Boycot Petco's SW fish!!!

[crrichey]

Hey everyone. It has come to my attention that pretty much all Petco stores treat their fish like dirt, (I don't go there often, and it is certainly not to look at their fish). This I find to be almost criminal, and for this I believe that we as aquarist should boycot petco's fish, and inform others about their practices.

BTW, PLEASE DON'T MOVE THIS THREAD TO RESPOSIBLE REEFKEEPING, I WANT EVERYONE TO SEE THIS, AND NOT MANY PEOPLE VISIT THAT THREAD!

[Cearbhaill]

The Petco in my town has the best looking tanks of any shop.
Not to defend them, but the fish departments are managed by individuals and they all vary.
My Petco also carries ORA fish- and I like that!

Despite the evils of big business and corporate greed- you just can't judge all stores in a chain by one shop.

[koj11]

I shop my local petco as well. The guy who runs it has kept reefs for years and is very knowledgeable.

[wasp]

I think if you are going to say something like - "Hey everyone. It has come to my attention that pretty much all Petco stores treat their fish like dirt," you need to actually be specific about what they did. Let's be fair.
You are asking everybody to boycott the stores on no facts at all.

[sylfish]

I also visit my local Petco, and can say that the clowns I bought there have been in my 29g since last May. I have also bought livestock from a non-chain LFS, and had more problems with those fish. Everyone is different. No two petcos are the same.

[Thunnus]

I know that in Austin, all but one (Aquatek) LFS' have tanks and livestock equally as bad as Petco. I am not going to ban them all. Just go to a trusted source for livestock.

[jango]

i agree that most petco's treat all there animals like crap not just fish,but it really depends on who is running the fish dept,some people at petco actually care and can be very helpful,just dont tell there bosses...
oh yeah i worked there a long time ago (trying to get ferrets into good homes) but there fish dept was excellent the two people who ran it were very knowledgeable..its a little different now

[Rover765]

The problem is that Petco is a corporate chain, so all stores are maintained and operated by the same guidelines. A few stores (a minority) do do an acceptable job, and may be better than a few independent stores in a given area. But the successes in those stores is what allows tha attrocities in the other stores to continue. Kind of like buying clothes from a comapny that uses sweatshops because some of the people were treated okay.

[saltywater180]

The Petco by me is the same way, dead fish in most of the tanks, algea all over, diseases on alot of them, ect., ect. I can't judge all of them as that is the only one I have been to. I can tell you that I will never waste my time going there again. (that store)

[kozmo02]

i think Petco has really cleaned up their act from all the problems they were having and all the negative media attention they were getting, at least that was the case out here in California. I never shop there, but I have been to Petco's before in different areas, they aren't THAT bad, I have seen some LFS in my travelling that are far worse.....

[Aquabucket]

The Petco here in GB is another that has well kept tanks and livestock.

I think the problems need to be solved on a local level. If you see a bad Pet-Co in your area report the abuse to your local ASPCA.

[PUGroyale]

My local Petco carries ORA fish too. It has a small but well maintained saltwater section with varieties of clowns and damsels and then a few specialty fish. It seems to me some of these stores aren't managed as well as others versus a company wide problem. Maybe a few detailed emails to the corporate office would bring about change in the poorly maintained stores. [then again maybe not...I did say corporate] The sad truth is...Iv'e seen much worse tanks at some of the LFS. Dead fish, aiptasia, rotting anemones...etc

[Speckled Grouper]

Cearbhaill, where is that Petco?
I am in South Florida and not familiar with it. I am always looking for new stores to visit and spend money :)
And saltywater180, which one are your referring too so I know to stay away.

[GuidoSarduchi]

Our local Petco isn't that bad. I have DEFINATELY seen worse at other LFSs. I have a coral beauty from Petco... been healthy and strong for over 6 months.

[Aquabucket]

Let's not forget what many fish go through before they even get to a PETCO or LFS. I wonder what % die before they even get to a store? This hobby does have some dark sides to it, it would be nice if we could illiminate all the unethical practices that still run rampant.

At least PETCO is stocking ORA stuff.

A good thing about this site is we can notify other reefers of crappy stores, etc...

[tdtiger]

The Petco in my area in Arcadia, CA. smells fishy. There should be a poll setup for this. If everyone took part of it around the US we would have a much better idea of their overall qualities in saltwater fish keeping.

