Still having a hair algae problem

[fishdoc11]

Ok, I have tried everything I know to try. Water changes, manual removal, adding more astreas, turbos, scarlet and Mexican red leg hermits. I now have 50+ snails and ~50 hermits in both the 55 and the 75. My NO3 and PO4 tests 0 in both tanks. The 55 has gotten better and I think is on it's way to being relatively algae free. The 75 however seems to be getting worse. I can't add any more fish. I am going to do a week long series of 10 gal water changes and manual removal every day in the 75 to try to get it under control. Any suggestions?

[Sir Knight]

What you are doing should help. I do have one other idea for you.
You may want to bring your alk level up to 11 to 12 dkh and your Ca up to around 450, if they aren't already at these levels. I have found when all else fails this helps, in addition to removing and water changes.

[fishdoc11]

Thanks Joe, my alk has been staying at 11 or a little higher since I brought it up and my calcium stays at about 425. That seems to about be it's limit since I added 2 clams. Before that it was 450. The funny thing is between the algae and the XM's going bad my tank looks worse than it has in a long time 3 weeks before everyone is coming over. Oh well, maybe it will get better.
thanks, Chris

[Sir Knight]

Chris,
The same thing happened to me when I had the club over for a meeting. luckily everyone was interested in my greenhouse. Anyway, I had a 65 gallon tank in my living room that had a couple of fish, live rock and about 50 lbs of hair algae. I just called it a refug as a joke.
I could never get it under control. I tried cleaning the rock a couple of times but the algae just kept coming back. So I took the tank down removed all the rock and let it dry. I later was able to clean the rock by peeling the algae off like paper. I broke the rock up and used a couple of pieces for frags. Those were the only frags I had that had algae growing on them. I think it was something in the rock. It was Fiji live rock by the way. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with Fiji rock just the rock that I got that day.

[fishdoc11]

The thing is this tank has been virtually hair algae free for 2.5 yrs. I'm pretty sure it's Derbesia(sp?). I am going to look at a piece under a microscope later this week to be sure. I'm reading Sprungs algae book now so maybe that will give me something.
thanks, Chris

[Sir Knight]

Hey Chris,
Just one more idea after you get it under control.
I think lawn mower blennies eat Derbesia

[SRA4031]

I am getting one for my tank. I have also been told that urchins help.

[gflat65]

I was going to recommend the lawnmower blenny, but I wasn't sure if you wanted to add another fish. I had a years worth of hair algae when I started. When you looked in the tank, there were nothing but continuous strands of hair that covered all rock and glass. A huge wavy mess. It was disgusting. The producers of the musical HAIR would have loved it. I put in my first lawnmower, and in two weeks you could actually see the rocks and glass. Of course, there were many semi pelletized versions of the hair algae all over the sand, but those are easier to remove. Lawnmowers have some of the best personality of the fish I've owned. If you have a cat that likes to attack fish, the lawnmower will keep the cat busy, adding yet another avenue of enjoyment.

[fishdoc11]

I have seriously considered a lawnmower blenny but I really don't need to add any more fish, that will only add to my algae problem. I might end up putting one in when I change the tank if I haven't gotten it under control by then. It will take a couple of weeks or more to find one I want and then 3 weeks of QT(minimum) anyway.
thanks, Chris

[reewik]

Last time I was there there was jsut a couple tufts of it in the 75. Has it gotten worse? I know for me one little tuft is an issue.

I hate the stuff. I had it in a 29 reef I had and like joe i could not get rid of it.

I hope you can take care of that stuff.

[fishdoc11]

It's a lot worse. I hope I can take care of it too.
thanks, Chris

[DT's_Reef]

I, too, am going through a hair algae problem in my 90 gallon.

I've been doing everything possible for the last couple of months to no avail. I feed lightly, have a EuroReef CS8-2, Phosban reactor which runs 24/7, Nilsen reactor, Tunze Stream system, and a chiller that keeps the temperature at 79 and I still can't get rid of the hair algae. I've scrubbed it clean off the rocks a couple of times, and use a filter sock 24/7 too.

I've had a reef tank for the last 13 years and this is the first time I've had a bad hair algae problem. Heck, I used to wonder how people managed to get hair algae!

My hair algae problem developed about 7 months after setting up a new system which used different rock (Vanisi). My old tank had Marshall Island rock, which I sold to a friend.

I also have wondered if the type of live rock can have any influence on the development of hair algae. The rock that came with my new tank had lots of macro on it.

