly can...that way you can get a feel for what the corals look like...I personaly like sps clam set ups but my wife loves the softies....its all a mater of personal preference...

[erikcooper]

Back again. :)

I would like for the corals to have bright colors. I don't know how much that helps but bright is definitely what I am initially going for. I do like the clams that have the uber colorful openings. I have seen some gorgonians that I like as well. Down the road? Who knows... I have the 29g and the 10g. That combined with the RO/DI unit is basically all I have.

The RO/DI unit has Ametek on it and says model # 1. The serial number is 101239. It also is a 10gpd model I am guessing, which should be plenty for my application. It also could just be a RO or DI alone unit. It has a pre filter and post filter coming out the bottom and i guess the filter horizontally on top of those. As for use on the filters, no idea. I bought it used from someone out of town. I got it and two magnum plus an eheim canisters and 5 powerheads for $100 shipped so I just went for the deal. I knew the canisters were worth the money even if the RO wasn't any good. As long as it works it is good enough for putting out water for a 29g I figure.

I guess I should get ahold of Jeff to see about a skimmer maybe.

What is the PFO lighting that headhawg can get. Also you think the WHO system you are running would keep just about anything I would be able to keep.

What is the best way to go about the fuge? It is also possible for me to get another 10g or a 15g to do a fuge in one and sump in the other.

Well I am once again open to responses/suggestions.

Thanks again :)

[thedogofwar]

The VHO will keep just about anything but I could never reccommend it for clams. I can't recommend anything but Metal Halide for clams. I know some do it on VHO, a LFS included but I wouldn't.

I'll have to do some searching on that ro/di unit but it appears to be a 3 stage and prob doesn't have a DI filter. NP you can add that later if you want.

PFO makes some pretty good lighting equipment and their std ballast performed well against others in the 250MH comparison thread you'll find in the lighting forum.

sump/fuge design is always subject to it's use and space available. Sure you can use 2 seperate tanks and I did just that for awhile. Once again I will have to recommend the 15 even for the sump. I had to fight like hey to avoid microbubbles when using a 10G with 600 GPH cruising through it. The added height of the 15 will help greatly in reducing them. The local petsmart sells them for like $20

[jerryc]

will You probably will want to go with MH for your lighting
if you want to keep clams if you plan to have a hood are diy
one you can get a 250watt mh far under $200. you can
pm headhog to get in Touch with him.
You can go With a MH pendant or Factory hood but if the
tank is going to be in your living area remember you
will have a lot of spiel over from them which can be a little
inconvenient specially far you're living room

[Scuba Dog]

Lighting a reef tank has many options some of which are VHO a floresent system that illuminates long tubes and produces a light source that can keep soft corals, polyps and mushrooms. long polyp stony corals, some sps ( short polyp stony corals) and some of the lower light demanding clams ( if kept up high in the rock work). Then ther are power compacts they take up less space are are about the same intensity of VHO. The best of the floresent lighting is T5's high out put floresents..but they are more expensive that either VHO and power compacts and much more brighter.

Teh there are metal halides that can either be powered by an electronic balast or a magnetic balast...they come in 175 watts 250 and 400 watt configuration...the higher the watt number the beter water depth pentration you will get and a larger amount of PAR (photosyntheticly available radiation which is the band with that cause the corals to live grow and thrive. also there is the double end group that are available in 150 and 250 watts...they also have more par than the single end bulb systems, I went with a 250 double end system on a HQI ballast meaning is a ballast desighned to power up more energy to run the higher out put bulbs...I bought the PFO acrolight fixture for my 75 gallon, its not set up yet so i dont have pics im waiting on a custon canopy to be built to install it.

There Is also the kelvin scale which is color tempature, 6500l is iwasakies producs a yellow light that has lots of par and is the best bulb out there for growth...then there is the 10k a whiter light good growth and ok color, then there is the 12 through 14 k bulbs that are bluer, and finaly the 20 k bulbs that are considered great on color but not so great on growth...I went with the 10 ks. you also supliment methat haldies with either power compacts and vho or t5s with blue actinic bulbs, to create the dusk to dawn effect there purpose is to color up the tank with more blue coloration to make the corals glow and floreses , my fixture came with vho actinics.

If you are wanting the way clorfull clams then your looking at the maximas and croacias...with a 250 single end pendant or 250 double end pendant you could put the clams on the sand bed as oposed to high up in the rock work even on a larger tank such as a 125 or 180 gallon system.

soft corals come in various clors brown, tan, pink, green are the most comon ones, now a orange cup or sun corals is a bright floresent color but id wait several months before that purchase buecause it has to be fed a bunch that can cause your nitrates and phosphates to rase so its best to let the tank mature before that buy...now zoanthids come in every cooror under the rainbo and do well under all types of reef lighting...LPS have long serrper tanticles typical coors are about the same tan brown yellow green , with some purple and pinks out there...