[Rover765]

A bad lfs with nasty dirty tanks and sick fish will go out of business if it doens't clean up it's act. A bad Petco will continue to get by based on the other good ones out there. Therfore shopping at a good one still supports the bad ones, while shopping at a good independent supports only the independent. :D

[K9]

Man, another PetCo thread. That place needs to give up on selling marine creatures already :lol:. Here's every thread on RC with "petco" in the thread title. Most of them are flames of PetCo and their mistreatment of marine creatures.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=3155357&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

BTW, very good point Rover. Support your local quality LFS! :thumbsup:

[Speckled Grouper]

Well it's Saturday and I usually make my LFS "rounds" today, going north today (did the "south round" last Sat), just found a PETCO in Tamarac and I am going to pay them a visit and see for myself what's going on in there. I will be passing "Aquacon" on my way there and I will NOT be stopping.....

[nanocat]

Originally posted by Rover765
A bad lfs with nasty dirty tanks and sick fish will go out of business if it doens't clean up it's act...
You'd think so, but it must take years and years? There are around 7 LFS (not counting 3 Petcos and 1 Petsmart) within 10 miles of my home in Huntington Beach. One of the LFS is the darkest, dankest, hole-in-the-wall you could imagine...yet he's been in business for years? Go figure? BTW, the Petcos around me sell ORA fish, and I never see ich or dead fish floating around. It's not where I buy fish, but they look good and I've overheard decent fish "advice" when I've been there.

[phenom5]

petco by me has a really good marine dept. good people running it, but i don't shop there. just like everybody said, if you continue to shop there, they'll continue to sell SW fish...the petco across town is horrible...

i can't believe "petco" didn't make the top 10 threads you never want to see on R/C....

[Rover765]

As far as I know, all Petco's sell ORA fish. Sometimes it makes it really difficult for an independent store to get aquacultured stuff because Petrco sucks em all up like a black hole.

[Cearbhaill]

Cearbhaill, where is that Petco?
Commercial and University on the northwest corner.
I don't know that it's worth a big trip as they have maybe eight marine tanks. But if you're looking for basic fish like clowns it's a sure bet to have some and nobody will be floating.

[Ninong]

One of the complaints alleged by the City & County of San Francisco in their lawsuit filed two years ago to block Petco from selling any live animals in San Francisco was that it was corporate policy to place any sick or dying animals in the freezer because that was cheaper than trying to care for them. It was alleged that puppies, kittens, reptiles, fish, anything sick or dying was placed in the freezer as a form of euthanization. That was just one of the complaints. There were many others.

However, according to this May 28, 2004 story in the SF Chronicle, Petco settled a bunch of California lawsuits by paying mucho dinero:

SAN FRANCISCO
Petco settles suits on animal treatment
- Katia Hetter -- Charlie Goodyear -- Suzanne Herel
Friday, May 28, 2004



Petco Animal Supplies Inc. has agreed to pay more than $900,000 to settle lawsuits brought by San Francisco, Marin, San Mateo, San Diego and Los Angeles counties that accused the company of mistreating animals and overcharging customers.

In the settlement with Marin, San Mateo, Los Angeles and San Diego counties, the company agreed to pay $550,000 in civil penalties, $101,754 in investigation costs and $202,500 to install improved pricing accuracy equipment in its California stores, the Marin County district attorney's office said Thursday.

Petco also agreed to implement a daily animal care procedure in its California stores.

The San Diego pet retailer reached a separate settlement with San Francisco, agreeing to pay the city $50,000 and abide by an 18-month injunction requiring the company to refer sick or injured animals to medical care, allow for independent veterinary checks of animals and start specialized training for new workers.The company did not admit wrongdoing in either lawsuit.

San Francisco City Attorney Dennis Herrera sued Petco two years ago, seeking to block the company from selling live animals after Petco allegedly failed to respond to citations alleging illegal treatment of pets at stores on Bryant Street and Sloat Boulevard.

[dbrown]

I once saw a tortoise in a PetCo that was literally on deaths door. I offered to buy the guy at half price with no guarantee so I could take him to the vet, the manager flat out refused and said they have a "reptile guy" that make sure no sick animals are displayed. This was despite the fact this one could not even hold up his own head and its eyes were severely sunken into his head.