[rcmike]

I think it does because I have had problems where algae would grow on some rocks and not others. Maybe some have phosphate or other nutrients bound up in the rock and the algae is sucking it out? I know cyano can do that but I don't know about hair algae.

[fishdoc11]

I feel your pain DT's. I used to wonder how people got hair algae too. I have also all but determined that my hair algae has come from the rock I used to set up my 55 a few moths ago(Fiji). I used one rock in my 75 to fill in a space and wish I wouldn't have. One thing Sprung has said a couple of times in his book is that outbreaks like these can take a while to get under control. I am systematically scrubbing all the rocks and changing out 10 gallons a day while I do. I'll do this for 1 week. My hunch is there has to be a nutrient present that is allowing it to grow that we don't test for ( at least this is my "hypothesis of the week" ). I had a pretty bad Valonia outbreak one time and this method brought it under control.
thanks, Chris

[DT's_Reef]

I'm sure tempted to drop some $$ on a batch of Marshall Island rock.... especially since my new 120 Lee Mar "polished glass" tank will arrive the first week of June.

[foggy54]

chris just wanted to know what your lite schedule is? on/off flour. and m/h lamps?

[fishdoc11]

foggy,
Right now I am acclimating new lamps. Long story but I had 2 XM's yellow out on me so I switched to Ushio. Anyway that could be contributing but the 55's having the same problem with VHO's. Normally I run the MH for 8 hrs and atinics for 10 hrs.

DT's,
That might help things. I can't do that because I have so many sps in the tank and I would have no place to put them while I was waiting for the rock to become stabilized. Have you tried massive water changes, the whole volume of the tank over several days?

thanks, Chris

[DT's_Reef]

No, I haven't done a total tank volume change. I did do 50% over two weeks (25% each weekend).

The thing that really gets me is that I'm even using Phosban in a reactor. In theory, the algae should be absolutely starved.

About 10 years ago, I had a decent hair algae problem that was the result of using polluted "Real Ocean" and as soon as I stopped using it, the hair algae literally melted away within week, and was fully cleaned up the next week.

Something in my system is continuously bleeding off nutrients to keep the algae going.

I have a 10 gallon refugium with a DSB, and it's the only place that doesn't have hair algae. There's not much macro in it, however.

My redox, on a newer Pinpoint controller/probe, is 470-510. Go figure.

[fishdoc11]

Yeah, I'm using Phosban also and my PO4 and NO3 are both 0. I agree that something has to be feeding it. I did my third consecutive 10 gal change and scraped part of the tank again today. I will keep doing this for a total of 70 gallons changed and all the algae removed, there will of course be little bits left. I'll let you know if it works.
Chris

[DT's_Reef]

So how did you catch and release that shark? Very cool picture.

What kind of shark is it?

[fishdoc11]

Thanks, it's a bull shark. I caught him using bonita as cut bait with a typical "shark fishing rig" similar to the ones the locals there use. I just dragged(drug?)him onshore and back in the water using the leader.
Chris

[rcmike]

Once Me, my father, and my brother were fishing for salt water trout and my brother cought a hammerhead about that size. The funny thing was that he was using one of those cheap Zebco closed faced reels. He was probably 10 or so.

[fishdoc11]

That's the great thing about fishing in the ocean. You never know what you might catch.
Chris

[DT's_Reef]

Out of curiosity I just bought a lawnmower blenny. Nothing like adding more bioload to solve a nutrient problem <g>. I'm curious to see if he actually eats hair algae.

I recall having the black version of the regular lawnmower blenny (same size/shape) about 10 years ago and recall that it actually would eat hair algae closely cropped to the rocks.

Oh, and I put a huge wide scrape on the rear quarter of my Infiniti G35 coupe from the damn garage frame coming back from the fish store!! (I have a double garage, but it's only one car width wide). First damage I've ever done to a car in 20 years!

[fishdoc11]

I would watch him pretty close. I've read some of them nip sps and some of them are model citizens. I know rcmike has one and it is a fat little algae eating fool. It is also in with alot of sps colonies and apparently behaves. Sorry about your car. These hair algae problems spill out into other parts of our lives LOL!
Chris

[DT's_Reef]

Thanks for the advice. I actually hadn't figured a lawnmower might nip SPS. I'll keep an eye on him.

One time my LFS had the most spectacular looking blenny I've ever seen. They called it a Sailfin Hawaiin Blenny. It was absolutely huge, and white with little groups of bright red polka dots all over it. Absolutely stunning. I asked what it ate and was told algae. I bought it, got home, put it in the tank, and then proceeded to get the online scoup on these guys. Turns out the real name is Leopard Blenny and their main diet is.... SPS!!

