PDA

View Full Version : LFS in Las Vegas


willied0036
05/26/2004, 10:46 AM
I'll will be in Vegas this weekend and want to check out the LFS,I know from reading they are not worth the visit but I want to check them all out,and I have a few Questions if any one would reply
1. How many people are members of the local reef clubs?(L.V.V.R., LVMAS)
2. Why do the LFS suck(what would you charge)
3. Are their enough reefers in Vegas to support a nice store and would they?(since the reefers there have become acustom to online vendors)

opihi
05/26/2004, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by willied0036
I'll will be in Vegas this weekend and want to check out the LFS,I know from reading they are not worth the visit but I want to check them all out,and I have a few Questions if any one would reply
1. How many people are members of the local reef clubs?(L.V.V.R., LVMAS)
2. Why do the LFS suck(what would you charge)
3. Are their enough reefers in Vegas to support a nice store and would they?(since the reefers there have become acustom to online vendors)

Hey Willie,
thanks for opening a new post. to expand on the explanations i gave before, one of the main reasons i've heard that the LFS are poor here is that all the good stuff goes to bigger markets like LA, the Bay Area and Oregon. because LFS buyers for those areas can order in bulk, they get top pickings at the distributorships, and LV buyers have to pick up what's left.

as for LFS pricing, i don't believe they're all greedy. i think they are working with such a limited market, that they need to raise prices to cover their expenses.

the last question is the million dollar question. i bet everyone everyone here would like to open or see a nice store in Las Vegas. the question is, arethere enough people here to keep you in business? i personally do not know. you'll have to do your market research for that one. :)

all these are my general observations from visiting each store. perhaps others with longer experiences here can chime in.

jeff

willied0036
05/26/2004, 11:38 AM
according to demo. and market Las Vegas could support several LFS easily,population of 650,000 and 5000 new residents a month,hobbist tend to leave a hobby if its work,with there not being any decent stores it becomes a pain so hobbist tend to drop off,if a store was to open it would have to get people back in to the hobby and that takes time could be a long hard road for the owner. I do intend to open a store when I get out of the military late 2006,that's why I work at a fish store part time,and I am in the planning phase now looking for location. Las Vegas just happens to be one of the markets I am looking at. It looks good on paper,but the fact that none of the LFS tend to thrive has me here asking why and what the locals think.

opihi
05/26/2004, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by willied0036
It looks good on paper,but the fact that none of the LFS tend to thrive has me here asking why...

my thoughts exactly. i think local reefers have just accepted the fact that the stores here are what they are, and those that want better do mail order. one of the goals of this club is to raise the bar for reefing in Las Vegas, tall order i know, but logically speaking, i there should be more than enough room for a couple of good LFS here.

willied0036
05/26/2004, 12:24 PM
Getting good livestock is not a problem,a store in Vegas could easily have great livestock and even hand select it,the livestock issue is not about who has the bigger market,its about the early bird gets the worm remember Vegas is only 4 hours from LA, the hub of this hobby 90 percent of livestock passes thur LA,and last time I checked Las Vegas had a international airport as well

opihi
05/26/2004, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by willied0036
the livestock issue is not about who has the bigger market,its about the early bird gets the worm...

i see that you work in a fish store, so i don't doubt your expertise. i have heard first hand of a vendor in California who had a deal with one of the distributors to let them cherry pick the first 20 pieces of their shipments. i don't know if that was a personal arrangement, or if it was because the vendor sold a lot of stuff. point is that it's not always about the early bird. unless prearranged picking counts as being super early. :P

TippyToeX
05/26/2004, 03:09 PM
1. How many people are members of the local reef clubs?(L.V.V.R., LVMAS)

I really have no idea. :D LVVR is so brand spanking new.
I believe (do PM Howard over at LVMAS, or post there) that he has quite a few people on his mailing list. Exact number I do not have.

2. Why do the LFS suck(what would you charge)

IMHO is is a number of things. The poor and limited selection of coral. I see more damaged, dying, sickly corals being so then I would ever wish to see. Not limited to any one store either. Yet the prices they are marked at are atrocious. Some very arrogant staff (not at all knowledgeable) at a number of LFS as well. Their lack of ethics to the sale and husbandry of their fish & coral is appalling.

3. Are their enough reefers in Vegas to support a nice store and would they)

IMHO from what I have seen I would say yes. If a good LFS were to open, healthy stock, great selection, well maintained, friendly and not out to rape you on price, I think many would flock to it.


It looks good on paper,but the fact that none of the LFS tend to thrive has me here asking why and what the locals think.