I explained they can live for 60+ years and it would be a shame to let this one die so young. His response was basically they had the tortoise awhile and had money invested in him and they "could" take him to a vet if they wanted to so they wouldn't drop the price at all. Anyways, I saw the tort dead the next time I went for dog food (looked like it was dead for days) and it was my last time in a PetCo.

[Wee Man]

i guess the petco experiences are varied because my petco is horrible when it comes to fish, ich all over the place. they a 10 gallon "display tank" with a moorish idol in it, seriously A REAL MOORISH IDOL. thing had so much ich on it the last tiem i sw it, im pretty sure it died.

[wasp]

Putting sick animals in the deep freeze !!
I think I would forget dealing with them, IMO

[crrichey]

From what I have seen, supporting any petco will inevitable help out the "Bad" ones. I have only seen one good petco in my entire life, and that was when I was on vacation. One of my lfs is pretty bad too, but the only reason I support them is not based off of how they treat their livestock. They have some pretty good holding facilities, but because our local albertsons moved, they no longer get the passer-bys they used to. The number of customers has droped by half, and they can hardly afford to care for the animals. It would be sad to see them go.

[Balor]

Simply not to buy the fish would do nothing, it would have to be a complete boycott, tanks, equitment, food, supplies.. to really make a dent on there business

[oama]

Originally posted by Rover765
As far as I know, all Petco's sell ORA fish. Sometimes it makes it really difficult for an independent store to get aquacultured stuff because Petrco sucks em all up like a black hole.


:lol2: Sorry, I fell out of my seat over that statement!

Ummm Not true.

[Matsui56]

Originally posted by Rover765
The problem is that Petco is a corporate chain, so all stores are maintained and operated by the same guidelines. A few stores (a minority) do do an acceptable job, and may be better than a few independent stores in a given area. But the successes in those stores is what allows tha attrocities in the other stores to continue. Kind of like buying clothes from a comapny that uses sweatshops because some of the people were treated okay.

Thats a great post, which I completely agree with.

[Treevore]

I once saw a camel shrimp in their tank, and the tag said: "Reef-safe!"

They would not listen to me.

[crrichey]

Ok, scratch that, maybe a boycot on all petco things would be better, I simply can't stand the fact that they are allowed to run business this way!

[orionsmamma]

What is ORA? I'm assuming it is something to do with tank raised fish.
On another note, I was in a petco the other day, (I dont often visit petco, I gave up on them while I was caring for herps, they allways have animals in terrible condition) and saw what I think was some sort of angler. I stared at it for a long time before I realized it wasn't a rock! It must have been at least a foot long, and it was sucking water in through its mouth, and blowing it out through holes in its fins (I want to say "elbow" area lol) It had maybey 3 inches above and below it, and covered the tank in around 5-6 body lengths. I'm very new to this hobby, but it seemed like this was probly a deep water fish, and I just felt so sorry for it. Very interesting fish, I wish I knew exactly what it was. (petco's labels are very uninformative!)

[Ninong]

Originally posted by orionsmamma
What is ORA?

http://www.orafarm.com/

[Nanook]

[moved]

[tdtiger]

About that lawsuit...what happens if they refuse medical service to their pets/fish in display?

As far as boycotting the whole store, yes that would affect Petco as a whole, but boycotting the fish dept by itself would discourage them from selling fish in their shops. Most people I believe go to Petco because of their low prices on dog food and kitty litter and such.

I wouldnt shop there even if they were giving away free fish. I'd take the fish though if no strings attached.

[David Kurrasch]

Here in the Dallas/Fort Worth area we have several Petco stores, some have very good saltwater departments, and some not so great. The better ones consistently offer healthy livestock at better prices than other local fish stores. As long as they keep selling the same fish cheaper than I can buy them elsewhere, I will continue to shop there. I have fish in my tank that came from Petco that have been doing well for over three years. I don't think a lot of their employees are knowledgeable about keeping marine animals, but this is also true of most of the other fish stores in the area. If I were to boycott every store that I've seen bad treatment of fish in, I'd have no place left to shop!