I looked over to my tank to see it happily munching on a stylophora, each swipe leaving bare skeleton. I then had to take apart the whole reef in order to catch him.

[fishdoc11]

I have a bicolor in my 55 (still haven't removed him ). I gradually started putting frags from the colonies in my 75 into my 55 to see how they would do. The Montiporas and hydnophoras do fine but the Acros keep their polyps in. The water params are fine so I wondered what was up. About a week ago I caught him nipping at the Acros. I put him in when I planned to keep it a softy tank and just forgot they are known to eat sps polyps in the wild. Those Leopard blennies are very cool, too bad they eat cool stuff too!
Chris

[DT's_Reef]

Well, the next two weeks will be a good test run for the lawnmower blenny in my current 90.

Since I'm going to transfer everything to the 120 soon, I can remove him at that time if needed. Hopefully he'll continue the good behavior.

[SRA4031]

I thought Tangs would eat hair algae. I have had a yellow tang in my tank for a couple of weeks, and a blue tang for a few days, and neither seems to be interested in the algae.

I have also had some probs for a weeks with green algae tint on some rocks and on my gravel. Phosphates, nitrates, and amoinia are 0. It seems it reaaly hits hard with the lights on, even after a couple of hours. I noticed Fosters said something about when it is time to replace bulbs it can cause algae. Any input

[cknox2]

Try getting a couple of huge turbo snails. Roberto has some nice ones at emerald bay. I have 2 in my 55 and they do a great job. I'll probably add a 3rd.

[SRA4031]

Yea, I got one already, but put him in my frag tank. I will get another one when I get my lawnmower bleenie from my guy.

[fishdoc11]

Tangs don't typically like Derbesia which is a very common hair algae. I'm pretty sure that's what I have. You definately need new bulbs Jason.
Chris

[jimwat]

I have been battling hair algae for some time. About the time I thought I my last outbreak was under control, I added some LR and moved some things around (stupid me), and BAMM!...right back in the the battle. Anyway, my experience has been that the best I can do is slow down the growth enough for my LM Blenny and my cleanup crew (includes mexican turbos and emerald crabs) to get a handle on it. As, my present bloom is starting to subside, I think I will make it a point this time to not make any major changes for a while.

One note on the LM Blennies - It may be a variation in the species, but I have found that some of these are better at eating hair algae than others. My first LM would eat about anything I threw in the tank, and only occasionally picked at the algae. The one I have now (which seems to be more common) will only eat algae off of the rocks. The problem with this is that once the algae is under control, the LM may starve. In an attempt to try to save my LM I started adding some prepared greens to the tank (Seaweed Selects). It took over 2 weeks before the LM warmed up the to the SS, but now it goes after it pretty greedily. Anyway, it is probably best to make sure that your LM will eat prepared foods before all of the hair algea is gone.

[SRA4031]

Thanks for the insight. Will keep that in mind.

Is that you on the avatar. LOL (bet you have not heard that one a dozen times)

[jimwat]

Is that you on the avatar. LOL Yes!! And the fish in my hand is a damsel that was terrorizing my tank! (Well, the picture is a pretty good depiction of how I felt anyway) :D

[SRA4031]

Amen to that. I do not know what was more aggravating, the problems with the damsels, or getting them out. They may be good to cycle a tank, but next time I will use a hang on the back breeder tank.

[DT's_Reef]

FWIW, increasing my photoperiod from 7 to 9 hours a day seems to be helping the algae issue. At least my SPS are responding favorably.

[DT's_Reef]

Double post

[SRA4031]

You are only running lights 9 hours a day?

I have always heard 10-12 hrs.

[DT's_Reef]

I've actually heard anywhere from 6-7 to 10-12, from reputable people in the industry.

Like everything in this hobby, I imagine it depends on a lot of other variables.

I certainly hope I don't need 10-12 because I'm in California and electricity is expensive!

[SRA4031]

:)

Well you know what they say, it is not what people tell you, it is what your coral tells you.

[jimwat]

The lighting on my tank is as follows:

NO 30 watt actinic - 12 hrs
VHO 192 watt actinic -10 hrs
MH 250 watt 10k - 8 hrs

Minor changes in these light do not seem to have a dramatic affect on algae growth (good or bad). However, the lighting on my refugium (130 watt PC 65k) does seem to make a much more noticable impact. So far, my best results have been with running the refugium lights 24/7.