The ones that do not thrive in our area are for the more obvious reason stated in my previous reply. No one in their right mind would want to support them. They are not at all good (in any sense of the word. ATM2 can get good fish in. But diseased and malnutrition is written all over them.


Getting good livestock is not a problem,a store in Vegas could easily have great livestock and even hand select it,the livestock issue is not about who has the bigger market,its about the early bird gets the worm remember Vegas is only 4 hours from LA, the hub of this hobby 90 percent of livestock passes thur LA,and last time I checked Las Vegas had a international airport as well

Oh they can get them have no doubt, good stock/coral that is. You can see that from their display tanks. I am sure it is quite limited as most of the LFS here could care less what they sell to their customers. They make enough money selling what they do. As sad as that is it is my belief. They could easily demand better coral from their supplier.

I agree with Jeff whole heartily. LVVR wants to raise the bar for our LFS. Not only but supporting any efforts they make in improving their treatment/supply/ethics of livestock, but by educating our members that it does not have to be this way. We can require more from them. I am from the bay area as well. Having seen some of the most amazing LFS in the US. I know personally how good it can be. :)

Justdrew
05/26/2004, 07:42 PM
according to demo. and market Las Vegas could support several LFS easily,population of 650,000 and 5000 new residents a month,

Hi,

Is that an old number. I thought the current number was over 1.5M and creeping up on 2M. Just curious.

Thanks
Drew

Shak
05/27/2004, 01:09 AM
Having owned and operated a successful LFS in this area (not Las Vegas), as well as having known 2 VERY succesful LFS that used to be here, it is my opinion that this town would support 4-5 good LFS very easily.

Would I ever do it again? Not likely.

I'm not trying to discourage anyone from this opportunity, as Las Vegas would be a prime market to start out in, just please make sure you know whats in store for you. PM me if you want to know what a typical work week was for me, its enough to make most persons queasy so I wont post on a public forum ;)

willied0036
05/27/2004, 09:36 AM
That is a current number,If you were to add the unincorperated areas it would be around 1.5.

Thanks Shak I will have some Q's for you,right now I work seven days a week and put in over 80 hours a week so I dont think the long hours will be a shock to me

Is ATM the only lfs in Vegas right now?

Shak
05/27/2004, 12:25 PM
Check my unbiased (yeah right) review of LFS in Vegas at THIS (http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365544) thread.

To add one more LFS to the list:

Tropical Expressions - omg dont do it! Store is about 300 square feet, 15 tanks or so, total of 7-9 fish. Tanks were dirty, no dry goods for sale at all. Its a shame really, and thats all I have to say about that.

Nanighan
05/27/2004, 11:59 PM
I think ATM2 is not bad for fish. Go there on wednesday's when they get most of thier stuff in. If they notice you buy frequently from them, they sometimes give you a discount, on livestock. Has anyone ever noticed an austrailian arowana that was there for month's. That was mine. traded him for salt(I was desperate!)
Ron

VegasMike
05/28/2004, 11:15 AM
ATM II is Ok "sometimes" for fish. It just eats at me to hear the bad advice they give people, especially with regards to reefs. Their coralis pathetic, but that is pretty much on par with every LFS here.

Give the gal at Tropical Expressions a break. Her name is Jackie (sp?). She used to work at ATM about three years ago and then tried her hand with a partner at Yellow Submarine. I don't know what happenned there, but Tropical Expressions is her attempt to go it alone. She has a very small store, but, again, she is really trying to go it alone with minimal resources. I was in there last week and they were getting another system on-line to increase her stock. She will order anything you want and really doesn't charge enough af a mark-up for that. She is a good person and I enjoy doing business with her. As soon as she gets a system on-line with adequate lighting, I will probably give her a few frags. At least I have never heard her give outright bad advice to anyone. Would I just drop in to see what they had? Not if it was too long a drive, but since I work about ten minutes away, I will drop in on Wednesdays to see the new stock about once a month.

Oh yea, Jackie just started carrying Cyclopeeze .:)

TippyToeX
05/28/2004, 12:09 PM
OMG! She carries cyclop-eeze! ::Amy does a dance:: Thank you for that bit of information. I will save big time for feed my clown fry. :D

I was disappointed when I went into T.E. not so long ago. From what you are saying Mike she sounds like she is trying to improve her store. I will be sure to drop in soon to see how it is moving along. Help her out with some frags as well if I am happy with her stock/ethics yadda yadda. :p

Nanighan
05/28/2004, 12:11 PM
Mike or anybody else, what is the fastest way to get to Tropical Expressions from Sahara and Rampart. Id like to check it out.