My favorite sps some tan brown yellow orange red purple and blue, but they are the most dificutl to grow and keep alive, they require high light from the halides high calcium and alkalinity levels that need to be consistant, and low or nil phosphate and nitrate levels...to some people like my wife thinks they just look like fuzzy colorfull sticks that just stand there, oh most also require high flow rates, but there are some that is easy to keep like digitata and capricornis just ask the club memberes im constantly handing those frags out...but for the acropors its best to wait till the tank matures into keeping great water quality...

Look up the past tank of the months here on reefcentral and look at the corals they are keeping and learn what knocks your socks off that would be the corals your wanting...but your off to a good start oh almost forgot with metal halide lighting high heat is produced so a cooling system will be needed i get by with cooling fans in my canopy but on some poeples systems may require a chiller depends on the canopy design tank size weather your using a sump or not, and what ambient temp you keep the house at...and what typ[e of pumps you use some really put off some heat...

[erikcooper]

So I could probably get a PFO 250w MH for less than $200? That would be great. What would be some good blue lights for color? Also, what fans do people typically use? I can probably make a good canopy, does anyone have any plans or good designs they like? I doubt I would need a chiller because unheated water in my room stays at around 65 degrees or so.

I will definitely need some help in setting up the sump/refugium system. I haven't done either before and the plumbing would be new to me.

I will keep looking at other tanks to get a better feel for what corals I like.

This tank is going in my bedroom because I still live at home. I am 20 and in school so I don't waste money on my own place.

[jerryc]

Don't know about the PFO but you can get a reactorfit kit
for 145.00 that doesn't include lamp it we'll run from 60 to 100
dollars depending on your choices

[Scuba Dog]

I think a pfo or sunlight supply pendant that comes with the high quality reflector is about 100 bucks, a ushio bulb will run about 70 bucks ....and i thik for a lil over 100bucks you could get the HQI ballast...just shoot headhawg7 a pm and see what he can do for ya...VHO actinis is best for a reef set up....like a work horse or a ice cap, and a aro sp not sure would work fine,....that way at a later date you want to go with a bigger system all you would need to do is buy longer bulbs and use the same ballast...

[Scuba Dog]

as far as the fuge dogofwar aka brandon would be of greator help, all I did was buy a hang on the back fuge for simplicity...although im planing of adding some sumps with built in fuges ...also tigereyed one has been seting his tank up with a fuge i believe he would also be of a great help to you...

[Scuba Dog]

was thinking I would not recomend buying a clam for the first six months of running your tank so you could get buy with a VHO system and later use it for your actinics when you purchase the halide system at a later date when your water quality is able to keep a clam healthy and thriving...the main thing with clams is good water quality meaning no phosphates and nitrates around or under 20ppm...also the calcium and alkalinity levels must be maintained...calcium around 400ppm to 450ppm...alk at least a 9.5 dkh to 12 dkh, that can be maintaind by adding kalkwasser and or a 2part additive, a ca Rx is easiest and keeps the levels balanced with out having to dose frequently but there a bit pricy 300 bucks for one is the best deal i found and went with unless you DIY it yourself to save some bucks...

[erikcooper]

I guess if I can get by with a VHO system for awhile that would definitely save some cash huh? Would definitely be worth it.

[Scuba Dog]

yeah and it can be used for actinics at a later date, once the tank cycles you could start off with lower light demanding corals such as xenia mushrooms zoanthids leathers..and a couple fish..with a 29 gallon set up it would be a good idea to stay on the low fish side.. then later on when your water quality parameters are perfect then add the halide and your clams and then the higher light demanding corals......

[erikcooper]

Only fish I know of right now is clown, maybe a pair and probably occelaris or percula, possibly maroon, and a yellow tang. Gf wants a Sohal Tang but that will have to wait until I have upgraded sizes quite a abit.

So Brandon, what about the VHO system you were telling me of?

BTW, I have been looking and zooanthids, shrooms, ricordea, favia, hammers, and btas have all looked nice. I won't even attempt the bta for a while since I know anemones are harder for beginners but they still look nice.

[thedogofwar]

You can DIY 150W VHO for right about $110. That uses the workhorse7 ballast . Same one I use and can still use even with 48" bulbs. GARF keeps good looking sps under VHO.

yeah the sump/fuge whatever you want isn't a problem, we'll just have to figure out what the purpose of it is for so we can properly design it.