[stupidfish]

I Agree and not agree with what david has to say. There are alot of people out there just to make money, that is what makes the world go round. I agree that most of the petco's and petsmart's in my area have there problems due to no training what so ever, lets face it they probly only make minimum wage. Kids looking for a summer job. Its not hard to read a label basicly, we all can do that, RIGHT!!! I like to go and ask them Questions just to see how much they know. I do that at every LFS. If there rude or not knowing or giveing info that is false I just simply refuse to go back. We need to support the ones that are great even if they sell them for a couple $ more. But it is you and how you place your morals. But hey thats just the way I feel..

[pubily]

The Petco in Peoria has tanks as clean or cleaner than any lfs in the area. Frankly I don't buy there basically because of doubts and comments made on RC...but to be fair I've never seen fish that weren't attended to.

I do think they're pricey compared to a local lfs I use often. For those condemning all Petco's in the country I'd offer this comment...ALL GENERALIZATIONS ARE FALSE INCLUDING THIS ONE! In our attempts to oversimplify we become fools and tie ourselves up in logical knots.

[saltywater180]

Originally posted by Speckled Grouper
Cearbhaill, where is that Petco?
I am in South Florida and not familiar with it. I am always looking for new stores to visit and spend money :)
And saltywater180, which one are your referring too so I know to stay away.



It's in Tallahasse, Fl.

[Hoggn]

I have 2 Petcos in my area. They are about 20 minutes apart and worlds apart on tank care. One store is terrible and the other one suprised me on how clean the tanks were. I will not buy anything from them unless I have too. I think the prices are crazy... I only bought 1 fish from them and it is a Mandarin. I have him for about 2-3 months now and he is doing great.

[Greg's Got Fish 129]

Same thing where I live kgalich. The one closest to my house has a terrible s/w fish department, the others is decent. But, at least the people are friendly, hinest, and somewhat knowledgeable at the bad store. I saw 3 labels that said "True Perculas", "Tomato Clownfish", and "Ocellaris Clownfish", but there were no fish and the last time I was there was 2 days before. And I said outloud "Whoa those sold quickly" And the guy said "No the didn't sell, they all died" then he said "I wouldn't buy fish here for a while or at least until the fish guy comes in". I was glad the guy was being honest with me and he knew a decent amount about s/w fish. But, I didn't like when he recommended I get Damselfish for tank testers.

[wds21921]

I went through this discussion with another reefer on here in another thread and came up with this solution, at least for myself.

1) You can't offer a blanket statement because of one store, whether it's an individual LFS, a small chain or a large chain. Each comment should be on a per incident basis of that individual store.

2) If we added up all the bad LFS's and the total number of Petco's that don't take care of there fish I think the overall numbers would reflect how bad the LFS business really is comparatively. I am not defending Petco here.

3) ANY store that seems to be not properly caring for their animals should be reported. That includes on here, ASPCA, as well as your local paper, local officials, and any clubs.

In my area we recently had a local pet store that was selling dogs, cats, rodents, reptiles, everything but fish. The animals were not well cared for at all and in very close quarters of each other. It took almost 12 official complaints before someone went down there to check it out.
Finally, the SPCA and local officials had no choice but to close them down after a public backlash and suspend there business license. After a court hearing, they recieved some pretty hefty fines, no chance of owning ANY type of business in the area ever again and even a short jail term.

The idea that Petco is the evil menace to the hobby may have some validity to it but those same facts are also viably arguable for a lot of LFS's as well as with many other pet stores in general.
If one Petco or one LFS or pet store is acting responsibly they should be commended for it.
If ONE store isn't, they should be reported, period. Offering general statements and discriminating against what may also affect responsible people performing repsonsible animal husbandry isn't doing anyone any good or the animals.
That in itself is irresponsible.

[Shoestring Reefer]

Originally posted by tdtiger
As far as boycotting the whole store, yes that would affect Petco as a whole, but boycotting the fish dept by itself would discourage them from selling fish in their shops. Most people I believe go to Petco because of their low prices on dog food and kitty litter and such. I agree 100%.

FWIW, I don't shop at PETCO even though the fish department looks "pretty good" lately. I don't want to support the PETCO corp untill they get some better corporate-wide policies.

On the other hand, PETCO is a big customer for ORA, and it's good that a national chain is doing that. I just wish they would improve on their corporate-wide husbandry policies/practices.