[wharfrat48]

Gonna repost this (again) since it seems you all have some experience on the subject.

Sorry to hijack, but hopefully this is just a quick question: My tank has been finished with it's cycle for about a month and I have a HORRIBLE hair algae outbreak. I have not been too concerned because I was told to expect algae outbreaks for the first few months. Should I be actively combating the HA or will it take care of itself as I have been led to believe? I have a clean-up crew, fuge with cheato and thats about it. Yes, I use RO/DI water. No feeding. I dont understand where any nutrients can be coming from, except from the initial cycle. All water parameters are 0

Thanks

Rich

[DT's_Reef]

FWIW my set-up didn't have a speck of hair algae for about a year after being set-up, although I did have an attack of brown wafer macro. Go figure.

[fishdoc11]

Well I finished scrubbing all my rocks and siphoning all the gravel yesterday. It took a total of 6 days with 5 10 gallon water changes and 1 15 gallon change with a 2 day break in the middle to give it a rest. I ended up stressing out several corals in the process and have lost 2 large colonys and a couple of frags so far with another fragged to try and stop recession. I think adding and running phosban and carbon continuously on an established tank that was'nt used to it and then all the moving around and changing water was a little(or a lot) too much and threw my balance out of whack. Add to that 2 out of 3 new XM's yellowing out and finally going to Ushios with almost 2 months of total new bulb aclimation now and I think my tank is stressed(as is it's owner). I even cancelled going to IMAC because I would worry about my tank the whole time I was gone. I worry about it enough when I'm gone and it's doing well. One positive to all this is I found 2 large polycheate (Oenone fulgia I think) worms that are known for smothering and eating snails and burowing in clam shells. I took pics, one was 17"!!! Anyway I really hope all is settled out now and it works to keep the algae under control. Thanks for everyones help.
Chris

[SRA4031]

I found this thread on the subject. I do not think I would put that many Mexicans in a tank though.

http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=379115&highlight=algea

[fishdoc11]

Thanks Goldeneagle.

Chris

[jimwat]

I do not think I would put that many Mexicans in a tank thoughI agree. The mexicans that I have in my tank are 2 or 3 times the size off any other snail in the tank, a couple of them are as big as my conch (around 1 1/2"). Plus, they are bulldozers. I could not imagine 50 of those (I have 30 or 40 snails in my tank and only 6 of them are mexicans). I think that it would make a lot more sense to add enough snails to battle down an algae problem in 2 or 3 weeks (not 2 or 3 days).

[DT's_Reef]

Okay, here's a stupid question, are "Mexican" turbos different from other turbos?

I know when I go to my LFS, they usually have turbos that are absolutely huge, and are simply labeled "turbos".

However, I have a few turbos in my tank and they're much, much smaller, and they don't like to be on the rocks, but prefer to eat film algae off the acrylic. These were also called "turbos".

[SRA4031]

Mexican turbos are bigger, and is a BIG algae eater. Get too many and they will really clean your tank, coralline as well.

They also help remodel your tank by knocking your coral over. LOL

[jimwat]

The mexicans I have are these http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?siteid=23&pCatId=571. But I have seen astrea snails at the LFS labled as turbos.

[DT's_Reef]

Originally posted by goldeneagle
Mexican turbos are bigger, and is a BIG algae eater. Get too many and they will really clean your tank, coralline as well.

They also help remodel your tank by knocking your coral over. LOL

I have nothing but SPS, so everything is either grown over the rock, glued or epoxied. Plus, my rocks are very large as the ones in my former reef were small, and I grew tired of rock slides.

I'll throw a few in to see what they do out of curiosity. Thanks.

[tjdarla]

goldeneagle has a good point about adding that many snails to my tank but when you are starting to loose most of your sps corals to the hair algae some times you have to what ever you can. I had removed most of the snails and sold them to the LFS I only kept what I think my 55gal would need. I did do all of the other things that everybody on reef central told my to do first. I even removed my sand bed and will never put it back so easy to keep the tank bottom clean now :)
Good luck and I hope you get through this fast dont give up try anything you never know what will work for your tank
Later Tom

[DT's_Reef]

Originally posted by tjdarla
goldeneagle has a good point about adding that many snails to my tank but when you are starting to loose most of your sps corals to the hair algae some times you have to what ever you can.....


No kidding! It's absolutely amazing how much money hair algae can end up costing.