Shak
05/28/2004, 04:05 PM
I just took Jones north from the 95 to Cheyenne.

Mike: I've done business with Jaque in the past when she used to work for Lance and Micki at Rainbow Seascapes. That was 7-8 years ago of course, but she has always been knowledgable though sometimes a bit gruff. I'd definatly give her a chance, didnt realize she is going it alone with minimal resources, although that explains the lack of merchandise in the store. Your right, I retract my statement earlier, if she can get some adequate systems set up in there eventually, then i'd consider giving her my business if I ever get out that direction. My problem is I live in Seven Hills, about as far away as you can get without being in California :)

She didnt have Cyclop-Eeze when I was in there last week darnit! Is she carrying the freeze-dried or the frozen or both? I ordered a years supply of freeze dried already, but would love to get some frozen.

VegasMike
05/28/2004, 04:30 PM
From Sahara and Rampart......Do you mean from ATM II?:D

From there, I would just go north on Rampart until you hit Cheyenne. Take a right on Cheyenne and then take a left on Jones. Her store is on the northeast corner of Jones and Cheyenne facing Jones. Don't expect much, like I said, she is just trying to make a go of it and will order anything you like. She just got me eight Lyretail Anthias in extremely go shape, eating flake within a day.

I told her about Cyclopeeze and actually told the Cycolpeeze folks about her. They contacted her and she decided to try some. She called me late last week and told me thank you because all of her fish ate it right away, which for her, could save some new livestock that wouldn't otherwise eat.

I would call her before you make the trip to make sure she has it first. I think she has the frozen though.

I had forgotten she was at Rainbow before ATM, but that was before I moved here four years ago. I still talk to Miles every one in a while.

Nanighan
05/29/2004, 01:12 AM
Thanks folks.

Nanighan
05/29/2004, 01:18 AM
oh yeah Mike I go to ATM2 just to see the fishes, kinda like a zoo. I don't live that far away from it. One time I caught the owner (is he Johnny?) smoking in the store. I'm sure that's not good for the fishes!! lol

VegasMike
06/01/2004, 12:22 PM
The owner's name is Wade. I think you may have talked to one of his relatives, brother-in-law I think.

He is one of the resident "experts" that tried to sell me a female Jap. Swallowtail Angel as a Male. I ended up schooling him a bit and purchased a Red Sea Regal Angel for $80. He is an OK guy, he apologized and gave me a good discount on the angel for my troubles of going to the store to pick up my male swallowtail. Just don't ask him too many questions if you plan to rely on the answers.

By the way, the Angel is doing great, been about a month.

LVfishguy
06/14/2004, 01:17 PM
Sorry to barge in here but I felt the need to defend my store here a bit. Are Store "Green Valley Aquariiums" Has been up and running now for almost 5 years. And to be honest, When we started, we had no idea the amount of business there was in the reef keeping forum. Yeah I know bad on us.
Anyway, getting bad to the topic on hand. You all have to understand that your knowladge level is on a greater level than about 90% ot the fish keeping population so by walking into a store you are more than likely going to know more about S/W systems then any of the people that I am paying to work there. I have tried on more than one ocassion to hire a "HOBBIEST" to help in a store and they all have done nothing but burn us in the long run.
We do try however to run an honest business and do eveything in our reasonable power to make everyone happy.
and buy the way, I carry Cycolpeeze also. I sell it like crazy so call first.

opihi
06/14/2004, 01:26 PM
Glad to see a response from a LFS. you are not barging in, everyone is welcome to post here. i hope you visit us more often, there's a lot we can learn from each other.

i wouldn't mind working part time at your store, i sent you a PM. :)

jeff

LVfishguy
06/14/2004, 01:29 PM
I also forgot I have a boat load of bulkheads 1" 3/4" 1/2" and 1 1/2"

TippyToeX
06/14/2004, 02:24 PM
I too am glad to hear from a LFS!

I hope you stick with us Chris. :)

Shak
06/14/2004, 04:55 PM
I've talked to Chris on several occasions and have always found him to be friendly, knowledgable and helpful. I can feel for you on the employee situation, that was always by far my greatest headache and concern, honesty is simply very difficult to find in employees you can only afford to pay low scale wages. I can sympathize believe me.

By far the best experiences I had were with hobbyists that worked part time and did not rely on the income. My store manager for the last 3.5 years was a reef fanatic, she wrote articles for the old reef magazine of the day (forgot the name, its gone now). I had no trouble leaving her in charge for days at a time while I was on big custom installs. I lucked out with her, but she was the rare case.