Is the tank still empty? I would seriously consider drilling it. You can do it for about $7 if you have a dremel and even if you need to buy a hole saw, you will still come out ahead by not having to buy an overflow. I never had my overflow fail but I still won't ever purchase another one. Piece-of-mind is priceless.

[thedogofwar]

Originally posted by erikcooper
Only fish I know of right now is clown, maybe a pair and probably occelaris or percula, possibly maroon, and a yellow tang. Gf wants a Sohal Tang but that will have to wait until I have upgraded sizes quite a abit.

So Brandon, what about the VHO system you were telling me of?

BTW, I have been looking and zooanthids, shrooms, ricordea, favia, hammers, and btas have all looked nice. I won't even attempt the bta for a while since I know anemones are harder for beginners but they still look nice. I just missed ya ;)

it's a piece of cake and if you thought you could build a canopy, this DIY won't even be a challenge. It's simple, 2 pairs of waterproof endcaps, 2 75W 24" URI bulbs and a workhorse 7 ballast. Cheapest place I found on the ballasts were reefgeek.com $30 I think.

[erikcooper]

The tank is empty. Well, it has my red bellies in it right as I am waiting on the new heater for their tank but once they are moved out it will be emptied. I will ask about how the best way to do that is at that time. As much as I want to have my reef, I am enjoying this "calmly planning it out" stage.

[Scuba Dog]

lol definitly plan it out well, the better you plan the more money you save lol...

[thedogofwar]

the more sanity you can keep too. :)

The best way to do what? move the red bellies?

I've got the canopy from my 29 I could sell you. It should be 100% plug and play. I was gonna keep it just in case I did something with the 29 again but after I bought the 55 last night, I don't think the 29 will ever be anything except Q-tank. It's got the VHO and MH already installed, PFO parrallell reflector, a cold cathode for moon light and 2 50 CFM fans. I'll get you some details if you're interested. I would prob let it all go for say $175

[erikcooper]

I will definitely check out some details but I don't have any idea why I would turn this down. Although I just missed this month's meeting I guess I could get it next month. I think I have decided to get my LR from Drs. Foster and Smith. I can get 45 lbs. of Fiji from them for like $155 shipped. To get it here in Memphis it would be $5.95/lb. Where is best place to get the LS?

[erikcooper]

The best way to do what? move the red bellies?

Drill the tank :)

[thedogofwar]

best? I don't know. If you have a dremel I'd pick up a set of crafstman diamond tip cutters. They're under $10 and can easily drill a 29. I'd say a hole saw is the easiest but the cheapest I've seen the saws are is the one I got for $50

as for the sand, I don't know. IMO I would try to find a place to get the sand and rock. You can probably save on shipping that way.

[erikcooper]

The only problem is locally the rock would be no cheaper than $5.95/lb. and from Drs. Foster and Smith the 45lb. bundle of Fiji is on sale for $99.99 and shipping on it would be like $53.50. That is like $110 difference in price to have it shipped in rather than buy it locally :0 The only LS I have seen so far locally is little bags or Aragonite LS from Petco which 1) are probably having a lot of die off in those bags and 2) are probably sky high from Petco.

[erikcooper]

I keep forgetting something when I post, they ought to add an edit button. Also meant to say that I mean I will ask when the time comes where to drill and how to set it up. I have seen the pics of your 75g and it looks great.

[thedogofwar]

yeah thats a tough price to beat. I just wondered if Gulf View could be competitive with that when you consider shipping costs.

there is an edit button. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/images/edit.gif :)

[erikcooper]

Ahh, never saw it there. I figured it would be over by the quote button. How can I find out Gulfview's prices? Is the rock as good as Fiji? Do they have it cheaper in LR or NLR than they do here in Memphis? The 2 hour drive would be better for it than the shipment if they do.

[Scuba Dog]

Last year when i was seting up my tank i picked up 36 lbs of lilo live rock from foster and smith and was really plesed with it i think the total was a bout 160 bucks considering shipping its more pours than fiji rock so you could get by with less lbs of it, when i start up the 240 im strongly considering giting some more lilo and mising it up with some tonga branch rock...

[thedogofwar]

check out this Kaelini at reefscience! //www.reefscience.com/web/live_rock.php
there is a thread on it too and the guy has some pics of it fully cured in his gallery, looks pretty good.

appearance wise gulf views is better looking than most Fiji and has more life but it is heavier. under CONTACT in the left colum you'll see "order form" that has a price list.

Northside Aquatics sells the gulf view but I'm not sure for how much. Give them a call tonight, tell them your with the club and thought about a trip over.