I'm replacing all my rock with my new 120g that's coming next week. A bit extreme, but I like Marshall Island rock anyway so I figured it was a "good" excuse to fork out the money for it and start fresh. This is my first true hair algae problem in 13 years of reefkeeping and it's really got me stumped. The primary difference in this setup is that I have a 1/2" sandbed, whereas before I always had a bare bottom tank.

[SRA4031]

I hear Fiji is not as good as a choice as some thinks, is this cause of Algae. Noticed you refered to Marshal Island rock.

[tjdarla]

I know that when I removed my 1" sand bed my tank started to clear up some. I think that all the sand was doing was holding in the nitrite and phospate because that is where the hair algae would start to grow after I would scrub my rock every week for 2 months. That was a job, hope I dont have to do that again.
Maybe you should think about barebottom again?

[rcmike]

I know some people don't like ozone but that is what cleared mine up. I used a very low dosage of course. You could tell a big difference in the clarity of the water in just a few hours. The hair algae and cyano started to die back in a week. I now have it run 2 hours at night and it keeps the tank algae free and the corals have never looked better.

[DT's_Reef]

I also used ozone, in conjunction with an ORP controller, and the corals perked up a bit, the water became crystal clear immediately, any diatom algae quickly died.

But my hair algae flourished....

I have no doubt ozone worked for you, but I guess it can depend on the source of the problem.

[fishdoc11]

tjdarla,
Where did you order your snails from?
Chris

[tjdarla]

I got them here. best price I found on the net just make sure that the shipper that they use will ship to your address
http://www.wctropicalmarine.com/

[tjdarla]

fishdoc11, just make sure if you buy alot of snails that you can get rid of them when they get to job done. or they will start to die and you will have a bigger problem. At the price that west coast sells them for you can get full credit from a LFS it didnot coast me any thing for my snails just the ones I wanted to keep ;)

[fishdoc11]

Thanks for the URL.
Chris

[fishdoc11]

Well I recieved 250 snails from EC Tropical Marine yesterday. I split them between my 2 tanks and they went to work immediately. There seems to be very limited mortality but I will know more about that within 10 days(most stressed snails will die off within 10-11 days). I am very happy with my purchase and want to thank tjdarla once again for the link and goldeneagle for posting that thread. I am crossing my fingers and hoping for the best.
Chris

[tjdarla]

good luck fishdoc11 with the snails hope it works out for you
it's been about 18 days that the snails have been in my tank and it is as clean as the day I set it up.

[cee]

I've been reading this thread, and trying to help a few others out in TN with algae problems. Has anyone given any consideration to temperature? Most problems I've seen in the past with algae result from increased temperature, all other factors being the same. In Dallas I had problems until I got a chiller, and no problems since. Just another variable to think about.

Dave

[fishdoc11]

This tank has been running for almost 3 years with no problems. The temp stays 79-81 in the summer. I have figured out the XM bulbs I had yellow out on me started it. I have read the same thing has happened in other peoples established tanks with the XM bulbs going bad.
thanks, Chris

[DT's_Reef]

I solved my hair algae problem, finally, by turning off my CA reactor. I imagine excess CO2 must have been getting into the system.

[fishdoc11]

Glad to hear you figured it out DT's reef. Now I guess keeping calcium up is the next step lol! Good luck with that.
Chris

[DT's_Reef]

Thanks. I'm going to run the reactor effluent through a second chamber to get rid of excess CO2.

[tjdarla]

Any update on the snails fishdoc11 are they starting to wipe out the algae in your tank

[fishdoc11]

They seem to be doing the job. Thanks for asking.
Chris

[danieljames]

Originally posted by goldeneagle
:)

Well you know what they say, it is not what people tell you, it is what your coral tells you.

soooooooooooooo true

[fishdoc11]

Well the algae in my 55 seems to be under control. The algae in my 75 is another story. I have all but determined that it is my sandbed releasing nutrients that is causing it. Even though PO4 tests <0.03 and nitrates are <5 there are other things we can't test and these must be the cause plus I would like PO4 and nitrate to be lower, close to 0 although I know true 0 is not achievable. I didn't make the sandbed deep enough to start with, about 2". Then about 2 years later I added about an inch of sand about 2 months before the algae started. The only thing I can figure is that this trapped detritus in the wrong part of the bed to be processed. Anyway I am hoping that more aggressive carbon use, a small fuge and automated kalkwaser topoff along with the transition to my 90(removal of old sandbed) will fix this. I plan to add ozone if these don't quite do it. Now I just can't decide whether to go with a 3.5" sandbed or barebottom with starboard in the 90. Any suggestions on sandbeds from personal experience? Another unusual aspect to all this is I can't keep turbo snails alive, every other kind of snail does fine, just not turbos. Anyway my skimmer, sump, closed loop and tank have all been tested with water in them and the only thing left to do is build a cabinet for my topoff container, recirc pump and ballasts. I'm headed to Home Depot today.
thanks, Chris