[CH]

I have never shopped at a Petco, but decided to check out one of the local ones here. I was not impressed, in fact I was bit upset. They had a few fish that looked ok, but not 100%.
Then there was a yellow Tang that was not really all that yellow anymore, and was extremely skinny a not looking good at all.
I don't even remember what else they had, but I know I won't be going back!

[percula3]

Aqua bucket I have to agree with you on the GB petco's. The west side one is better in my opinion becuase the salt tanks seem to be larger with the same population of fish.

Just my 2 cents

[daytona955]

I would say it could vary, but they get fish in all the time that have ich and such straight from their distributor. I will never buy fish there even if they look healthy. I don't think a boycott is in order as most people will just not buy fish there after an experience or two with their fish.

[wds21921]

It's still funny to me that a lot of the people on here will preach the evils of Petco yet when they walk into a LFS and see dead fish dried up on the shelves, floors or floating in a tank they don't draw the same reaction.
Everything that would be considered bad at Petco I've also seen at almost every LFS I've visited at one time or another. I'm not saying Petco isn't wrong for what they may or may not be doing. What I'm saying is that it's easier to identify them because all the stores exist under one name. The LFS's operate under hundreds or even thousands of names and are doing the same thing if not worse.

The one and perhaps only good point that could be made across the board for Petco is the fact that they are ORA's biggest customer. I doubt if you considered the wholesale cost of there fish, most LFS's would do most of there business with them. That will hopefully change in the future as the costs come down to acceptable market wholesale costs.
What I'm saying is it's easier to point a finger at Petco because of the corporate image idea. Most of our LFS's aren't much better if you really get down to it.
Both sources need to work to provide customers with more accurate information and begin to question the unscientific data that's used to sell a lot of the products on the market today.

If your going to judge any business by what there fish look like when they come in then you need to go back to the distributor who is the real source of the problem most times.

If I had a dollar for everytime I passed by a chain pet store (even small ones) versus the times I got bad information from a LFS who's owner knew as much about the animal they were selling as I do about nuclear science I'd be a very rich man.

It's easier to identify Petco or Petsmart because they operate under one name but consider soem of the bad things you've had happen at a LFS and I'd say they were probably very close to each other.

This is not to say there aren't good LFS or good individual Petco's either. I'm just saying that what we need is a lot of overhaul in the market period, from both angles.

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

I steal my best customers from petco i go in hang around when no one helps them i help myself to them !

[daytona955]

I would have to disagree. Mayeb I am just spoiled by the LFS in my area, but compared to the 3 petco's I have visited in my area (all f which have bad fish all the time) the local stores seem to almost always haev good looking fish, good conditions and take care of their store.

I agree that every store is going to have the occasional dead fish or diseased fish, but when almost all of them are that way almost all the time, something is wrong. But, as I have stated before, economics will work this out in the long run. People will just stop buying from these stores.

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

we have petco and pets mart acroos the street from each other less than 1k feet !!

[greenman]

I will have to say the petco's around me have some healty stuff and some stuff that looks really bad. The ones in my area I am sure they lose alot of fish or they get sold and end up dieing. But the one thing I can't ***** about is the pirce. Im sure more of the petcos out there are run by younger ppl lacking knoledge or who dont care. plus its not like a small shop or a big guy "INTO SALT" they have more invested and try to make money!

Im not bashing all of them. I am sure some of them have ppl that know what there doing.

Petco is a large Crop and they are capitalizing.....

[SOMEthinsFISHY]

when they sell an 80 dollar fish for 12 dols they sure look stupid !

[Entropy]

I love these threads.... Petco is actually the only store I have bought fish from that has a 100% survival record so far. I lost two of my clowns that I got from Petco but one was several months later and the other was over a year so I believe the fault was mine and not anything to do with Petco. On the other hand, the three LFS in my area are 0%, 0%, 25% survival rate... They usually have a much better selection than Petco, but what good is that if they die in the first week anway. :rolleyes:

[wds21921]

Good point Entropy. Most people fail to realize that many fish from large private distributors are STILL caught in their native lands using poisons such as quinine and other nice chemicals that really enhance the quality of these waterways.
While it does not excuse any pet store that does not take of it's animals, how do you justify still using poison to catch fish which was an issue 20 years ago?
A lot of LFS's will simply reply that they're fish are hand or bet caught, BS! Most don't even know and cannot tell you the actual chain they came through to their arrive at there store.

[wds21921]

Net caught, my error!