My biggest complaint about GVA is the retail pricing structure, your a bit out of balance on your dry goods, though the fish pricing is often reasonable. Yes I do know about your overhead, but volume sales are far more profitable than infrequent, high margin sales. I had a petsmart 1/2 a mile from my store, but I bet I sold 10x the marine fish (they didnt have any at all, this was a big differentiater), filter systems, filter media, and new set-ups than they did, due largely to the fact that I knew my stuff, imparted the excitement of the hobby, and taught them the correct way to do things. I also made sure my prices werent to far out of line to the point that I'd do they teaching but petsmart would get the sale. Its a fine balance but I did very well at it. I could go on and on, I had a million and one ideas to boost sales and keep prices fair.

By far one of the best was my frequent buyers card, 20% discount on ALL purchases, talk about my customers not shopping anywhere else, so what if i didnt make as much, a sale not lost to a competitor is just one more in your pocket. A customer got the card several different ways: 1) buy your complete system from me on start up...2) Two seperate purchases over $100 or 3) Made 10 smaller purchases from my store. I'd also pass the cards out at networking functions in town, home shows which featured my systems, friends, family, and so on.

I also did huge blow out sales depending on what products my wholesaler had on special, I gave 10% of the profit on every sale of these items back to the employee, talk about a great motivator, this stuff flew off the shelves. I could go on and on, but i'll shut up now :) Whoa did I get off track or what?

I do appreciate the fact that you will take back fish that are healthy but can no longer be housed by my aquarium. I think I got about 1/3 retail back on them, which is fair (I aways gave 50% back with reciept, 33% without if the fish was healthy and resellable). ATM no longer takes fish back at all, or so the signs say posted about 15x in the store. This helps to set you apart, keep it up!

They have quite a few barbed fittings and bulkheads, I went through the stuff on your back room shelf a few weeks ago and found just what i needed.

And no you do not carry Cyclop-eeze, at least according to Julie, but you are thinking about it (I spoke with her yesterday, something about the minimum order?) :lol:
Make sure you post on here when you get a new shipment, especially frozen, I'll be there 15 mins later. Another heads up, Julie ordered several of the Rio Sieo's when I told her about them, I had already purchased one so I didnt get one from her yesterday but I may pick up one more. I love the thing, works like a champ and huge flow rate compared to my maxi-jets.

Last thing then i'll quit rambling.....lets get you a frag/SPS tank set up Chris! We're all hungry for some SPS here in town, you'd clean up!

the Undone guy
06/26/2004, 06:11 AM
hey guys, it seems that most stores in vegas seem to be pretty "blah" when it comes to reef keeping, i havent been too thrilled about any of them.

GVA was the first clean fish store I vistited in town after i got into the hobby a few months ago, Adam (give this guy a raise before he leaves chris) was a great help and made me want to come back thanks to his friendly customer service and wealth of knowledge even though ive schooled him a few times. GVA is still my first choice for livestock because i like picking out my own fish, and they keep their fish well fed and fairly healthy. The markup on their dry goods is enormous but they have to make money somewhere~ One thing that does disturb me though is most of the time when they stock BTA's or any type of anemone it is usually bleached or is in the process of bleaching. I've only seen one or two healthy anemone's in my many many visits. Although I am glad to see that Chris is around browsing reef central!

And chris, if you would like some help with the website or what not, PM me and maybe we can work something out =)

FISH has a friendly staff even though their store is very humid and smells like, a fish store. I've never bought livestock from them so i cant really comment on this area, but i go there from time to time just to browse since it's on the way to a lot of places.

ATM (the one on Rainbow and Rampart) is horrible in my opinion. I've been there multiple times and the guy who works there most of the time doesnt even care that you're in the store, and i never get the feeling that he gives a crap. Ill never go there again.

ATM (on annie okley and russell?) isn't too bad in my opinion. The gentleman who works in the retail section is actually quite personable and enjoys talking stuff over with people. I actually bought some Novus from him the other day and he was cool enough to show me how to use it properly on their front display tank. I dont really like their fish selection or how they house them though. They do keep their corals under MH and seem to have a few that are healthy looking, but i havent really checked out their prices. I'm hoping to find a few ppl in town that are willing to sell some frags instead =)

oh, and lets not forget PET STOP, if you could even concider them a contender. Their store is filthier than filth, and has very smelly monkeys right behind the fish section. Occasionally i've found a good deal there on some sand or salt, but i wouldnt advise going there. Their staff is not knowledgable at all. They do stock fiddler crabs there for my eel though!

Havent checked out Tropical Expressions yet....

and honestly i dont think Trop Aquariums deserves mention, especially in the Salt-Water community, their employee's smoke in the store, enough said.