[reewik]

Speaking from experience a barebottom tank resulted in no algea problems for me. On the other hand I have a 1/2 inch sanbed in my 42 hex and have had minimal problems related to algea...(so far) I prefer the look of sand cause it looks really natural. As far as the snails go that is crazy. I cannot keep emerald crabs alive in my tank, go figure?

Good luck with the cabinet. I think I heard you say a Capenter by profession one time in your life. It should be no problem.

[gflat65]

I'm a huge fan of sand beds. I have always had one, so I don't have any experience with no bed. The main algae problem I have experienced is the bubble algae issues, which seem to have gone into remission since moving the tank. I mixed some old Seaflor with some new Southdown and some other other sugar sized sand (that's been with me since the beginning ~8yrs.) My tank cycled almost over night after adding the old sand (threw out the old clumped and black sand). I have always had at least 3", usually more in my tanks. I've not had any major problems with my sand bed(s), but from what I have read, some should have been expected at some point. The new tank has only been set up for about two and a half months, so problems in it may be down the road (but hopefully not).

The guy that got me into reefs had a problem with turbo snails, too. He could put anything else in his tank (we never tried sps back then though) and it would do great, except for the turbos. We never figured it out.

[fishdoc11]

Thanks guys,
Well I got the cabinet built even though Home Depots rip saw was 1/16" off in 4'. The guy also cut one piece 1/16' too long and another 1/8" too long. I could have done better with my skill saw. At first I was p***d but I just did alot of sanding and called the store and told them they might want to adjust it. It's done now with one coat of primer and doesn't look that bad for a one day job that started with lumber that was cut wrong. Getting closer all the time. Gotta get this tank up before this baby gets here.
thanks, Chris

[imsqueak]

Here's my 300G BB.
http://reefcentral.com/gallery/data/500/35995Aqua-scaped.JPG

I had/have hair algae but not the cyano that I had when I set up my 55. I have 250 clean-up on order from WC (the link provided earlier).
65 astrea,
150 Cirith
29 Margaritas
15 red legs

Getting the rock to stop spitting out sand is the only problem but I hear it lasts 2-4 months.

I do have plenium and 4-5" dsp in my 55 still and I agree it looks more natural. I recently got a chuke and the sand has never looked better. There were always signs of cyano waiting for me to let the paramiters fall, but now it's really clean looking.

[cee]

Got two cukes, and they are awesome for maintaining the sand. Sand doesn't cake, no cyano, little "sand" cuke turds every morning which break down promptly. Also, I've read the enzymes in their stomachs break down the "sand" into Ca and Mg. Some worry about them polluting the tank if they die or get stressed, but nothing hassles them and they stay on the sand.

[fishdoc11]

Thanks imsqueak and Dave,
I am leaning in the sandbed direction if only for aesthetic reasons. I think a couple of tigertails(or ones in the same genus) would work well. I have actually thought about getting a cuke or two for quite a while just haven't done it. The wife also doesn't like the look of barebottom. Another thing is I will move this tank in 2-3 years and will have to remove the sandbed then anyway so it going bad again shouldn't be an issue.

You tank is looking good imsqueak. Is that starboard on the bottom?

thanks, Chris

[reewik]

imsqueak


Your aquascape is awsome. That will look very natural.

[imsqueak]

Chris,

Yes, from US Plasics. It's just cheap 1/4" since my glass is 3/4" it's basically bullet proof. I've already had several rocks tumble while cleaning out the sand spit up. 15# rock falling over is no problem.

Eric, thanks. I like it, but it's gonna become 4 islands after I get rid of 2 big table coral looking rocks. They just gather poop and have to be blown out daily. They are going to an ETRC member for his sump.

[DT's_Reef]

I recently set-up a new 120g SPS tank (upgraded my existing 90) and instead of putting an inch or two of sand in, I put 1/2" of very large crushed coral (largest size I could find). It's been running a bit over a month and so far so good.

What I like about it is when I do a water change, it's easy to clean the gravel with a clear plastic gravel cleaning cylinder since it's too heavy to be siphoned up the tube.

I figure I get most of the benefit of a barebottom, but also the aesthetic of gravel.